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Hagrid, larger than life, What sort of person? |
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May 20 2008, 04:28 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf


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HAGRID
Hagrid is a character who has played a large part in the series. From his earliest schooldays he was an opponent of Tom Riddle, who framed him for Moaning Myrtle's death. But Hagrid was always a staunch friend of Harry Potter and admirer of Dumbledore.
In PS/SS Hagrid is the one who brings the infant Harry to 4 Privet Drive and then he is the one to extricate Harry from his life with the Dursleys when he brings Harry his Hogwarts letter.
Now that the series has finished, how prophetic was Hagrid's role in Harry's early life?
Was Hagrid really the best person to usher Harry into Wizarding life?
For example, how accurate were Hagrid's beliefs about the Wizarding World? For example, he tells Harry that most Dark Wizards come from Slytherin House. And he won't believe that Snape was trying to get the Philosopher's Stone.
Is Dumbledore justified in telling Professor McGonagall that he would trust Hagrid with his life?
What do you think about Hagrid's helplessness and weakness over how he got the dragon's egg that hatched into Norbert/Norberta?
And what do you think about Hagrid's hospitality and cooking?
Cheers! Enjoy!
This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: May 24 2008, 06:54 PM
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Jun 4 2008, 11:57 PM
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Dominating the world, one poking stick at a time


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QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ May 20 2008, 05:28 PM)  Now that the series has finished, how prophetic was Hagrid's role in Harry's early life? First of all Wagga; these are wonderful questions to ponder over . Hagrid came into Harry's life with a bang and I loved it! I could say so many wonderful things about Hagrid; and I don't even know where to begin. I believe it brilliant on Rowling's part to have chosen Hagrid to play such an important role in Harry's life. His sheer size alone commands respect; and he had certain protective qualities that Harry needed since he spent so many long and potentially emotionally scarring years with the Dursleys.
QUOTE Was Hagrid really the best person to usher Harry into Wizarding life? I do believe that Hagrid was the best person to bring Harry into the wizarding world. As an orphan himself; Rowling makes a nice and subtle parallel between Hagrid and Harry. Dumbledore entrusts Hagrid with the ever so important task of introducing Harry to his wizarding roots and Hagrid was the perfect person for this task. For me, Hagrid has a certain simplicity in explaining things in a way that are understandable; especially for an 11 year old who up until that point had no clue about his parents, the wizarding world, Hogwarts, and Voldemort; to name a few. Hagrid's explanation and narration weren't eloquent, but they were practical. And I believe Harry even at such a tender age could understand the circumstances, embrace them and trust Hagrid implicitly. Hagrid brought Harry an immediate warmth that Harry so desperately needed and craved. It also helped that Hagrid stood up to the Dursleys too.
QUOTE For example, how accurate were Hagrid's beliefs about the Wizarding World? For example, he tells Harry that most Dark Wizards come from Slytherin House. And he won't believe that Snape was trying to get the Philosopher's Stone. I believe Hagrid was being accurate at the time not only because of what he himself knew of Slytherin house during his brief tenure as a student; but Slytherin house carried with it a "bad" name because of the students who went there and because of what they became. Hagrid's sentiments regarding Slytherin were mirrored by many wizards, and not just Hagrid.
Hagrid's defending Snape shows me as a reader that Hagrid is fiercely loyal; even to Snape. And I never believed that loyalty came because Snape was a teacher. Hagrid and Dumbledore had a close connection; and if Hagrid knew that Dumbledore trusted Snape; that was all Hagrid needed to trust Snape too.
QUOTE Is Dumbledore justified in telling Professor McGonagall that he would trust Hagrid with his life? Absolutely! I've always wondered what exactly Hagrid did to earn this unyielding trust from Dumbledore; but maybe it wasn't just one defining moment. Hagrid and Dumbledore knew each other for years; and Dumbledore knew that Hagrid was innocent of having had anything to do with the opening of the Chamber of Secrets. I'm sure that Hagrid proved himself as trustworthy time and again; so it might not have been just one time in particular that stood out in Dumbledore's mind.
