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Hidden Sexism and Gender Roles in HP, Are Males and Females Equal? |
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 Jul 24 2008, 01:00 PM
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Neville is Simply Purrrfect
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Rowling's Potterverse always seems to raise interesting topics for discussion. In her portrayal of men and women in the series, do you think Rowling is very traditional in describing male and female behavior, or is there an underlying, hidden element of sexism?
For example, the lovable Molly Weasley; sure she extinguished the life of Bellatrix, but is her character portrayed in an all too traditional manner? How about Hermione; she is the brain of the trio and is certainly intelligent; but why so much focus on her intellectual talents and not her bravery?
What about the trio and their interactions with each other. Didn't Hermione call Harry sexist? Was Ron being fair when he complained about Hermione's cooking in DH, and telling her that she did the cooking because she was the best at it?
How about the Marauders; Sirius, James and Remus? They can be perceived as a group of swashbuckling, arrogant males, full of machismo. Is this a fair assessment?
So, what do you think, are males and females portrayed equally in the series?
Have fun 
This post has been edited by lirene: Jul 25 2008, 03:50 PM
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Jul 29 2008, 03:38 PM
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Disgruntled House-Elf at The Leaky Cauldron
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Location: shopping in Diagon Alley
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This is an interessing topic 
I think that the Potterverse is much like the real world when it comes to this issue, we see men and woman are generally equal, but there are the thypical womanly and manly traits we recognise from our world, like take Mrs. Weasøey as an example, she is often the thypical woman character, she is a stay-at-home mum, she's responsible for most of the cooking, washing in the house, a thypical housewife, but we also see she participates in the war, and even kill Bellatrix. But I believe the way she is, is just in her nature, she is a very loving, motherly, protective person, If she wanted a different life, I think she could have that, but the life she's got is probably what she wanted! Then there are other characters that differs more from the general gender roles, like Ginny, who has a sharp tongue, gladly takes on a fight, tough, plays quiddich(sport) but also has certain female characteristics. Or Luna who are care little for appearance, unmindful, independent, brave.
There are often occations where we can see some degree of sexism in the books, for instance:
- Ron saying in GoF something like it beeing sad for a girl to show up at the yule ball alone
- Ginny beeing refused to join the final battle by her parents. Mrs. Weasley "I won't permit it! The boys, yes, but you, yo've got to go home!" Now I don't believe it was entierly the fact that she was underage that made them denie her fighting.
- The way Fred and George and Ron act when Ginny gets a boyfriend.
- The whole half-blood prince buisness, them believeing a girl couldn't have made the spells etc. (though it was pretty far fetched with there beeing Prince there)
So I think there are certain gender roles, and a bit of sexism in Potterverse, but the facts are that, like it or not, men and woman often has certain traits associated with their gender, and though you can't label every woman/ man a certain way, but as the whole femal/male population, you will see certain features are more prominent with men/woman, so the thypical gender roles will remain.
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One who doesn't have determenation doesn't have a future...
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Jul 29 2008, 04:06 PM
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Gringott's Security Goblin
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Location: UK
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QUOTE(Pleione @ Jul 29 2008, 09:23 PM)  QUOTE(luna_sparkle @ Jul 29 2008, 02:07 PM) Did anyone find that Tonks got a lot more flak than Remus for going into the Battle? Everyone complains that because of that she left Teddy motherless, but no one minds that Remus left Teddy fatherless. Looking to the books, we know Harry minded. Of course it was prior to the Battle of Hogwarts, but recall the scene in the kitchen at 12GP where Harry and Remus got into the argument over Remus wanting to leave his family and help the trio. To me, that's a pretty clear message about where Remus was needed and how important his love and support were to his family. There have been charges of gender stereotypes and hidden sexism since the HP series first came out and people were asking why it was Harry instead of Harrietta Potter.
I understand that, but I found it sexist that online certain people kept berating the fact that Tonks went and fought but had no problems with the fact that Remus did. I wasn't trying to say that the book was sexist.
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 The signature pic is credit to theonlysong and given to me by Ioli. |
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Jul 29 2008, 09:23 PM
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Fudge-Maker at Florean Fortescue's
Posts: 2,237
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QUOTE(lirene @ Jul 24 2008, 06:00 PM) So, what do you think, are males and females portrayed equally in the series?
QUOTE(keola sombra @ Jul 29 2008, 08:38 PM) I think that the Potterverse is much like the real world when it comes to this issue, we see men and woman are generally equal, but there are the typical womanly and manly traits we recognise from our world,
I think male and female characters are accurately portrayed in the series by comparison to our society.
In general men and women are equally capable. But as is true of all individuals some are better at certain things than others, so by that logic, some men would be better at certain things than some women and contrariwise, some women would be better at certain things than some men and similarly some women would be better at certain things than some women and some men would be better at certain things than some men. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Look at Hagrid: He cooks(badly but still...) he knits and he darns his own socks.
