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Romance in Pride and Prejudice, What is relevant to modern life |
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 Apr 17 2008, 06:48 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf
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 ROMANCE IN PRIDE AND PREJUDICE
Jane Austen's famous novel, although written earlier, was first published in 1813. That is to say, nearly two centuries ago. This novel began with the famous quote:
QUOTE "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife"  Jane Austen quotes (British Novelist and Writer, 1775-1817)
The plot centres around at least three romances and a dire problem an upper class family with five daughters would have with male only inheritance. The romances concern Elizabeth Bennet, the main character, and her at times unwilling attraction to Fitzwilliam Darcy, a wealthy young man who is also drawn to her, despite the pride and prejudice displayed by both characters. This romance was not the only one. Jane, her elder sister, feels attracted to Charles Bingley, another suitable husband. And even their youngest sister, Lydia, has a romance and runaway marriage with Mr Wickham, who is described as a cad.
But Jane Austen's novel portrays a way of life far different from the one we live today, regardless of class. Would young women today marry someone like William Collins, the inheritor of the Bennet dwelling, rather than miss out on marrying altogether, no matter how unattractive he might appear? What sort of person do readers imagine Charlotte Lucus, Elizabeth's friend, to be to accept this man as a husband?
What do you think about how the romances are conducted in Pride and Prejudice? Whilst mores and manners have changed since 1813, what do you find timeless about the romances in the story?
How differently does today's world view a romance such as that between Lydia and Mr Wickham? Why did this couple meet with so much disapproval in that era? Would today's world be more lenient towards this couple, Mr Wickham, in particular?
Why do characters like Miss Bingley disapprove of the Bennet sisters, and do everything in their power to derail their romances?
Whilst reading the book, how successful did you think the Bennet sisters would be in snaring a suitable husband?
This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Apr 18 2008, 03:50 PM
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 Apr 20 2008, 01:32 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility
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QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Apr 17 2008, 12:48 PM) 
Would young women today marry someone like William Collins, the inheritor of the Bennet dwelling, rather than miss out on marrying altogether, no matter how unattractive he might appear? What sort of person do readers imagine Charlotte Lucus, Elizabeth's friend, to be to accept this man as a husband?
How differently does today's world view a romance such as that between Lydia and Mr Wickham? Why did this couple meet with so much disapproval in that era? Would today's world be more lenient towards this couple, Mr Wickham, in particular?
Why do characters like Miss Bingley disapprove of the Bennet sisters, and do everything in their power to derail their romances?
Charlotte Lucas - well, I don't really blame her for marrying Mr Collins - life back then was so different from what it is today. Today women can work, own property etc and be independant, where as women like Charlotte Lucas were expected to marry, then they'd be supported by their husband. Women in her class would only have careers such as being a governess. To her marrying someone, even if it were Mr Collins would have been preferable, rather than ending up as a poor "old maid".
Lydia and Wickham - I guess they were dissapproved of because they weren't doing the done thing, it wasn't socially acceptable. I think spmething like that today would be viewed as acceptable - they could have lived together, probably split up and that would have been that, rather than being forced to get married.
I suppose the Bingley sisters disapprove of the Bennet sisters because they see the Bennets as being socially inferior. They were from a (slightly) poorer background, and were lower on the social scale of the time. They wanted to further themselves and their brother by marrying people they saw as equals or possibly people they thought to be superior to themselves.
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Apr 20 2008, 05:22 PM
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Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man
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It seems in Jane Austen's time that women of the kind of people she writes about were expected to marry, and the idea of marrying for love was kind of outrageous. Women that were independent of spirit or that exhibit their own opinion were in poor taste. They pretty much married who they were told to, or who asked them to, for fear of not getting married at all.
And, everyone did get married, divorce was a rare scandal and running off with someone else was unthinkable.
Although I like the romance in Jane Austen novels because it seems so perfect and polite and special, where even a touch of a hand on hand was exceptional other than in formal dances, underneath it basically covers up an industry where women have to marry, and guys have to marry within their social class. To even consider marrying a woman with a small income was barely thinkable. The Bingley sisters would have looked down on the Miss Bennetts for being inferior in class and in income.
In the romances that we see, people didnt *live together*, they werent supposed to marry for love but for a profitable business, and all relationships were heterosexual.
Mr Darcey is a brave and rare exception while staying within the rules of marrying because that's what people did, because despite himself and his circumstances he married an *inferior* poorer woman because he loves her.
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Apr 20 2008, 09:27 PM
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Just Through the Brick Wall
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I agree with Micromys minutus about Charlotte Lucas -- it is understandable within the context and time period of the novel why she would choose to marry someone like Mr. Collins (not the first choice in anyone's list, I would assume) rather than remaining single. I wouldn't consider it completely applicable today, though, when women are accepted to be financially independent and on their own….or at least I don’t think it as common, because there is always the woman whose goal is to marry no matter what for the “fear loneliness and isolation” that BiliusSue mentioned. Nor, do I think that passing an opportunity to marry a Mr. Collins is basically resigning yourself to never marrying: the fact that women now have the freedom of having careers and, essentially, a life of their own, opens up many social networks in which a woman is most likely to meet someone that is more suitable for her than the Mr. Collins she decided to pass on. It should also be considered that Charlotte was unmarried in her early 20s and already considered an "old maid" if she didn't find a husband soon -- a situation that no longer applies to day either, when more women seek to complete their education and establish themselves in a profession before considering marriage. I think that as readers we tend to, in a way, reproach Charlotte or mentally scold her for her decision, not only because we have a modern view of such matters, but also because we see in Elizabeth someone who actually adheres to those modern views a bit more than others and so we tend to wonder, "If Elizabeth is capable of rising above the society standard that she'll end up an old maid if she doesn't marry Collins, then why is Charlotte not capable of it as well?" And it is quite a bit unfair to think of Charlotte as anything less because of it when, after all, her decision is considered the norm for that time and Elizabeth's the much more progressive one and therefore somewhat unaccepted.
