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Seven Basic Plots Of Harry Potter, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle |
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 Aug 1 2006, 10:16 AM
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Official Singer of the Sorting Hat Song
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Location: Lost in Hermione's beaded bag
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Okay, just to be difficult, have you heard there are only Seven Basic Plots in literature? According to Christopher Booker, there are only seven basic plots and he names them: 1. Overcoming the Monster, 2. Rags to Riches, 3. The Quest, 4. Voyage and Return, 5. Rebirth, 6. Comedy and 7. Tragedy. This is all in his book The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories.
Okay, I'm more amused by this, but people do like to explore things and I'm a bit bemused at the theory that the seven protections of the Stone in the first book hold the secret to the plots of all the Harry Potter books. So I thought I'd give this an airing.
I think Philosopher's Stone is the Rags to Riches story. Harry Potter, poor unloved orphan boy, discovers he's magical, famous, and rich. And he has a series of adventures that end happily.
Chamber of Secrets is definitely Overcoming the Monster. And there are several monsters in CoS: the basilisk, Aragog, and the Riddle diary.
Prisoner of Azkaban is to my mind Voyage & Return. It begins with Harry's flight from Privet Dr. There's a journey into the past, a return to the future, and a trip to Hogsmeade.
Goblet of Fire is Rebirth. For obvious reasons. But it also marks the rebirth of the trio as sexual beings. Even the three tasks contain images of birth: a golden egg, friends pulled from the water, and maze with life & death at its centre.
Now, things get a bit complicated.
I see Order of the Phoenix as The Quest. You might think it would be book seven with all those horcruxes. But I think The Lost Prophecy is the grail here and both Harry & Voldemort are seeking it.
Half Blood Prince is the Tragedy. The saddest book in the series.
And where does this leave the final book? Comedy??? Yes, I'm inclined to think it will be. O, yes, Harry will confront Snape, learn the truth, and defeat Voldemort. But I'm betting the book will be funnier and lighter than HBP. I think Harry will be guided by the goatish barman Aberforth, who sounds like he'll be rather comical. There will be Fleur & Bill's wedding. And --as long as Harry doesn't get himself killed-- a double wedding at the end: Hermione & Ron, Harry & Ginny.
Of course, I'm not too attached to any of this. But it is an amusing line of inquiry. And I've always been surprised by the direction JKR has taken. I think we're all expecting a grim hunt and battle in book seven. It would take me completely by surprise if it were a bit more chaotic and absurd-- even farcical. Afterall, we could all use a few more laughs right now.
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Come the words that bubble
Up through broken laughter,
Sweeter than spring-water,
"Gods, I am so happy!"
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Aug 1 2006, 03:22 PM
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Guest Speaker at Flourish and Blotts
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QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 1 2006, 03:16 PM) [snapback]900318[/snapback]
I see Order of the Phoenix as The Quest. You might think it would be book seven with all those horcruxes. But I think The Lost Prophecy is the grail here and both Harry & Voldemort are seeking it.
Very nice topic, davidenglish!
For me Order of the Phoenix is the Tragedy. Harry's mistake had tragical conequences-death of Sirius was a tragical final of his life.
QUOTE Half Blood Prince is the Tragedy. The saddest book in the series.
Here, I see the beginning of the Quest - Horcrux quest of course. The second and the last part of it will be shown in the last book, in my opinion.
QUOTE And where does this leave the final book? Comedy??? Yes, I'm inclined to think it will be. O, yes, Harry will confront Snape, learn the truth, and defeat Voldemort. But I'm betting the book will be funnier and lighter than HBP. I think Harry will be guided by the goatish barman Aberforth, who sounds like he'll be rather comical. There will be Fleur & Bill's wedding. And --as long as Harry doesn't get himself killed-- a double wedding at the end: Hermione & Ron, Harry & Ginny.
In every book we might find some funny scenes and characters that provide much needed comical relief...but I can't imagine the last book, where the evil is defeated by love (at least I hope so) as a comedy.