Look at Amelia Bones: She's a high ranking government official and an extremely powerful witch.
I think the Wizarding world accurately reflects the real one, in fact it may even be socially more advanced. When I first read GoF I didn't realise the chasers on the Irish national team were witches  I was accustomed to sports such as soccer where the teams are singe-sex and popular sports are male dominated. That is a society more porgressive than our own. But you can also look at the first time Harry encountered the Slytherin team and noted that there were no girl players. This is consitent with what we know of Slytherins as traditionalists and supremists.
As in our own society, the WW features both equality and sexism. So I don't think Jo's writing is sexist but the individuals she writes about may be, which is what makes her writing so realistic despite the nature of the stories as being so fantastical.
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Jul 29 2008, 10:31 PM
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary
Posts: 486
Joined: 1:37pm September 7, 2007
Location: Azkaban, Practicing my Patronus
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QUOTE(lirene @ Jul 24 2008, 06:00 PM) Rowling's Potterverse always seems to raise interesting topics for discussion. In her portrayal of men and women in the series, do you think Rowling is very traditional in describing male and female behavior, or is there an underlying, hidden element of sexism?
Interesting lead and question/thread, Irene.
The thread's title suggests hidden, rather than outright obvious sexism. It also seems to suggest that sexism is the same as gender identification, which is how one identifies one's own self in relation to the concept of gender.
If this is correct, then indeed, Irene, you have correctly pointed out how amazingly brilliant our author truly is. JK Rowling is brutally obvious with the sexist Gaunt family's portayal of gender heirarchy within the purest of blood lines (HBP), as well as with the Dumbledore/Grindewald "altercation" at Godric's Hollow (DH).
I admit that I do not follow mysteries, but I have tried to rack my brain through her website on a number of occasions. JK Rowling is a master at "well-placed" clues and leads.
Taken in a religious connotation (which Harry's "choice" regarding the Hallows seems to make very clear), gender roles throughout the series can perhaps be understood as more symbolic of "character traits," rather than suggesting the identification and removal of harmful stereotypes, and discrimination.
Therefore, the discussion regarding Abandonment (which may have perhaps both "male" and "female" connotations), is best carried out under two separate points of view. This may be exemplified not only by a targeted examination of Tonks' role in the Final Battle; but also by that of Remus Lupin, earlier at 12 Grimmauld (as a thread in General Discussion clearly expresses).
Finally, if Molly worked for the MoM, and if Arthur was a "Stay at Home Dad," couldn't they still have functioned well in these respective roles??? Just a thought.
ELC
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In troubled times, it is often better to remember simple pleasures - family, virtue, and character - rather than to succumb to the woesome distractions of desire, defeat, and disillusionment. ELC
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Jul 31 2008, 09:17 AM
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper
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Joined: 2:26pm July 3, 2006
Location: Living quietly next to the Potter family :-)
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I tend to agree with the general concensus here, which seems to be that the Wizarding World is an accurate reflection of the world we live in. Women have come a long way in their battle for equality (further in some places than others), but we still have a long way to go. i think there is an underlying thread of sexism, of the emphasis on certainl male or female qualities or behaviors, not because Jo is trying to emphasize those things, but because the world we live in would point out or emphasize those same things.
I do think Jo has gone out of her way to remove things like race or gender roles as much as possible in the books. Look at the brewhaha a few years ago when Jo was criticied about the appearance of Hermione and how the trio are all beautiful and fit etc. Jo very accurately pointed out that the visual representations we have of the characters have almost officially moved from her descriptions in the books to the film actors. Jo has consciously tried, I believe, to support the notion that anyone from any background can do great things if they want to. Neville is the perfect example. We see Neville grow from this sweet, bumbling comic foil to the leader of the student resistance who ultimately facilitates Harry's victory over Voldemort. And, Ginny! Ginny is so often referred to in OOTP, HBP and DH as an extremely powerful witch, even as an adolescent. Would I have liked Jo to give her a bigger role in the final battle? Absolutely! But, we still see her fighting alongside Harry and the others. She disobeys the direct order from Molly and stays to fight for her family (present and future). Not a traditional girl thing to do.
The long and the short of it boils down to this: if Potterverse were absolutely free of those dynamics that exist in our society that continue to prevent regular people from succeeding, things like sexism and racism and poverty, than the story itself would not be so compelling. It would not be nearly such an emotional and engaging story of triumph over adversity when poor little orphan Harry, belittled and abused by the only family he has, rises up to become the defeater of the greates threat the wizarding world has ever faced, with the help of his greatest friends, a muggle girl and the forgotten son of an extremely poor family. Without those understood challenges that Harry and Ron and Hermione all face to come together, we probably wouldn't be here debating the effect of sexism on the storyline, because the series wouldn't be what it is.
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