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What if they had managed to detain Pettigrew ....... |
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 Aug 13 2008, 08:23 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup
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Well, Sirius of course would have been declared innocent. And Peter would have been imprisoned at the least, if not given the kiss. But we also have to remember that it was Peter who found Lord Voldemort in the forest in Albania and helped him take steps to regain power. So Voldemort might not have risen again at all, or at the very least it would've taken several more years.
At the very least the events of GoF wouldn't have happened, because Peter would have never caught Bertha Jorkins and brought her to Voldemort, so he wouldn't have gotten information on the Triwizard Tournament.
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"--yet, sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often. Best to say nothing at all, my dear man."
"You look in excellent health, Potter, so you will excuse me if I don't let you off homework tonight. I assure you that if you die, you need not hand it in."
“We teachers are rather good at magic, you know.”
Avatar art by LunaJane on deviantART.
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Aug 14 2008, 06:33 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf
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Location: Telephone box, Wagga Wagga
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QUOTE(to elf-made wine @ Aug 14 2008, 11:23 AM)  Well, Sirius of course would have been declared innocent. And Peter would have been imprisoned at the least, if not given the kiss. But we also have to remember that it was Peter who found Lord Voldemort in the forest in Albania and helped him take steps to regain power. So Voldemort might not have risen again at all, or at the very least it would've taken several more years.
At the very least the events of GoF wouldn't have happened, because Peter would have never caught Bertha Jorkins and brought her to Voldemort, so he wouldn't have gotten information on the Triwizard Tournament.
Could you be really sure of this outcome? At the end of GOF Fudge got Barty Crouch Jnr kissed by a dementor, after which he couldn't give evidence. What is the betting that he would have done the same to Peter Pettigrew without releasing Sirius Black?
I agree that had Severus Snape been prepared to believe Remus and Sirius that there would have been a better chance of Wormtail being brought to justice. But he wasn't and there was no reason why Fudge was prepared to believe that Wormtail was alive either. I'd also agree that Voldemort might have had to wait a bit longer to arise. But eventually, by hook or by crook he would have arisen, even without Wormtail's help.
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Aug 14 2008, 08:19 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup
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QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Aug 14 2008, 06:33 AM) Could you be really sure of this outcome? At the end of GOF Fudge got Barty Crouch Jnr kissed by a dementor, after which he couldn't give evidence. What is the betting that he would have done the same to Peter Pettigrew without releasing Sirius Black?
I agree that had Severus Snape been prepared to believe Remus and Sirius that there would have been a better chance of Wormtail being brought to justice. But he wasn't and there was no reason why Fudge was prepared to believe that Wormtail was alive either. I'd also agree that Voldemort might have had to wait a bit longer to arise. But eventually, by hook or by crook he would have arisen, even without Wormtail's help.
While it is true that Fudge certainly could have the kiss performed on Peter immediately, I'm not so sure that he would. He'd most likely be confused about what was going on, what with a supposedly long dead Peter Pettigrew showing up. Perhaps confused enough to allow some time for explanations. I do believe the dementors had a standing order to give Sirius the kiss if he was found, but not so for Peter. Also, in PoA Fudge did not immediately perform the kiss on Sirius, but gave Dumbledore time to talk to him and such. So why would he immediatly perform the kiss on Peter, especially when he is even less certain about what is going on?
And I completely agree with you that Voldemort would have risen again somehow. And when he did rise it might not have been in the favorable condition that it was in GoF. Harry was lucky to be able to report that Voldemort had risen back to Dumbledore, who reunited the Order within an hour. If he had risen later in a different fashion no one might have found out about it and enabled the Order to reform, which could be devastating.
But then again, can we be quite sure that Voldemort would have risen again later? Dumbledore had been on Voldemort's tail about horcruxes ever since he found about the diary in CoS. What if Dumbledore succeeded in destroying all the horcruxes before Voldemort rose again? Would his "spirit" that was wandering simply disappear?
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"--yet, sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often. Best to say nothing at all, my dear man."
"You look in excellent health, Potter, so you will excuse me if I don't let you off homework tonight. I assure you that if you die, you need not hand it in."
“We teachers are rather good at magic, you know.”
Avatar art by LunaJane on deviantART.
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Aug 18 2008, 06:21 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf
Posts: 4,116
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QUOTE(The Whomping Willow @ Aug 15 2008, 08:51 PM) In addition to all of this, if Voldemort had 'risen' anyway Pettigrews involuntary act of 'kindness' may not have saved Harry in DH.
In other words, Pettigrew's escape was meant to be. Trelawney's prophecy certainly indicated as much. And as events unfolded that evening, there was no chance of a different outcome. If it had been possible that Pettigrew could be detained then there would have been a completely different story. Maybe several different outcomes to the series.
1. Voldemort's rise would have been delayed, if not stopped
2. Sirius may or may not have been exonerated
3. Pettigrew would not have been able to lend a hand to recreate Voldemort's body. And he would later have had to choke Harry with both his normal hands if by some miracle he survived and participated in later events.
4. Bertha Jorkins would not have been waylaid and killed
Any other possibilities?
What might have happened anyway, even if Pettigrew was detained?
This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Aug 19 2008, 06:21 AM
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Aug 19 2008, 09:20 AM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary
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Location: In a bowling alley with my boss.
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QUOTE What might have happened anyway, even if Pettigrew was detained?
I agree that Voldemort would have risen again somehow. There would have been some foolish wizard or witch who would have strayed to close to him like Quirrell had and been taken advantage of. Like Voldemort himself said, there would have been plenty who would have opened up to him in return for power.
I don't know if seeing Pettigrew alive would have convinced Fudge of Sirius' innocence though. admitting that would be saying that the Ministry had been wrong, wouldn't it ? Moreover, Pettigrew told the truth in the shack, but would he have been 'cooperative' in front of Fudge with no Remus or Sirius threatening him ?
On another note, if we go by the theory that Trelawney's prediction would have come true even if Pettigrew hadn't escaped, then maybe some other DE would have broken out of Azkaban that night. Maybe Bellatrix. *shudder* Imagine that woman loose even before she was. 
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Aug 19 2008, 11:49 AM
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Dominating the world, one poking stick at a time
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Location: Treating Patients at St. Mungo's Who Have Been Zapped With The Wrath Of Litene
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QUOTE(rowena r @ Aug 19 2008, 09:20 AM) On another note, if we go by the theory that Trelawney's prediction would have come true even if Pettigrew hadn't escaped, then maybe some other DE would have broken out of Azkaban that night. Maybe Bellatrix. *shudder* Imagine that woman loose even before she was.
Under the circumstances though, I really can't see how Pettigrew wouldn't have escaped. It was such chaos at the moment and as a rat, it was so easy for him to get away. The fact that Harry didn't outright kill Peter after he learned the truth about his betraying the Potters was a testament to Harry's good heart, so in the end Rowling's message was very clear. Those with a good heart do ultimately get rewarded, even if the journey to get there is a tough one 
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