QUOTE What do you think about Hagrid's helplessness and weakness over how he got the dragon's egg that hatched into Norbert/Norberta? I have to admit that as a reader I thought it quite foolish for Hagrid to even have a dragon egg. But again, we see how loyal and loving Hagrid is; even to dangerous creatures. Dangerous creatures deserve to have someone champion them too, right .
QUOTE And what do you think about Hagrid's hospitality and cooking?  Hagrid definitely seemed hospitable; and he always offered the trio tea and food; even if the particular food wasn't easy on the palate . Again, it just shows that Hagrid has a heart of gold and always means well.
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Jun 5 2008, 12:48 AM
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins

   
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Are we talking about the same Hagrid? There was nothing wrong with him. Actually, the youth did learn quite a few lessons from him. One that comes to mind is that one man's Friendly Misunderstood Critters can be Deadly to others. Does not mean he was a bad role model - he was himself.
J.K.Rowlings writes her characters in an honest approach where it's not assigned that once you graduate from your education, you are now supposed to be a role model. We could pull in the example the Minister of Magic - he was far from being anyone's role model. No one is. If you do think you are being a role model, then you are teaching a child false values that later in life they will find out all along you have been lying about who you are.
Harry, Hermione, and Ron loved going to Hagrids Hut - and ACCEPTED HIM. What a brilliant lesson to learn early in life. They knew his cooking was - interesting. He spoke his mind. It's not his job to say that Slytherin are some of the nicest folks around because the actual term of nice is a negative comment and way to describe a person.
From my visits in the U.K. I have learned that Adults will speak their mind about how those foreigner types are. I would rather hear them be upfront about their own personal fear, then them editing them self to be a role model.
Hagrid showed strength in character to still keep going on, even when he had been misjudged, having his wand broken. Many people will just label you for the rest of your life. Harry, Ron, and Hermione learned this from a fine man they happened to care about but they did not peg him. They were his friend and he was a great one back.
What about Fang? That had to be one of the most lovable dogs around? Hagrid had a rare heart, even if he was a bit confused when to share it with Madame Maxine. He showed Harry, Ron, and Hermione that even later in life dating can be difficult, make you uncomfortable, and not work out.
Real Life lessons means seeing life for what it is, with all of its flaws. Who comforted Hermione when she was called a mudblood - HAGRID! He had the most genuine kindest heartfelt words for her - this imprinted a positive memory for her to face people head on who called her that.
Hagrid was a walking lesson in how we lack so many skills in accepting what we fear. I quite liked the Centaurs in the Forbidden Forest. Even when Albus Dumbledore gave Firenze a job at Hogwart's when his tribe threw him out, it was more Hagrids good relations with accepting how the Centaurs were - and let them have their ways and customs.
I think the only real bad lesson he taught was the Care of Flobberworms; but even that showed the youth that we think we are in our compromises teaching, but we can't see how foolish we look. Hermione still has to learn it with S.P.E.W., Ron has to learn it with having confidence in himself, and Harry made many mistakes because he faced the real world on his own. He built up his skills the hard way.
What a great place for Harry, Hermione, and Ron to go to - seeing that a person can live without much in Hagrid's Hut, and do a job they like at an Institution that did not allow him to carry on with his education. People don't know how hard something like that is to face, day after day.
Big deal about Norbert - even I want one. Possibly pay attention to how Hermione, Ron and Harry were still able to make their own decisions, and still accept Hagrid. I think this taught them how to accept our own mistakes. That it's not such a great idea to drink your problems away, but face them. What did Hermione do when Hagrid was drinking his problems - she took his mug away from him and motivated him to go dunk his head in the barrel of cold water. How many Adults do you know could face that type of honesty from youth?
