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 Jun 16 2008, 09:48 AM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup
Posts: 22
Joined: 8:52am June 15, 2008
Location: Eastern Massachusetts, USA
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QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Jun 13 2008, 09:41 AM)  What do you think are the similarities and differences between
Similarities:
Both have beards.
Both teach
Both are on the side of the good guys
That's really about it, IMO.
Differences
Gandalf isn't human. He's a literally a minor deity embodied in human form
Gandalf uses magic only very reluctantly
Gandalf has a quick temper
Gandalf is, if not immortal, very close to it (There's a reference somewhere in the RotK appendices to wizards "aging slowly," though whether that means their embodied forms or the soul/essence/ka of the minor deity I honestly have no idea) IIRC, he'd been alive for about 3,000 years as The Hobbit opens
Gandalf is quite willing to involve himself in politics if he believes it will make a difference
In the context of the LotR, Gandalf is not initially the most powerful wizard. He's beaten by Saruman in what I guess in an HP context would be considered duelling.
Gandalf is one of three or four wizards in the entire world in LotR, (we only meet three...Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey/White and Radagast the Brown, but something I read once claimed there were at least one or two more) vs. 100,000 wizarding folk that show up for the Quidditch World Cup alone. Thus you have a sense that Dumbledore is a leader in a community and Gandalf is not.
QUOTE Who do you think is the more powerful?
Probably Dumbledore. With a caveat.
Pro Dumbledore: Gandalf can't apparate, transfigure, ride brooms, make nifty potions, erase the memories of Muggles, see through invisiblity cloaks (well, probably), etc.
Pro Gandalf: Gandalf on balance would probably be tougher to out and out kill. I'm thinking of the Balrog encountered in FotR....And, as noted, he's not human in the first place.
QUOTE Which one would you prefer to be on your side in a battle?
Probably Dumbledore. Gandalf is simply far more limited in the magical powers at his disposal.
QUOTE Which one would you prefer as a friend during peace time?
Tie.
QUOTE Which one is the better leader?
Probably Gandalf. Dumbledore never had to try to work out an alliance between between different races that out and out hated each other (Wood Elves vs. Hill Dwarves)
Quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that a LotR vs. HP comparsion like this can be a fun way to pass the time, but doesn't really amount to all that much when the dust clears. Tolkien and Rowling have radically different styles, I personally think Tolkien is a far better writer, but lately I'm finding the HP books far more entertaining.
My $.02, and doubtless worth every penny...
Patrick
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Jun 16 2008, 11:00 AM
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Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man
Posts: 9,890
Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005
Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape
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QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Jun 13 2008, 11:41 AM) What do you think are the similarities and differences between them? *sigh* I should have made notes when I was reading The Hobbit because I kept thinking, ooh major similarity here. There's even something that Gandalf says, that is the exact same sentence used by DD.
Okay similarities: both have cool hats (which is a very important fact), both are exceedingly powerful wizards, both enjoy fun and have a twinkle in the eye that suggests they're not adverse to a bit of fun, both know fear & regular emotions, both have a reputation that precedes them by a mile and a half, both can speak to animals and understand them, both can duel and do battle, both will use others for The Greater Good, oftentimes without the person (Bilbo, Frodo or Harry Potter) actually realizing they are being used, but both really care deep down for those people, & will come to their rescue when possible.
Differences: Gandalf cant be killed. Okay there must be more than that.
QUOTE Who do you think is the more powerful? They both are very powerful in their own way, both have a deep understanding & knowledge of all kinds of magic, & can sense what's going on.
QUOTE Which one would you prefer to be on your side in a battle? Very tough, but I'd have to say Gandalf. He has more followers or, people that would follow him if asked, into battle. He has a bigger army.
QUOTE Which one would you prefer as a friend during peace time? Both. Gandalf seems a fun guy, he likes smoke rings and fireworks that do crazy things. Both like food and good times. DD would be cool to talk with, personally I just feel as though I could talk to him about anything and he'd understand.
QUOTE Which one is the better leader? Both. DD leads a school, and unites the different peoples of the wizarding world. Gandalf unites the different peoples of Middle Earth to join as friends & allies, where friendship would be thought impossible. Both can see the bigger picture and are able to lead their people because of their foresight.
QUOTE Please add in any other questions or discussion points you have. There are probably a whole lot of things I havent thought of. But, I think Gandalf with Bilbo & DD with Harry are in very similar situations, they care about their protegé but are compelled to put them in danger, in a steep learning curve, oftentimes leaving them (seemingly) alone to deal with the enemy. Neither of them were open with their protegé from the start, DD didnt tell Harry that he was preparing him for the big showdown with LV, Gandalf secretly put the mark on Bilbo's door (why the secrecy?)
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  I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan |
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Jun 17 2008, 12:53 AM
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie
Posts: 90
Joined: 8:43pm June 16, 2007
Location: out of my mind....
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QUOTE What do you think are the similarities and differences between them?
