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Ethical, unethical, or somewhere in-between?, That is the question

fawkes28 View Member Profile	Jan 29 2007, 07:26 PM Post #1
Organizing the Halo Rebellion Posts: 3,214 Joined: 2:09pm April 16, 2006 Location: Being angelic, of course	In Chamber of Secrets, we see moral and ethical dilemmas throughout the book in many different ways and to varying degrees. Some examples are: Mr. Weasley owns a Ford Anglia that he charmed to make it fly. Technically, Mr. Weasley is not breaking any laws because he never intended to fly the car. However, his sons decided to fly the car to rescue Harry from the Dursley’s. In this situation, were any of the characters exhibiting unethical or immoral behavior? Later on, when Harry and Ron are stranded at King’s Cross, they use Mr. Weasley’s car to fly to Hogwarts. Were their actions ethical? Polyjuice Potion is first introduced in CoS when the Trio use it to become other people in order to figure out who was the Heir of Slytherin. In our society, stealing the identity of another person is highly unethical. However, in this situation, the Trio did not want anyone else in their school to get hurt or even killed. Therefore, can the use of the Polyjuice Potion in this situation be considered an ethical act? Gilderoy Lockhart is a character who has stolen people’s memories by putting a memory charm on them. He then takes credit for their actions in his best-selling books. Do you consider Lockhart’s actions to be ethical in any way? We are introduced to the word mudblood, which means dirty blood. It is a term used for those students who are muggle-born, like Hermione. What do you think of the use of this word and how it ties into our discussion of ethics? Let’s examine these issues as well as any other issues from Chamber of Secrets that you want to bring up in terms of their morality and ethics. This post has been edited by fawkes28: Jan 30 2007, 07:26 PM -------------------- The Quest Books We will NOT be swayed by a halo draggin', eye batting Phoenix!!! ~DMD

SoonerGryffindor View Member Profile	Feb 1 2007, 07:12 PM Post #2
WeasleyCast's Hostess With The Mostest Posts: 6,606 Joined: 2:44am February 20, 2006 Location: At The Burrow taking cooking lessons from Molly	Okay, I might get some people disagree with me here, but I really don't find anything wrong with Arthur enchanting the car and its not because he wrote a loophole in the law. Arthur is by nature curious and somewhat of an inventor. He charmed it to fly because that's the type of thing that he does. Its Fred, George and Ron taking the car and flying it by themselves that I have a bit of a problem with. A bit..... not too much really though. I wouldnt even call Harry and Ron taking the car and flying it unethical. Incredibly stupid -- yes, unethical -- no. -------------------- This Episode is so big, we needed Hermione's beaded bag WeasleyCast.Com

Carlotta Pinksto... Carlotta Pinkstone View Member Profile	Feb 1 2007, 07:39 PM Post #3
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 33 Joined: 10:41pm January 8, 2007	The topic question has kind of a spectrum to it, from things more innoncent to things more unethical in the order they appear. I don't think anything was wrong with Arthur making the car fly, they have brooms that fly, what really is the difference? And Fred, George, and Ron took the car to in a way to save Harry. He was being mistreated and they were being good friends to come and get him. It's not as if they took the car to purposefully do something mischevious. Harry and Ron took polyjuice potion in the hopes of stopping the heir of slytherin and saving people from being attacked. The was no real risk to anyone but themselves for doing so. Imposters later in the series take it to cause harm, this of course is wrong. Lockarts actions were completely selfish and awful to say the least. He stole a piece of people's lives from them, and claimed their achievements as his own. I can find nothing good in that. However the ministry employs people to do kind of the same thing. Obliviators erase muggles memories of magic, and it is within the law to do so. They are protecting their way of life I suppose, I don't always see why this is necessary though (just look up my screename on the lexicon). So I suppose what I'm getting at is that most of these things are situational. If they are being done for the sake of others than they are ethical, if done for personal gain they are immoral.

scollins View Member Profile	Feb 1 2007, 10:20 PM Post #4
Firebolt-Polisher at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 1,049 Joined: 2:51pm August 28, 2006 Location: Training to be a Quidditch referee.	QUOTE(fawkes28 @ Jan 29 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]1080553[/snapback] Polyjuice Potion is first introduced in CoS when the Trio use it to become other people in order to figure out who was the Heir of Slytherin. In our society, stealing the identity of another person is highly unethical. However, in this situation, the Trio did not want anyone else in their school to get hurt or even killed. Therefore, can the use of the Polyjuice Potion in this situation be considered an ethical act? What with Polyjuice Potion, Love Potion, Animagus, Metamorphagus, Veritaserum, Etc. it is a wonder wizards are able to trust each other at all. As far as Polyjuice being ethical, I don't see it as much different from being undercover. Police disguise themselves all the time in order to catch criminals in the act. Just like all ethics questions, it comes down to intent. -------------------- The Downstairs Drawing Room Do you want to discuss Deathly Hallows in a private reading room? Click here to sort yourself into Edinburgh Castle!

