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Centaurs, Foreshadowing Clues in PS/SS

zubbaz View Member Profile	Jan 15 2007, 03:56 PM Post #1
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 127 Joined: 9:39am July 22, 2005 Location: here	what amused me in the philosophers stone was the centaurs , they read the planets and know the future but they choose not to interfere , here are somethings that caught my interest : 1-Ronan the centaur says : "Mars is unnusually bright tonight" . well Mars is the god of war, and on the same night (or the night after it i dont remember) harry fought LV for the first time . 2- Bane tells Ferinze : "we are swonr not to set ourselves against the heavens.have we not read what is to come in the movement of the planets?". this shows that the centairs know whats coming up , will ferinze help harry by telling him the future ?? 3-Firenze here says something strange :"the planets have been read wrong before now even by centaurs.i hope this is one of those times". does this mean that if Ferinze didnt tell harry that the stone was in the castle , LV would've rised and killed harry ??did he change the future? This post has been edited by fawkes28: Jan 19 2007, 08:09 PM -------------------- harry..dumbeldores man through & through

prodigy88 View Member Profile	Jan 15 2007, 04:05 PM Post #2
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 20 Joined: 3:03pm June 29, 2005 Location: On the knight bus	as we see in SS, firenze saves harry from voldemort. now firenze is at hogwarts, maybe JKR wa foreshadowing that firenze will be instrumental in the future. -------------------- Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

hermy-own-ninny View Member Profile	Jan 15 2007, 09:06 PM Post #3
Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 57 Joined: 1:39pm October 20, 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga.	I've been waiting to find a thread on the centaurs in SS. What I took away from that chapter was a very dark omen for Harry. The fact that Firenze probably saved Harry's life, but then was reprimanded for interfering by Bane IMO spells death for Harry in DH. They all alude to very dark and tragic things regarding Harry. When Firenze says that the stars have been read wrong before, I think he is trying to give Harry a vote of confidence. Sorry I don't have my book right in front of me, but I'll post more when I do. -------------------- Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean it is not real? "Just close your eyes, and keep your mind wide open."

Katessence View Member Profile	Jan 15 2007, 09:16 PM Post #4
Sundae-Nut-Chopper at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 923 Joined: 5:50pm August 19, 2005 Location: Canada eh!	QUOTE(hermy-own-ninny @ Jan 15 2007, 09:06 PM) [snapback]1065668[/snapback] I've been waiting to find a thread on the centaurs in SS. What I took away from that chapter was a very dark omen for Harry. The fact that Firenze probably saved Harry's life, but then was reprimanded for interfering by Bane IMO spells death for Harry in DH. They all alude to very dark and tragic things regarding Harry. When Firenze says that the stars have been read wrong before, I think he is trying to give Harry a vote of confidence. Sorry I don't have my book right in front of me, but I'll post more when I do. I could see it happening the way you explained it(very well I may add), however you could also see it as Harry can change his destiny, much like how Albus explained the prophecy. If Harry believed anything the Centaurs may see, then he could cause it to happen or change the course of things. It's all about choices. Something like that, I'm not sure if I've explained clearly enough? This post has been edited by Katessence: Jan 15 2007, 09:17 PM

Velse View Member Profile	Jan 15 2007, 10:55 PM Post #5
Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 235 Joined: 12:36pm October 25, 2006 Location: New Jersey	I think that in their way, the centaurs are as useless at fortune-telling as a certain professor I won't name here because she comes from a future book. In general, JKR's take on fortune-telling seems to be that when it works, it creates a false sense of inevitability. The only way to deal with it is to defy it, because you can avoid the predicted fate. But much of the evidence for this comes from what DD says in HBP. When I first read about Bane chastizing Firenze for trying to defy what was written in the stars, my thought was, "Go, Firenze!" I thought that Bane sounded like a sort of centaur-fundamentalist. The centaurs are proud and remote and not very likable, with the exception of Firenze, so it wasn't hard to dismiss Bane's opinion. -------------------- How will you learn if you don't read Scribbulus? Emily and Nina