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Aug 1 2006, 03:40 PM
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Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor
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Hmmmm, interesting premise, davidenglish. I haven't read the book, but it sounds intriguing. Your application of the seven basic plots to the Harry Potter books is a great starting point for discussion.
I agree with your interpretation of the plots for PS, COS and GOF. The books seem tailor-made for these plotlines. GOF especially, as it has the double theme of "rebirth" (Voldie) and "coming of age" (Harry's ascent from boyhood into manhood via his "interest" in Cho).
I think some of the books can also fit with plots, but maybe not the ones you ascribed to them. POA, HBP and OOTP come to mind. Assuming the "hero" is always Harry in all the stories, we could look at other groupings.
One of your links is a critique of the book. The reviewer has this to say about the theme of tragedy:
QUOTE Only in the seventh plot type, Tragedy, he observes, is there a deviation from this fundamental pattern. Here, the hero or heroine also goes on a journey, but is "held back by some fatal flaw or weakness from reaching that state of perfect balance," he writes. "They are doomed to fall short of the goal because in some way they are stuck in a state of incompleteness or immaturity."
I'm not sure this plot type applies to HBP. Although the ending is very sad, it's Dumbledore who fell short of his goal, not Harry. For discussion's sake, let's say "Tragedy" doesn't quite fit HBP. Does it fit another book?
I think it might be applicable to OOTP. Harry has demonstrated many flaws in this book - quick temper, not thinking things through and "inconsistent" interpretation of his visions. In his haste to get to the Ministry of Magic to save Sirius, he misinterprets what he thinks he "saw" and inadvertently dooms Sirius. Or at least Harry fails in his goal to save Sirius.
Does "The Quest" fit a book? Let's see...would it fit HBP? Yes, I think so. One of the underlying themes of the book is the effect the Half-Blood Prince has on Harry through the potion book, and Harry's eventual success at learning the Prince's identity. Another theme is Harry learning more about the person who was Tom Riddle, and another is Harry discovering that Voldie's creation of horcruxes was the reason why Voldemort did not die when his AK curse rebounded off baby Harry. Harry had a lot of searching to do in HBP and he found most of what he was looking for. So "The Quest" could apply to HBP.
If we think of "comedy" in the Shakespearean sense (i.e. a happy ending) then many of the HP books could be classified as "comedies". One in particular seems to stand out a little more than the others - POA. Although the Dementors are pretty scarey, they aren't really the focus of the book. There are numerous amusing incidents - Aunt Marge-balloon, the Knight Bus, Marauder's Map, trips to Hogsmeade, Buckbeak, the Boggart in Lupin's class and so on. There are quite a number of happy endings - winning the Quidditch Cup and, most important, Harry getting to know Sirius and learning that he is innocent. So perhaps we could put POA into the "comedy" slot.
That leaves "Voyage and Return", which might apply to Book 7. If we think of Harry's "voyage" as a spiritual one rather than a physical one, he will have to "return" from his confrontation with Voldemort. We don't know if he will return as a better person, as a harmed person (i.e. like Frodo at the end of LOTR) or in a pine box, but he definitely will return.
This is an interesting concept. If anyone has the book, it would really be helpful to know more about Booker's plots and the books he ascribes to them. Might have to buy the book.... 
(edited by me to correct typos)
This post has been edited by Irene Adler: Aug 1 2006, 03:41 PM
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"She has the face of the most beautiful of women, and the mind of the most resolute of men."
(Sir Arthur Conan Doyle: Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia)
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Aug 1 2006, 04:22 PM
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Official Singer of the Sorting Hat Song
Posts: 6,422
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Well, you've given me much to think about Irene Adler and You_won't_know_who.
I don't have the book at hand, but here's the London Times review of the book.
When I say comedy, I think of something such as Mozart's Magic Flute. Or, as Booker thinks, Fielding's Tom Jones or the novels of Jane Austen.
