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Mrs Coulter, hero or villain?, And what about her golden monkey daemon |
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 Mar 10 2008, 04:51 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf
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MRS COULTER, HEROINE OR VILLAIN?
Of all the characters in Golden Compass, Mrs Marisa Coulter is the most morally ambiguous. Lord Asriel is the father of her child, Lyra, but he left Lyra to be reared safely at Jordan College, one of the famous Oxford University colleges. When Lyra learns that playmates she knows are being kidnapped, she is resolved to seek out their fates.
But then Mrs Coulter intervenes to take back her daughter. It appears that Mrs Coulter is in cahoots with the General Oblation Board, who as 'the Gobblers' have been kidnapping children to be sent off to Bolvanger. There, the kidnapped children are separated by a process called Intercission from their daemons, something like being subjected to the Dementor's kiss.
Lyra wants to stop this horribly heart-rending process and enlists a number of allies to reach Bolvangar where she finds some of her old playmates, in particular, her friend, Roger Parslow. Lyra faces many dangers on the way, not the least being the prospect of being severed from her own daemon, Pantalaimon. But Mrs Coulter, though she doesn't mind experimenting on other people's children, draws the line at hurting her own daughter. And though again and again Lyra believes Mrs Coulter to be a fearsome Oblation board villain, Mrs Coulter nonetheless wants only the best for Lyra.
A few points and questions to ponder, mainly from the first book, Northern Lights:
1. What did you think when you found out that Mrs Coulter was Lyra Belaqua's mother?
2. Why is Mrs Coulter so interested in furthering the aims of the General Oblation Board?
3. Why would adults who have daemons themselves begrudge children the right to their own daemons?
4. What sort of mother do you think Mrs Coulter is? Why is she so indifferent to other people's children?
5. What sort of person was Lord Asriel, Mrs Coulter's partner, who fathered Lyra Silvertongue? Was he really antagonistic to Mrs Coulter or was he her friend?
This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Mar 10 2008, 05:24 AM
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Mar 22 2008, 10:32 PM
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Leaky Cauldron Napkin Folder
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QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Mar 10 2008, 04:51 AM)  1. What did you think when you found out that Mrs Coulter was Lyra Belaqua's mother? When I found out that Mrs. Coulter was Lyra's mum I was really shocked! I didn't like her. She's a fascinating person, but I didn't like how she seemed fake and so rude to Lyra.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Mar 10 2008, 04:51 AM) 3. Why would adults who have daemons themselves begrudge children the right to their own daemons? I think it's some sort of displaced sense of wanting to protect children. They're wanting to protect children from what they see as something bad. They think that by seperating a child from his/her dæmon because they (the Church) thinks that it'll protect the children from sin, or the fall, or whatever.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Mar 10 2008, 04:51 AM) 4. What sort of mother do you think Mrs Coulter is? Why is she so indifferent to other people's children? I think Mrs. Coulter is a very poor mother. She was a nonentity in her daughter's life for over a decade. She does come into her daughter's life, but she does that to use Lyra to help get children for the intercission process. (is that right?  ) Granted, she does save her daughter from the intercission process, but that doesn't fully redeem her, at least in my eyes. she does in later books though!
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"If you believed as he did. Could you take away his soul?" ~Carlisle, New Moon   Thanks to {{voldy}} for the awesome siggies! |
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Mar 23 2008, 02:31 AM
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Hogsmeade's Butcher
Posts: 5,915
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Location: Sharpening my cleaver for photo-chopping
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Mrs. Coulter, according to Lord Asrael, wanted to be involved in the religious hierarchy. However, being female, this was to be denied her. Thus, through the eradication of "original sin" (called "dust" in the book) with her General Oblation Board, she was able to play a part despite her gender.