They were there for Hagrid, even when they did not know how to handle the unexpected surprises or situations. Being placed in situations like this makes you develop skills to handle the feeling of uncomfort and move beyond it to make decisions to save your life, or possibly not eat rock cakes.
The only real tough part is how much Harry, Hermione, and Ron lied to Hagrid. They felt they did not want to hurt his feelings. Did Hagrid lie to them? No. He showed that you have to have some trust with people before they are willing to talk about difficult events in their life. Even then people have a hard time being daily reminded of how they were robbed a continued education of Magic by a MASTER OF IMAGE - Tom Riddle, who was playing the role model to achieve the power he wanted over people.
Buckbeak is a fine creature. Animals are not playthings, don't belong in cages for us to stare and point at, given them human qualities just to make ourselves comfortable.
I know in my life I preferred to learn from people who did not put on an image. When I went out into the real world I was completely unprepared for the harsh realities that role models kept hidden from me about how it really was - even in my own community. Hagrid was a kind, loving, big hearted man who - cried in front of the youth. If we go on Male principles of image - we are not supposed to cry. That's seen as a weakness. Harry, Ron and Hermione handled his tears and the extensive range of emotions Hagrid went through, and still saw him as a strong male.
This post has been edited by helyx: Jun 5 2008, 12:58 AM
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Jun 5 2008, 10:58 AM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary


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Fantastic posts lirene and helyx, and great questions WWW ! 
QUOTE Now that the series has finished, how prophetic was Hagrid's role in Harry's early life? Jo is so wonderful ! She brought things around in such a beautiful way. Hagrid was the first person to take on the role of protector in Harry's life after his parents died. He was the one who brought out the baby from the ruins of the house to Dumbledore. Hagrid remembers how Harry could fit into one hand and says so to him. It is only in DH that Harry really fears for Hagrid's life when Hagrid, demonstrating the extent to which he would go to protect Harry, jumps off the motorbike onto a DE. And later on, it was Hagrid who was the only one among the people who loved Harry, to see him hand himself over to Voldemort. If Hagrid couldn't stand leaving little Harry on a doorstep, how on earth did he survive seeing Harry walk up to his death without being able to do anything about it ? Hagrid carrying what he thought was Harry's lifeless body to the castle will always be one of the most poignant scenes ever.
QUOTE Was Hagrid really the best person to usher Harry into Wizarding life? Hagrid was the best person to introduce Harry to his world. The only other person would have been Dumbledore himself IMO. Harry needed someone he could trust and like and learn from and he got all three from Hagrid. Actually, I think Harry and Hagrid are very much alike in most ways. Both of them have a certain innocence they never lose, they are both pure of heart and never wish to do any real harm to anyone. Both of them love their friends and would do anything for them and are brave, loyal and trustworthy to the hilt.
QUOTE For example, how accurate were Hagrid's beliefs about the Wizarding World? For example, he tells Harry that most Dark Wizards come from Slytherin House. And he won't believe that Snape was trying to get the Philosopher's Stone. Hagrid was telling the truth about Slytherin house IMO. There might have been some bias, but it wasn't entirely his opinion. The facts spoke for themselves. As for trusting Snape, Hagrid trusted Dumbleore above everything in his life and since Dumbledore trusted Snape, Hagrid automatically trusted him too.
QUOTE Is Dumbledore justified in telling Professor McGonagall that he would trust Hagrid with his life? I would trust Hagrid with my life too, and totally agree with Dumbledore in his trusting Hagrid completely. Dumbledore was a good judge of character. He would have seen that Hagrid was as good a person as anyone could possibly be. Hagrid wa wholly incapable of hiding anything from anyone - even the trio in their first year could see what Hagrid was upto, it would have been child's play for Dumbledore to look into Hagrid's mind and see that Hagrid was the same both inside and outside, which is a very rare quality.