I can't help feeling, after the bleakness of HBP, the final book will be filled with reconciliations, misunderstandings cleared up, shocking revelations, and rather unconventional turns. Voldemort fears "ignominious death"; so the more farcical the better.
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Come the words that bubble
Up through broken laughter,
Sweeter than spring-water,
"Gods, I am so happy!"
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Aug 1 2006, 04:35 PM
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Director of Nicholas Flamel Laboratories
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Very interesting idea, davidenglish. However, maybe each of the 7 Basic Plots don't have to correspond to a book? I have to agree with Irene Adler on the Voyage and Return one, though. I think that one is for Book 7, while HBP is the Quest. The one that's throwing me is the Comedy; I don't see any of the books as a comedy, really. There is humor injected throughout each of the books.
How about this. Could each of the basic 7 plots take place over the course of a single book? That might get us somewhere, too.
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"Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had."--Michael Crichton
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Aug 1 2006, 06:14 PM
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Stargazing on the Astronomy Tower
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Location: Astronomy Tower
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I agree Arianhrod in that the books may contain a equal balance of the 7 plot types, I think better stories do well by having mixture of these plots as opposed to just one. If this were true we should look at the begining to see the 7 plots.
1) Overcoming the Monster: PS (Fluffy the Cerebrus), COS (Basilisk), POA (Dementors), GOF (Dragons, Spinx, Acromantual, Skwert), OOTP (Here we get tricky, the Thestrals were tame, perhaps in this instance it's Harry's own temper that must be mastered?), HBP (Infeiri? Or the monster in his chest aka Jealousy)
2. Rags to Riches: This in a way happens each time he goes back to Privet Drive and then returns to Hogwarts. He loses thoes freedoms and luxaries he had at the school and has to wait through the Summer living in less then what he had.
3. The Quest: This one is harder to apply to all the books but here's my effort; POS (Finding out about Flamel), COS (the forbbiden Forest with the car, investigating the Heir), PoA (Quidditch School Cup), GoF (Tri-Wizard Cup), OOTP (Quest for the Truth?), HBP (Horcruxes as mentioned before)
4. Voyage and Return: Isn't this almost the same as Quest? PS (through the trap door and over the obstacles we go..), CoS (the Chamber), POA (Shrieking Shack), Gof (Graveyard), OOTP (Ministry of Magic), HBP (The Cave)
5. Rebirth: PS (Can't think of anything... ), CoS (the Chamber being reopened? On the Reading Corner we figured that the Car died and came to life from the Whomping Willow), PoA (Peter, thought to be dead and "returned"), Gof (Voldemort), OOTP (The Order of the Pheonix, reformed and brought back to Fight LV), HBP (War is officaly broken out, I know it's weird to say War is reborn)
6. Comedy: As been stated this is all through out the series to lighten the mood, to make a balance in the story. From the Durselys to the Weasley twins comedy is rampant through out.
7. Tragedy: PS (James and Lily die, Sirius jailed, Remus loses all his friends, Harry has to live with the Dursley's), CoS (Ginny's illusions and innocence about Hogwarts shattered? Sorry that's the only permant bad thing I can think of...), PoA (Peter escapes and Sirius on the run). GoF (Cedric dying), OOTP (Sirius Dying), HBP (DD dying).
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Aug 1 2006, 10:17 PM
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Buying a Half-Kneazle
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QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 1 2006, 10:16 AM) [snapback]900318[/snapback]
Half Blood Prince is the Tragedy. The saddest book in the series.
And where does this leave the final book? Comedy??? Yes, I'm inclined to think it will be. O, yes, Harry will confront Snape, learn the truth, and defeat Voldemort. But I'm betting the book will be funnier and lighter than HBP. I think Harry will be guided by the goatish barman Aberforth, who sounds like he'll be rather comical. There will be Fleur & Bill's wedding. And --as long as Harry doesn't get himself killed-- a double wedding at the end: Hermione & Ron, Harry & Ginny.