Now, I read the book AFTER having seen the film, and I found Mrs. Coulter to be a much more sympathetic character on the page than she was on the screen. And, of course, the final bit which was not in the film left me gobsmacked. I am looking forward to completing the series to see how her role evolves, but, on the face of it, I find her to be an ambiguous character along the lines of Severus Snape in the Potter books. Surely she is on her own side, but who else's? I think it speaks volumes that she cared not for the destruction of nameless children's lives (with the removal of their daemons), and that she even wanted to WATCH it happen. But, on the other hand, could not bear the same fate for her own daughter. 
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Mar 23 2008, 07:34 AM
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Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer
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Location: In the North, helping out Krum find his way back to Hogwarts
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1. What did you think when you found out that Mrs Coulter was Lyra Belaqua's mother?
I saw it coming, though, but was shocked nonetheless. A woman so ruthless, to be the mother of a child who is so special. All in all I did think it fitted the picture, given Lyra's story, for her father and mother to be such different people and to have something common between them.
2. Why is Mrs Coulter so interested in furthering the aims of the General Oblation Board?
I think she was so bittered by her past, and the fact that she had a child and gave it up, so she couldn't protect it anymore. Most people seek their safe haven in religion when things get bad. Supporting the Gobblers does just that, and she receives personal gain.
3. Why would adults who have daemons themselves begrudge children the right to their own daemons?
Jealousy. I think adults ponder about how worryless their youth was, and how the more difficult it became when they grew up and their deamons settled. With your deamon being free, you are as well.
4. What sort of mother do you think Mrs Coulter is? Why is she so indifferent to other people's children?
in some ways I think of Mrs Coulter as Umbridge being a mother. it sounds bad, and it is. hehe... Mrs Coulter is so fixed on her goals and beliefs and is interested in personal gain. Yet, being a mother, even as ruthless as she is, she never wants anything to happen to her own child. She takes 'mum knows best' a little over the edge...
5. What sort of person was Lord Asriel, Mrs Coulter's partner, who fathered Lyra Silvertongue? Was he really antagonistic to Mrs Coulter or was he her friend?
See, love is so complicated... He hates her for what she's done to Lyra and knows deep in his heart that a mother she will never truly be. But love goes so deep, you can't shake it off, even if that person hurts you and your beliefs and changes face whenever they want. I think he was never her friend, but always her love. Lord Asriel, in my mind, was a sort of 'cool uncle'. He was ruthless in his own way, but he hardly was cruel as Mrs Coulter. He is such an intriguing person, and I'd liek to have seen more of him.
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*Sometimes the most important questions are the ones we decide not to ask*
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Mar 24 2008, 01:56 PM
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie
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1. What did you think when you found out that Mrs Coulter was Lyra Belaqua's mother?
I thought it was very nice, albeit a predictable twist. Pullman had to make Coulter more than just the head of the G.O.B., otherwise she could have been seen as another typical bad girl. I think it was great that it added another facet to her.
2. Why is Mrs Coulter so interested in furthering the aims of the General Oblation Board?
I think Haglographer13 hit the nail on the mark. She's after power pure and simple, and she won't let anything get in her way including love. Though I think in her own twisted way she cared for Lyra, I don't think her feelings equated to any kind of love that a sane person would feel. She thought by bringing Lyra with her, she could keep her inline and safe, but what she didn't count on was the fact that Lyra has the same stubbornness and strong will that she inherited from her parents. That was one of Mrs. Coulter's many failures.
3. Why would adults who have daemons themselves begrudge children the right to their own daemons?
If you listen to Mrs. Coulter, it's so all children will eternally remain pure and free from sin and thus safe from dust. I often wondered, if the amputee didn't die and continued on daemonless, would they remain forever young as well as free from sin?
4. What sort of mother do you think Mrs Coulter is? Why is she so indifferent to other people's children?
I think in her way she tried to be the best mom she could. Having said that, I honestly think she was a horrible mother towards Lyra. She's always known about her, but chose to wait until her plans with the G.O.B. were in full swing before she made a point to come and look after Lyra. I know it was because of her thirst for power, and having a child out of wedlock would have caused her to be shuned, and that thirst is always what would come first, above all...even her own daughter.