QUOTE What do you think about Hagrid's helplessness and weakness over how he got the dragon's egg that hatched into Norbert/Norberta? Hagrid did have a monster fetish, but it is to his credit that no one ever got seriously hurt following his instructions, except for the time when Harry and Ron were going to be eaten by Aragog's children. Hagrid genuinely loved the little dragon and I think was more moved by its plight because he saw a bit of him in it. The scenario of a child being left alone in the world without anyone to look after his interests would touch anyone, and Hagrid was more sensitive than most people. He sort of became to Norbert what Dumbledore was to him - a protector when there was no one else to look after him. Never mind that the creature was a dragon and well capable of looking after itself without Hagrid when it grew bigger, but I can totally understand Hagrid's feelings towards it at that time.
QUOTE And what do you think about Hagrid's hospitality and cooking? Hospitality - Five stars ! Cooking - er.... Good effort.
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Jun 6 2008, 06:43 AM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer
 
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QUOTE Now that the series has finished, how prophetic was Hagrid's role in Harry's early life? He got everything important correct: LV would come back, Harry would be a great Wizard, dragons can be useful and Snape was on Dumbledore's side.
QUOTE Was Hagrid really the best person to usher Harry into Wizarding life? In hindsight, Hagrid fetching Harry from the Dursley was a test of how strongly the presence of a part of LV affected Harry's behaviour (it didn't) as Hagrid was one of the earliest victims of Riddle.
QUOTE For example, how accurate were Hagrid's beliefs about the Wizarding World? For example, he tells Harry that most Dark Wizards come from Slytherin House. And he won't believe that Snape was trying to get the Philosopher's Stone. He couldn't have known about Wormtail but at that ponit of the story he must have believed that Sirius was on LV's side (as he tells us in PoA).
QUOTE Is Dumbledore justified in telling Professor McGonagall that he would trust Hagrid with his life? Yes, he is. But I wouldn't say the same thing the other way round. Dumbledore is too much a strategist, just like Ron at the chessboard.
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Jun 19 2008, 08:26 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf


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QUOTE(rowena r @ Jun 6 2008, 01:58 AM)  Hagrid wa wholly incapable of hiding anything from anyone - even the trio in their first year could see what Hagrid was up to, it would have been child's play for Dumbledore to look into Hagrid's mind and see that Hagrid was the same both inside and outside, which is a very rare quality.
I'm glad you like my questions, but right as you are about Hagrid, unfortunately if it was so easy to read Hagrid that even the trio could do it, then it would be just as easy for Voldemort to read Hagrid. On this occasion in the book, Quirrellmort clearly knew of Hagrid's desire to rear a dragon, and exploited that overwhelming desire of Hagrid's, plus his desire for a drink or three and company at the Hogs Head to get some information out of him. And that tactic is a THIPS in itself. Where else in the series do we see someone giving out information they wouldn't normally, out of greed for materialistic things, strong drink and companionship?
QUOTE QUOTE What do you think about Hagrid's helplessness and weakness over how he got the dragon's egg that hatched into Norbert/Norberta? Hagrid did have a monster fetish, but it is to his credit that no one ever got seriously hurt following his instructions, except for the time when Harry and Ron were going to be eaten by Aragog's children. Hagrid genuinely loved the little dragon and I think was more moved by its plight because he saw a bit of him in it. The scenario of a child being left alone in the world without anyone to look after his interests would touch anyone, and Hagrid was more sensitive than most people. He sort of became to Norbert what Dumbledore was to him - a protector when there was no one else to look after him. Never mind that the creature was a dragon and well capable of looking after itself without Hagrid when it grew bigger, but I can totally understand Hagrid's feelings towards it at that time.