Tragedy does not necessarily mean tears in the same way that comedy does not mean laughter. Example: There is nothing remotely humorous in Dante's Divine Comedy...it's all about structure. After hunting online for a while I turned up these two diagrams of the more "accepted" structures...
For tragedy, click here.
Notice that there is an upturn in the action before things start to go wrong....starting from a neutral point, something has to go right so that when it all goes downhill the reader/audience feel like something has been taken from them. In Romeo and Juliet, there is a wedding and "love" to feel good about before it all goes terribly terribly wrong.
Alternately, there is comedy, which is just the opposite...starting from that same neutral point, something goes wrong at first so that the successful resolution is actually significant. Take Finding Nemo...the mother dies and Nemo is kidnapped before anything really starts to get better. The reunion is made poignant by the initial loss.
Applied to the Potter books, I would argue that the first three books follow the comedy triangle...the bad is followed by a happier outcome. In the latter three, the height of positive emotion tends to precede the downfall. Further, in the first three there is a "rescue" of sorts, whereas the last three have failed rescues or "catastrophes"--the deaths of Cedric, Sirius, and Dumbledore.
The other plots--I think there are elements of Rags to Riches, Voyage and Return, and Overcoming the Monster (who could easily be Voldemort) appear in all of the books, for the reasons Shard stated.
I think we saw Harry's "Rebirth" in book one as he discovered his magic. Obviously, this returns in GoF with Voldemort. One could argue that Harry undergoes another rebirth when he accepts his role as "the Chosen One" in HBP, but I think we will see something further on this in the last book.
The series as a whole is The Quest.
Heavens, these are such subjective categories, aren't they? Just my thoughts...
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If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where do you expect to find it?
"The heart. Carbon-based primitive in a silicon world." -Jeannette Winterson
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Aug 3 2006, 12:04 PM
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes
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davidenglish you never cease to amaze me.
ive taken a different look at things though. as harry potter is a series, following him, lets look at it as whole, and all of the plot points pertain to him, instead of trying to put them in a single book, like Shard
and dark_mage and shard said.
1.overcoming the monster. well thats like the main plot of the whole series isnt it? i mean no we werent aware that harry had to destory voldemort until book 5, but he was the main enemy in the first three, and in the end we triumphed over him, so thats basically the point of all of them. but if we want to get deeper and look at it individually, then ok in the first one harry has quite a few monsters to overcome. fear is one, he showed many times, like nervousness over his first quiddicth match, not knowing what to expect at hogwarts, etc, and in the end he overcame voldemort. book two he overcame not being able to come back to hogwarts, everyone thinking he was the air of slytherin( i think the name of that monster is acceptance), and obviously he overcame the basilisk and aragog. book three, he overcame the monster of fear with the dementors, book for the tasks, you get the idea.
2.Rags to Riches. thats harrys whole story isnt it? from book one on he gets better and better, from being lonely harry to potter, to famous harry potter, through out the entire series. but individually, book one obviously he got taken away from there, book two he got kind of a second family with the weasleys, book 3 he found his godfather, and forth. like Shard said, it happens everytime he goes to and from the dursleys and school.
3.the quest. now this one is quite tricky, but one could look at it as through out the entire series, harry goes on the quest of finding out who he is, overcoming all the things thrown at him, and eventually destroying voldemort. individually, book 1 harry was on a quest of finding himself at hogwarts, fitting in a so forth, which continues to the second book, and by book 4 hes pretty got that handled, but then it sort of changes, and voldemorts back and the quest is different, as now he has to defeat him, and that carries on with finding the horcruxes and so forth.