Kneazly View Member Profile	Feb 2 2007, 05:52 AM Post #5
Junior Dishwasher at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 611 Joined: 4:15pm March 6, 2006 Location: In front of the computer, reading Reading Group posts	Harry, Ron, Hermione, Fred and George are all being teenagers--act first, think later. Their intentions are good, which makes their actions maybe stupid, and definitely rule-breaking, but not unethical. Arthur's actions in enchanting the car are somewhat more problematic. The car incident reminds me of the biting teacups mentioned somewhere (sorry, I can't remember where), which were never intended to fall into Muggle hands but did so and caused problems. Arthur may never have intended to fly the car, but the possibility of problems should have been clear to him, as an adult responsible for his actions. Again, though, while I think enchanting the car comes close to breaking the law, I'm not sure it's actually unethical. Unethical actions, to me, involve not only intent to break a law, but intent to harm other people or put them at risk, even if only minimally. Lockhart's actions do cause harm. Other memory charms, for example at the World Cup, are used to protect the recipient/protect the Magical community, and thus have a legitimate purpose. Lockhart is, essentially, stealing when he uses the charm. Clearly unethical. -------------------- Thanks to Mrs HalfBloodPrince! PS: Room 101; CoS: The Corner Cafe; PoA: Suite 13; GoF: Chamber 007;OotP:Chamber 29; DH:The Dragons' Den

lydsr View Member Profile	Feb 2 2007, 06:29 AM Post #6
Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 277 Joined: 7:58am January 9, 2007	oh, the ethical/not ethical thread... fun! to go with the list in the OP the car - the book does make it quite clear that what Arthur has done is at least very close to the law, at worst breaking the law. we are not really given the entire information on that. we are told tho that enchanting muggle artifacts is agains the law, this comes up in later books as well. and he did this... and if he never intended to fly it, why bother... im always fascinated by things like that... why do something like that and then claim you never intended to use it... by build a kit car if you dont intend to drive it. but it seems a little close to the law for a 'to see if i could' action... its like 'well i made that bomb to see if i could' but didnt take it apart afterwards... if his intention really was to just see if he could why not remove the enchantment afterwards.... as for harry and ron then taking it to school... they are 12 at this point... but ron has already been scolded by his mother for doing it previously. i can understand that they want to get to school but they know that its not a good thing to fly it. at the least its a really really stupid thing to do. polyjuice potion... ok... my view on this is kind of swung by later books... while GOF shows the damage it can do, they are taught about it in OOTP and it even comes up in their OWL exams... so it is obviously something the school feels is OK to teach them... however... to do this they do have to steal... and again im not into telling children that breaking such commandments under any circumstances is OK. GOD did not say 'thou shalt not steal, unless its to find out if Draco is the heir of Slytherin' im not bothered about the boys being in the girls bathroom, i really dont have an issue with that... its not like they went in there to 'watch the girls' it is kind of portrayed as another room, as its not used by the girls cos of moaning myrtle... the lyds jury is still out on this one really... i would call it unethical, but i would call it unwise i think... stealing, deception, plus it does go wrong... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ok whats next lockhart. what a price idiot... and yes, i would call him, in this book, unethical thro and thro... deception, wiping peoples minds, making money from it... evil? no i wouldnt say evil. unethical tho... yes, i would say unethical... he's also a prize pratt who gets his come-up-ance... (i love that word) then of course there is the issue or harry and ron again, being out of the common room when they are told they should stay there, for their own safety as much as anything... going into the forest etc! then there is mr malfoy, but i would not say that what he does is unethical oh, i forgot about 'mudblood'. yes, to me, thats unethical.. i view it as wizarding racism... and i 'hate' racism! and at best this is what it is... these are my views... -------------------- www.ljrjewellery.com