Well, yes, Hagrid does have a monster fetish, I'd agree that in this book nobody gets hurt in the long run, (apart from Ron's dragon-bite) and he does have a point. All creatures have a right to their life, whether they are endangered polar bears, cute-looking koalas or dragons. But really, a desire to rear a dragon is just as impractical as a desire to rear a koala or a polar bear, even though Hagrid got an opportunity offered to him by a stranger. I think Hagrid was old enough to be aware that rearing a dragon privately was illegal, why it was illegal and that he had a responsibility not only to himself and his dragonish charge not to accept the egg, but also to guard the secret of how to get past Fluffy, another of his monster friends. Hagrid might have rescued the dragon, but really the dragon's egg should have been turned over to the likes of Charlie in the first place, while it was more easily transportable.
Letting slip the information about how to get past Fluffy because of his desire for a dragon's egg shows exactly why Hagrid might not be as trustworthy a person as Dumbledore claims. Or are there things that Hagrid can be trusted with and others that should be kept from him?
QUOTE Hospitality - Five stars ! Cooking - er.... Good effort. 
Have to agree. Is there a resemblance between Mrs Figg's cooking and Hagrids?
This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Jun 19 2008, 08:34 PM
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Jun 26 2008, 05:16 PM
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Camping in the room of requirement


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QUOTE(helyx @ Jun 5 2008, 12:48 AM)  Does not mean he was a bad role model - he was himself.
While you proved this point throughout your whole post, Helyx, I think this sentence alone expresses my own feelings. The important part about Hagrid is, he was who he is. He wasn't perfect. He made many, many stupid mistakes, but he was loyal and he loved Harry from the minute he knew him. I think JKR makes a great point in his character. Special people don't have to be smart and they don't have to make all the right choices, but they do have to love and care.
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Jul 2 2008, 07:46 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf


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QUOTE(Love4Fawkes @ Jun 27 2008, 08:16 AM)  QUOTE(helyx @ Jun 5 2008, 12:48 AM)  Does not mean he was a bad role model - he was himself. While you proved this point throughout your whole post, Helyx, I think this sentence alone expresses my own feelings. The important part about Hagrid is, he was who he is. He wasn't perfect. He made many, many stupid mistakes, but he was loyal and he loved Harry from the minute he knew him. I think JKR makes a great point in his character. Special people don't have to be smart and they don't have to make all the right choices, but they do have to love and care.
I've seen the point made that Hagrid wasn't considered quite trustworthy. The events of PS/SS and his weakness in getting drunk and giving out to Quirrell the information about Fluffy over a dragon's egg told against him. Even as late as DH it was Hagrid who was initially suspected of betraying the Order to Voldemort's minions.
Now we are in a new adventure:
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Harry, himself, is under suspicion of opening the Chamber of Secrets when he reveals he can speak Parseltongue. A mysterious diary from 50 years previously incriminates Hagrid as the culprit, because he has been hiding a monster, Aragog. And Hagrid for a time gets taken to Azkaban. Surely this is pathetic behaviour by the powers that be. Or is it logical behaviour?
When reading Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, did you think that Hagrid was the one who was responsible for the students who were petrified? Why or why not?
Why did Cornelius Fudge take Hagrid to Azkaban? Do you think Hagrid deserved this prison sentence? Did Hagrid deserve to be expelled for Moaning Myrtle's death?
Some people have a problem with spiders. for example. What do you think of Hagrid's loyalty to Aragog, his pet acromatula? Is this a commendable trait or something which got him into a lot of unnecessary trouble?
But then, some people also seem to have a problem with Harry as well. Not just the Dursleys, but the Hufflepuffs who think he is a dark wizard. Not only Harry is in strife, but also Hermione, whom calls a Mudblood. And she knows she is a target for the mysterious opener of the Chamber. Ron, whose family is clearly being marginalised by an influential high-up , also is not likely to be on the Hogwarts' A list for the most popular 2nd year student .
What do you think about Hagrid's loyalty in COS to not only Harry but also Hermione and Ron? Is this loyalty in some way comparable to his feelings for Aragog?