4.voyage and return. from the beginning harry is on a voyage in his life, where things are crazy, someone always wants to murder him, and i think in the end, when all is said and done, his life will return to the quiet normalness it should be. individually, he goes on the voyage of hogwarts, and discovering who he is, and returned to where he started, but a new man. (or boy in this case. book 2, obviusly he goes on a voyage of learning about the chamber and so forth, and returns from it again different. book3 is a bit more personal, where he goes on the voyage of finding sirius black, and returns from it different. book 4 the voyage that is the triwizard tournament, book 5 the voyage that is the department of mysteries, and book 6 the voyage that is the cave.
5.Rebirth. throughout the whole books, from beginning to end, harry starts one way and comes back another. book 1 he started out at the dursleys all hope gone, well voila in the end be comes back a wizard. book two hes very unsure of himself, and voila comes back fully confident that his friends did not forget about him, and he does indeed belong in gryffindor. book 3 he comes back with a godfather, book4comes back having seen a tragedy, as in somene dying, book 5 he starts off all angry and annoying, but isnt soo towards the end, book6 he starts off still as he sort of ended in ootp, and at the end of book6 you see that he is very much a man now.
6.comedy. now this one is very difficult, but if we look at it like freyja said, then well the whole think is quite comedic, as eventually harry will defeat voldemort giving us the happy ending, and each of the individual books have their own happy ending in some way.
7.tragedy. well the story of harry is quite tragic, what with him being without parents and all, making it last throughout the seven books, and each book has its own tragedy. the story of quirell is tragic. myrtle was tragic, and in my opinion so was hagrids story in that book. sirius being unable to be proven not guilty was tragic, and in the next three obiously all the deaths were tragic.
soo all the plotlines are present in the series as a whole, and all over the place idividually.
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Aug 3 2006, 12:31 PM
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins
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QUOTE(Shard @ Aug 1 2006, 11:14 PM) [snapback]900791[/snapback]
1) Overcoming the Monster: PS (Fluffy the Cerebrus), COS (Basilisk), POA (Dementors), GOF (Dragons, Spinx, Acromantual, Skwert), OOTP (Here we get tricky, the Thestrals were tame, perhaps in this instance it's Harry's own temper that must be mastered?), HBP (Infeiri? Or the monster in his chest aka Jealousy)
OOTP I think the monster is probably Umbridge! She's pretty monstrous. There also Grawp - though he's a big softie really. CoS there is also Aragog.
QUOTE
2. Rags to Riches: This in a way happens each time he goes back to Privet Drive and then returns to Hogwarts. He loses thoes freedoms and luxaries he had at the school and has to wait through the Summer living in less then what he had.
There's also Dobby in CoS who goes literally from rags (living as a slave at Malfoy Manor) to riches (Harry frees him, and he ends up eventually (book 4) working at Hogwarts. Also Tom Riddle, the orphan boy becomes Lord Voldemort, most feared Dark Lord.
QUOTE
5. Rebirth: PS (Can't think of anything... ), CoS (the Chamber being reopened? On the Reading Corner we figured that the Car died and came to life from the Whomping Willow), PoA (Peter, thought to be dead and "returned"), Gof (Voldemort), OOTP (The Order of the Pheonix, reformed and brought back to Fight LV), HBP (War is officaly broken out, I know it's weird to say War is reborn)
PS - LV is sort of 'reborn' or at least given new life inside Quirrell's head and he also drinks the Unicorn blood.
HBP - Snape at the end is 'reborn' - free of having to stay shackled to Hogwarts, to go and help in 'The Quest'
QUOTE
7. Tragedy: PS (James and Lily die, Sirius jailed, Remus loses all his friends, Harry has to live with the Dursley's), CoS (Ginny's illusions and innocence about Hogwarts shattered? Sorry that's the only permant bad thing I can think of...), PoA (Peter escapes and Sirius on the run). GoF (Cedric dying), OOTP (Sirius Dying), HBP (DD dying).
You can also add HBP - Snape being branded a murderer. CoS - Hagrid being imprisoned in Azkaban (it was only for a couple of months, but even so)
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"The man who does not read books has no advantage over the man that can not read them"
Mark Twain
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