5. What sort of person was Lord Asriel, Mrs Coulter's partner, who fathered Lyra Silvertongue? Was he really antagonistic to Mrs Coulter or was he her friend?
I think in some ways Asriel was an antagonist to Coulter in the way that he was against the church official and all that it stood for, where as Coulter was a champion of the church. Having said that, I think when it comes down to it, they had the same aims...power and how to attain it. I do think though that Asriel had higher aims in obtaining power than Mrs. Coulter.
This post has been edited by LadyCake: Mar 24 2008, 01:58 PM
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Mar 26 2008, 12:54 AM
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Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit
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I will admit that I am basing my opinion of Mrs. Coulter's character solely on Golden Compass...and I am unimpressed. She appears to be a selfish, horrible woman. The comments from the workers at Bolvanger that she seemed to "enjoy" being present when daemon's were separated, the fact that she cold-heartedly decieved small helpless children, and the fact that she knew Lyra to be present when Asriel opened the doorway and didn't bother to look for her, all lead me to despise her character more than any other. She is the complete opposite of what a mother should be, and I think the only reason she took Lyra at all was to prevent Lyra's father from taking her.
I did have one glimmer of hope for her, when she explained to Lyra that the procedure was for the good of the children. I did wonder, at that point, if her motives might be truer than they appeared. However, in the very next moment, she is no longer concerned at all about Lyra's questions, but focused solely on the whereabouts of the alethiometer. Nice bit of parenting, that.
I thought what Ladycake said was interesting, about M. Coulter being a champion of the church. I wonder, is she a champion of the church because she believes the doctrines...or a champion of the church because the church has the power?
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Join us in Jo's Book Nook for discussion of Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility, starting Jan. 1. |
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May 19 2008, 08:59 AM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer
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Everyone seems to have elucidated pretty much my thoughts, but you guys are forgetting the monkey. The monkey is her soul and the monkey is far more colder and far more calculative than she is. Therefore, Marisa's maternal instincts are incredibly shallow. Perhaps her later actions are more guilt-ridden than anything, due to seeing her child suffer. That's about it though.
And at NL & SK, Marisa doesn't really get to know Lyra properly, nor is she allowed time to let herself grow to love the girl. And she is incredibly selfish, and still incredibly determined in her goals that Lyra is not of importance to her. Aside as a executor of her plans.
But really, all I wanted to say was, pay attention to the monkey. It tells you more than you thought it could.
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For he who fell, for he who chose to do the right thing, for he who sacrificed: Rest In Peace.
~ Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, 21.07.2007
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May 21 2008, 10:35 PM
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Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit
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That monkey is the creepiest thing I have ever read about. It seems to me that having a daemon is a huge disadvantage, how can anyone hide their emotions when they are written all over the outside of you? Given that, it seems even more inexcusable for anyone to trust someone with bad intentions, because it seems that those bad intentions are apparent, so by lending support to that person you do so knowingly.
I was sickened by Mrs. Coulter right from the get-go this time around. The whole torture of the witch was absolutely revolting, and it doesn't get better from there. I have heard she has a redeeming moment later on (haven't read the last one yet, and I will confess I am on the fence about it), but that is hard to imagine from this side of the last book. In fact, as I was watching OotP today, I wonder if there is a little bit of Mrs. Coulter in Delores Umbridge. They are certainly both disgusting in their enjoyment of the pain of others.
Something catches my eye, though, in the council on the boat.
QUOTE My child, my own child, conceived in sin and born in shame, but my child nonetheless, and you keep from me what I have every right to know.
Does anyone think that Coulter loves Lyra, or is she just using her status as 'mother' to strong-arm information?
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Join us in Jo's Book Nook for discussion of Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility, starting Jan. 1. |
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