This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Jul 2 2008, 07:52 AM
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Jul 3 2008, 10:27 AM
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Dominating the world, one poking stick at a time


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QUOTE(Love4Fawkes @ Jun 27 2008, 08:16 AM)  QUOTE(helyx @ Jun 5 2008, 12:48 AM)  Does not mean he was a bad role model - he was himself. While you proved this point throughout your whole post, Helyx, I think this sentence alone expresses my own feelings. The important part about Hagrid is, he was who he is. He wasn't perfect. He made many, many stupid mistakes, but he was loyal and he loved Harry from the minute he knew him. I think JKR makes a great point in his character. Special people don't have to be smart and they don't have to make all the right choices, but they do have to love and care. I really commend Love4Fawkes and helyx for their wonderful insights and comments and I agree wholeheartedly. Hagrid was loyalty and love incarnate and I love how his character has developed throughout the series.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Jul 2 2008, 08:46 AM)  I've seen the point made that Hagrid wasn't considered quite trustworthy. The events of PS/SS and his weakness in getting drunk and giving out to Quirrell the information about Fluffy over a dragon's egg told against him. Even as late as DH it was Hagrid who was initially suspected of betraying the Order to Voldemort's minions. Quite truthfully, I was a bit bothered how Hagrid was the person suspected of betraying the Order. While Hagrid had his weaknesses, he wasn't perfect; Dumbledore himself wasn't perfect either; and he had his weaknessess as everyone else does. For me, there was a slight undercurrent of prejudice against Hagrid; and I thought that was unfair. Hagrid's simplicity was what drew me in to his character but in now way did I ever believe Hagrid was not loyal.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Jul 2 2008, 08:46 AM)  And Hagrid for a time gets taken to Azkaban. Surely this is pathetic behaviour by the powers that be. Or is it logical behaviour? This was just another instance of the Ministry using someone as a scapegoat and that person was Hagrid. Fudge was a puppet to the Ministry and to keep everyone happy and content; he arrested Hagrid for something he never did. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Lucius played a horrible role here too; his prejudice and dislike for Hagrid was clearly shown as was his disdain for Dumbledore.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Jul 2 2008, 08:46 AM)  When reading Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, did you think that Hagrid was the one who was responsible for the students who were petrified? Why or why not? I personally never thought that Hagrid was responsible for the petrification of the students. Hagrid would never intentionally cause harm to even the smallest of creatures. It just didn't make any sense to me that Hagrid would do such a thing. Plus, as the premise of the story was developing only Slytherin's descendant could open the chamber and for me, that wasn't Hagrid.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Jul 2 2008, 08:46 AM)  Did Hagrid deserve to be expelled for Moaning Myrtle's death? I certainly don't believe that Hagrid should have been expelled from Hogwarts; he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. I realize that the evidence was overwhelming; but why didn't anyone give Hagrid Veritaserum for example (would it work on a half giant?). I am still angered at how Tom manipulated the situation.
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Jul 2 2008, 08:46 AM)  Some people have a problem with spiders. for example. What do you think of Hagrid's loyalty to Aragog, his pet acromatula? Is this a commendable trait or something which got him into a lot of unnecessary trouble? Hagrid risked a lot for his love and loyalty of such animals and yes, sometimes I thought that Hagrid was careless; but ultimately he loved and protected such creatures because he himself might have been seen as a creature as a half giant. Hagrid championed the underdogs. So I can only commend Hagrid for having a heart bigger than he is 
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Jul 2 2008, 08:46 AM)  What do you think about Hagrid's loyalty in COS to not only Harry but also Hermione and Ron? Is this loyalty in some way comparable to his feelings for Aragog? Hagrid's loyalty was unwavering. I especially loved the scene after Draco called Hermione a "Mudblood" and how he explained the term to her; and just really made her feel good about herself. We see Hagrid's relationship grow with not only Harry, but the trio as a whole.
Hagrid is just loyal and loveable; I can't say it more intelligently than that; and we see his heart on his sleeve.
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