Ladyofthelake View Member Profile	Jan 16 2007, 01:55 AM Post #6
Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 49 Joined: 3:41am January 3, 2007 Location: Bloemfontein, South Africa	Good thought with Mars and the god of war. Could it also have meant that Voldemort is growing stronger and a stand-off was inevitable? The fact that Firenze interfered with the scene might also mean that he believes what is written in the stars can change... as he also mentions the stars have been read wrong before. It also gives the sense that anyone can change his/her destiny as the future is not laid down in stones yet. Bit of topic, why was Firenze so horribly disformed in the movie? I thought centaurs was suppose to be beautiful. Any thoughts on that?

sandracl2 View Member Profile	Jan 19 2007, 11:30 AM Post #7
Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 47 Joined: 8:02pm December 28, 2006	I apologise for not having exact paragraphs and page numbers etc to hand as I'm at work without my book, but something really eerie struck me in PS. At the end of the chapter about the Forbidden Forest where Harry meets Voldemort drinking unicorn blood, Harry is complaining to Ron and Hermione about the Firenze's prediction that Voldemort would be back etc etc and he says something along the lines of ... <paraphrase> "They say I'm in mortal danger, They probably think I'm going to die as well, I suppose that's written in the stars too". <end paraphrase> (Anyone wishing to give exact quotes would be great) Now we know that their predictions about voldemort coming back were true but were they also foretelling Harrys death perhaps?? Harry's fleeting comment about his death being written in the stars would seem to be so directly related to the prophecy -none shall live while the other survives- that it just jumped off the page and really hit me. The fact that it was so fleeting as well, third last line or so of a chapter and pretty much not mentioned again just made me even more suspicious. Any thoughts?

Lomelindi View Member Profile	Jan 19 2007, 07:17 PM Post #8
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 114 Joined: 12:08am November 23, 2006 Location: Canada	Got the quote. Page 190 in my version, end of chapter 15. QUOTE '...he was talking about interfering with what the planets say is going to happen ... They must show that Voldemort's coming back ... Bane thinks Firenze should have let Voldemort kill me ... I suppose that's written in the stars as well.' It's possible that this IS what is 'written' in the stars, and that is why Bane is so angry about Firenze letting Harry know about any of this. Firenze makes a comment on the previous page that 'the stars have been read wrong before' and that he 'hopes this is one of those times.' So it's very possible that the centaurs have read Harry's death at Lord Voldemort's hand at some point. But let's keep in mind that Firenze's comment seems to indicate that foretelling is not always correct. So that could -also- be a prediction that Harry will live. I'm thinking that it's probably just a reference to Trelawney's prophecy, simply read from another source with a slightly different interpretation. -------------------- .•¨¯¨•.¸Lomelindi.•¨¯¨•.¸

HPPhoenix07 View Member Profile	Jan 19 2007, 09:49 PM Post #9
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 10:02pm January 2, 2007 Location: The Weasley's Backyard	The pages on my book (American Paperback) are 257-261. QUOTE "Remember Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens. Have we not read what is to come in the movement of the planets?" Not taking in consideration Harry's future specifically, the centaurs are certainly predicting events relating to the overall progress of the war, such as the rise of Voldemort again. But I think that if you add Harry's personal future to it, their reading of the planets becomes a bit more uncertain. As Lomelindi mentions: Firenze does say that "the planets have been read wrong before" and that this an indication that their predictions aren't always as reliable as most like to believe. Nevertheless, the centaurs clearly know things that no normal person would know. Firenze, however, hopes that the predictions never come to pass which means that they must have a terrible outcome that he hopes it never actually occurs. But I think that by recognizing that the predictions might be wrong to begin with, it demonstrates that there is clearly an alternative to such doomed future. After all, Dumbledore says in the Half-Blood Prince that the realization of prophesies and predictions is only the product of people choosing to follow them by not exercising their ability to go their own way. All in all, I don't think we know anymore about whether or now Harry will survive at the end. -------------------- "If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals" - Sirius Black

MarkPotter View Member Profile	Jan 19 2007, 10:15 PM Post #10
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 108 Joined: 4:20am November 16, 2006 Location: Ummmmm?	i think the centaurs believe that they are right and that they should be the only ones to know about the future and what it holds for the rest of the worlds races. -------------------- 21-7-07 Hufflepuff's Rule. Slytherins Don't. Accept It. Move On.