Well, they are both clearly the mentor character who has to die to get out of the hero's way, and both definitely embody the "greater good" ideal. I think their personalities are quite different though, and the way that they go about achieving their goals is also very different.
QUOTE Who do you think is the more powerful?
This is a tough question, because they exist in such different worlds. "Magic" in LOTR is so different from magic in HP. Hobbits don't understand and can't relate to magic, so it is constantly portrayed as something mysterious and elusive, but Harry obviously understands magic, so we as readers have a better understanding of Dumbledore's powers. Also, as others have pointed out, Gandalf was not human - he was a Maia, and I have always interpreted that to mean that he did have powers that we (or the Hobbits) did not see or appreciate because he chose not to exercise them.
QUOTE Which one would you prefer to be on your side in a battle?
I would have to say Gandalf, because I think he is a bit more open and honest than Dumbledore. We know he has his own (or perhaps a higher power's) agenda, and there are no surprises about the fact that he is manipulating events to the best of his ability to force a particular outcome. He tells Frodo from the very beginning that this is basically a suicide mission. (And please don't anyone yell at me - I know Harry was not ready to hear when he was eleven that he was going to have to die to get rid of Voldemort, but I still think Dumbledore manipulated him more than was necessary.) Also, I think that more people genuinely respected Gandalf. Dumbledore was seen as having a political agenda, so people like the pureblood elitists were never going to support him, but Gandalf had a rapport with people of all races and all walks of life.
QUOTE Which one would you prefer as a friend during peace time?
Both. I think Dumbledore is a little more personable and charismatic, but I love Gandalf's witty and sarcastic comments.
QUOTE Which one is the better leader?
I see them as very different types of leaders - Dumbledore was a clear authority figure with an established position from which he led, while Gandalf was essentially a nomad who led more from the sidelines and started grassroot-type movements. I swear that somewhere it says (I can't find where) that the Istari were sent to Middle Earth to aid in the fight against Sauron, but they were not supposed to directly challenge him.
A couple of other random comments... People keep saying that Gandalf didn't die - it was always my understanding that he did die, but was essentially reincarnated as the person Saruman could/should have been, because the Istari had not completed their task of defeating Sauron (see "The White Rider" chapter of The Two Towers). It was my understanding that the wizards were like Elves - they could be killed in battle, but they would never just die of old age.
And just so we can all feel like nerds - I'm almost positive that the only place it is actually spelled out that Gandalf is a Maia is in the index of the Silmarillion... Yay, nerdiness!  
This post has been edited by chiara515: Jun 17 2008, 12:55 AM
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In memory of the constant through so much of my life,
and the spark who made us smile through the worst days.
Know that you both will always be deeply loved and missed. |
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Jun 17 2008, 03:44 PM
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Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit
Posts: 2,420
Joined: 10:52pm March 5, 2007
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QUOTE(chiara515 @ Jun 16 2008, 10:53 PM) And just so we can all feel like nerds - I'm almost positive that the only place it is actually spelled out that Gandalf is a Maia is in the index of the Silmarillion... Yay, nerdiness!
Yay, nerdiness!! I have never read Silmarillion, must add it to my list.
I really appreciate all the posts in here, and I loved the differences between Gandalph and Dumbledore that were pointed out by schopenhauerfan . I had considered Gandalph to be very similar to Dumbledore, and it was a surprise to see how different they really are.
For me, I think it is the general manner in which they take charge that makes them similar. They are both so cool under pressure, and don't seem to lose their sense of humor. I just re-read the part where Gandalph introduces Beorn to the dwarves...two and a time..and something about the dialogue was very Dumbledorey. Or is it something about Dumbledore's dialogue in Professor Slughorn's home that is very Gandalphey?
I think it is difficult to compare the two on the basis of power, though, because the way their magic works is so different. In a battle, I think I would take Dumbledore, since Gandalph very nearly didn't come out of the Warg incident.
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Jun 18 2008, 11:19 AM
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Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man
Posts: 9,890
Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005
Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape
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QUOTE(chiara515 @ Jun 17 2008, 03:53 AM) People keep saying that Gandalf didn't die - it was always my understanding that he did die, but was essentially reincarnated as the person Saruman could/should have been, because the Istari had not completed their task of defeating Sauron (see "The White Rider" chapter of The Two Towers). It was my understanding that the wizards were like Elves - they could be killed in battle, but they would never just die of old age. This is true. 
I guess I should have said that Gandalf is seemingly immortal. He does die because if I recall correctly, he says to Pippin that death isnt so bad, green valleys & stuff.
But, Gandalf is seemingly immortal or can pass from one life to another, in the sense that he's killed by the Balrog, like killed in battle, but he comes back as Gandalf the White.
Which I guess could be seen as a similarity between DD & Gandalf because they are both killed in combat, experience death, yet both come back. Gandalf is reincarnated and DD *lives* as a sentient thinking spirit of his former self, on some alternate plane.
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I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J. When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan
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