As far as the romance (if you could call it that) between Lydia and Mr. Wickham goes, it would probably be acceptable today, but only to a certain extend. If you take in consideration that Lydia is barely 16 when she runs away with Wickham, it is not exactly a situation to which most parents today would react calmly. Wickham's behavior, moreover, is not worthy of applause either, even today, especially when Mr. Darcy explains what Wickham did to Darcy's sister. I think it is perhaps the general concept of living together without marriage that would be accepted in today's society as it is a relatively common occurrence. And it is that precisely why the entire romance is viewed with disapproval in the novel -- the impropriety of there not being a marriage to make the affair acceptable.
And what is timeless about the romance in the novel? I would say that maybe the idea that in spite of the changing views of romance, women still want a partner that fits within the definition of being a gentleman, with good manners, someone that will treat them right. Also, more within the context of Elizabeth’s and Mr. Darcy’s romance, there is the whole idea that you can find love where you least expect it and in whom you least expect it.
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"If you want to know what a man's like,
take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals" - Sirius Black |
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Apr 21 2008, 11:38 PM
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes
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I believe that in 1813, if you were upper middle class your romantic inclinations were towards those with the means to uplift you (and your family) socially and financially. I am sure there were love matches but most of the romances we read about from that era have to do with finding wealthy husbands (and likewise for men...wealthy wives if they needed the money). Those who cared more for emotional happiness rather than their materialistic happiness were seen as unusual and strange.
The aspects of these romances that I can most identify with are those feelings of excitement when you first met someone and there is innocent flirting (catching each other eye across the room, butterflies in stomach, accidentally brushing hands, etc). It reminds me of middle school and passing notes in class. The gossip that revolves around speculated relationships is also very much alive today, we see it in the tabloids all the time.
As for Lydia and Wickham, back then it was simply that they were not sanctioned through marriage to conduct themselves in such a manner that made everyone mad. Girls were supposed to be virgins on their wedding night. If Wickham hadn't married her, she probably would never married or married a man that considered her used goods and treated her poorly and she would have to appreciate whatever she could get. The world today would view Wickham and Lydia's relationship with the same contempt. She was 15 (a child). He would not be forced to marry her...he would be charged with rape in most places.
Miss Bingley disapproves of the Bennet sisters because she is jealous. If Jane marries Bingley, then Miss Bingley is pretty much not needed to run her brother's house anymore and she would go from being in charge to basically just a prolonged guest. Miss Bingley also had designs on Mr. Darcy and those designs did not include Elizabeth.
While reading the book, I knew/hoped Elizabeth-Darcy would happen. I was afraid for Jane-Bingley but very happy. Lydia shocked me...I didn't think she was that selfish and stupid but I was wrong. I can't see Mary getting married but I am sure Kitty will find someone with Lizzy and Jane's new connections.
This post has been edited by kellyn: Apr 21 2008, 11:39 PM
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Apr 23 2008, 01:09 AM
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Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit
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QUOTE(kellyn @ Apr 22 2008, 10:40 AM) I think Elizabeth actually wants to be happy within her marriage. I think she wants to find someone she can love and someone who will love her for herself (rather than a dowry). Most women in that society wanted stability financially. They wanted to be safe and comfortable. If they ended up with someone they came to like and maybe admire then that was just icing on the cake.
I think Jane actually leaned more towards Elizabeth's view. She wanted love and found it with Bingley. If she had merely wanted his wealth she might have been a little more aggressive in her pursuits.
Lydia definitely was looking for a husband that could give her the materialistic things she wanted but did it in a socially unconventional way.
Mr. Collins, Charlotte, Lady Catherine, Mrs. Bennet, Caroline Bingley all supported society's view. Marriage was a way to secure stability or social recognition.
I think Mr. Darcy kinda switched views somewhere along the way. He first disapproved of Lizzie and her family and therefore she was beneath him. However, once he got to know her he feel in love and society's opinion could go to blazes.
I agree, I think Elizabeth wants to be happy in her marriage. I imagine she would rather be poor and married to someone she loved, than rich and despise the person she was married to. Perhaps her view of marriage was influenced by her parents relationship. Do you think her parents were happily married?
I don't know that Lydia was looking for someone to supply materialistic wants, she wanted attention..to be the first of the girls married, to get the man her sister couldn't get, to gain an independence that would allow her to play grown-up. Knowing Wickham for his character, I actually feel very badly for Lydia because I can't imagine her being happy in the long run. What a sad situation for a woman to be in back then, trapped in an unhappy marriage. It would be difficult to leave, since it was so hard to be employed; especially if there are children involved.
In that sense, I can't really blame Charlotte for being so practical. Sure, her husband is a bit...well, the word escapes me at the moment, so feel free to insert your own...but she is going to be comfortable, respected, and taken care of. If someone isn't a romantic, then that is not a half-bad life. Charlotte has found a husband with a comfortable situation who is unlikely to gamble the household income, abuse his family, or waste his life in the bottom of the bottle. Not bad. Not blissfully happy honeymoon-for-a-lifetime, but secure, and isn't that a form of happiness after all?
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