luna_sparkle View Member Profile	Feb 2 2007, 08:39 AM Post #7
Gringott's Security Goblin Posts: 3,781 Joined: 3:19pm November 27, 2006 Location: UK	It was foolish of Ron and Harry to take the car beause it risked exposure and they were careless, but it wasn't like they did it with a bad intention. I don't have a problem with Mr. Weasley enchanting the car. If he was careful not to expose its 'other' qualities to the Muggle world I don't see the issue....but he should keep it locked away from the kids! The Polyjuice Potion can be use ethically and unethically. Ron and Harry used it in an ethical way becasue they were trying to protect the Muggleborns of the school. It can be used unethically, such as with Moody, but its your intention that makes it right or wrong. Gilderoy Lockhart's actions were completely unethical. All his actions were for personal gain and they harmed people in the process. 'Mudblood' is a clear example of human ignorance and the stupidity of prejudice. Hermione is clearly more clever than Malfoy but his judgment is clouded by his prejudice and he cannot see 'with' or 'wizard' without adding their blood into the equation. This ignorance is harming people and adds to the divisions in the Wizarding World. -------------------- The signature pic is credit to theonlysong and given to me by Ioli.

celestinafan View Member Profile	Feb 2 2007, 11:10 AM Post #8
Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 234 Joined: 2:05pm December 22, 2006 Location: Takin' the A Train	QUOTE(luna_sparkle @ Feb 2 2007, 09:39 AM) [snapback]1085146[/snapback] It was foolish of Ron and Harry to take the car beause it risked exposure and they were careless, but it wasn't like they did it with a bad intention. I'm with you, luna_sparkle. They're kids and they simply weren't thinking. You can't call that unethical. It was funny how the other kids thought it was "cool." In the muggle world, if a twelve year old took his parent's car for a ride, I'm sure his friends would be just as impressed (and his parents would be even more horrified). I agree with Kneazly on the car issue. When Arthur came home after the twins, Ron, and Harry had already faced Molly's wrath, the exchange went like this: "Your sons flew that car to Harry's house and back last night!" shouted Mrs. Weasley. "What have you got to say about that, eh?" "Did you really? said Mr. Weasley eagerly. "Did it go all right? I - I mean," he faltered as sparks flew from Mrs. Weasley's eyes, "that - that was very wrong, boys - very wrong indeed..." Clearly Mr. Weasley was hoping his car worked, and part of him probably knew that his twins would try it. It certainly wasn't responsible. I think everything luna_sparkle said about polyjuice, Lockhart, and the Mudblood issues was spot on! -------------------- Member of D.O. 116 days until 07-21-07

fawkes28 View Member Profile	Feb 2 2007, 11:15 AM Post #9
Organizing the Halo Rebellion Posts: 3,214 Joined: 2:09pm April 16, 2006 Location: Being angelic, of course	QUOTE(scollins @ Feb 1 2007, 10:20 PM) [snapback]1084678[/snapback] Just like all ethics questions, it comes down to intent. You are exactly right, scollins. For me, Lockhart is one of the most unethical characters in this book. His intentions for wiping people's memories was not for the greater good; rather it was for his own selfish purposes. He stole other people's memories and claimed them as his own. His purpose: to gain fame and popularity. Yes, he succeeded, but this man got what was coming to him. Jo does not let Lockhart's unethical actions go - she gives him the best punishment - having no memory. The trio's intentions with the Polyjuice potions were ultimately for the greater good because they did not want harm to come to anyone in the school. However, I believe part of their hearts wanted to seek revenge on Draco. They wanted him to be guilty. I am not sure if the polyjuice potion was the most ethical way to go. -------------------- The Quest Books We will NOT be swayed by a halo draggin', eye batting Phoenix!!! ~DMD

SoonerGryffindor View Member Profile	Feb 2 2007, 01:18 PM Post #10
WeasleyCast's Hostess With The Mostest Posts: 6,606 Joined: 2:44am February 20, 2006 Location: At The Burrow taking cooking lessons from Molly	While the trio's intentions for the polyjuice were good for them, was it really ethical to drug and then hide the bodies of Crabbe and Goyle? What would the reaction have been if Draco had done the same thing to Ron and Hermione because he was wanting to find out for sure if Harry was the heir or not and had the same plan but in reverse? -------------------- This Episode is so big, we needed Hermione's beaded bag WeasleyCast.Com