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Alchemy In Harry Potter, Thread IV
hpaddict
post Apr 27 2006, 08:49 PM
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And so it begins anew...

Old thread can be found here

(here's hoping this new link works!)


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This post has been edited by hpaddict: Apr 28 2006, 10:43 AM


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Weasle Diva
post Apr 28 2006, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE
My problem with this is that so many scholars say that there are so few that are worthy of this journey. I think that in LV's case he thinks he's an alchemists..They say that the Stone is attainable, but not many can get it. I can see the idea of the alchemists journey in a reverse, But what would he have been in the beginning? He would have went from enlightenment to base matter, which does not make any sense to me...


Harry's journey starts from base materials then he goes through the steps, qualifying at each level.

Voldemort's journey starts from base materials as well. However, Voldemort decided that he has achieved the stone when he completed the horcruxes. At that point, he thought he was "enlightened" and had all the answers.

However, from the cauldron rebirth in book four to the current storyline, he is going backwards. You don't start with a resurrection. It's a cinch that he will end up just base materials and probably no soul, let alone an enlightened soul.
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memyslfnI
post Apr 28 2006, 06:18 PM
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But Tom Riddle was never worthy of the journey....That is what makes his journey so perverse I guess.

So we have one boy who is the stone, (born from the red king-James and the white queen -Lilly..or the original quareling couple) but this stone is still in its raw form..Anyd we have another boy who "thinks" he is worthy of the journey and was never at all. As a result the "chosen one" is making the right choices and going throught the proper steps and is achieving the end result and another boy who is not the chosen one but thinks he is and as a result is now going in reverse


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flipendo
post Apr 28 2006, 08:28 PM
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I'm still lurking, completely lost, in this thread--there is so much to think about!!! And Arianhrod, your essays are amazing! I loved reading (and I'm still trying to grasp) your Part II. Brilliant work!! clap.gif

I searched through the recent posts so I hope I'm crediting the origin correctly here; I'm intrigued by memyslfnI's thoughts regarding Tom's/LV's journey being the alchemical process in reverse (or at least that's how I interpreted it). So I did a Google search for 'reverse alchemy process' and received lots of interesting links.

There is this URL, In the Hands of Alchemy: Lightening, that has this to say (bolded for emphasis):
QUOTE
Finding and acquiring things at the dump is an alchemical process. One must go about it with great care. The particular gods one needs to call up, once the object of choice has been spotted at the dump, are probably in the category of hungry-ghost gods. One must be indifferent to the outcome of any attempted purchase when calling on their help. Too strong a desire renders these gods insatiable; they can easily sabotage the haggling process. Excessive desire creates a reverse alchemy that can work against you.

Has this angle been discussed, yet? It does seem as though Tom Riddle, in the process of becoming Lord Voldemort, did experience an excess of desire.

I'm currently reading through this PDF, http://www.endabuse.org/programs/healthcare/files/HA_8_1.pdf, about Reverse Alchemy in Childhood; "...going from a normal newborn with almost unlimited potential to a diseased, depressed adult..." Now, doesn't that spark an interest, or what?!


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Arianhrod
post Apr 29 2006, 10:50 AM
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Wow, that's interesting, flipendo! The link to the PDF isn't working, though. I'll try again later sad.gif

Most of the links to the "reverse alchemy" theme are psychological in nature--and that fits with the idea that not only is LV a very bad guy but he's also mentally ill. How does a child--"gold"--turn into lead? I'm going to look some more on that subject and I'll let you know if I find anything.

Just to back up for one second, madamros sent me a PM yesterday about the eclipse of 1999:
QUOTE
Didn't want to post this info in the alchemy thread, as you've moved way past the topic, but I recently came across a leaflet on the 1999 eclipse (we still have the eclipse viewing glasses!) The eclipse date was Wednesday 11th August (my memory amazes me sometimes!) Total Eclipse was only visible in the far South West of Cornwall and a part of South Devon (and the Channel Isles etc!). 95% eclipse was visible in South Wales, Bristol, London (and my part of the country). Northern England had 85% eclipse. My leaflet doesn't include Scotland, but presumably some percentage of the eclipse was visible from there.

Interestingly enough, Ginny's birthday is August 11. I wonder if that's a coincidence.






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Alchemist Appren...
post Apr 30 2006, 01:06 AM
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Hi all!
Ok flipendo, remember curiousity killed the cat- it was answers that brought him back! (I always have questions lol.gif )

Such as...
Ginny's name if I remember correctly has to do with foam- white foam of the sea...now aren't the tides effected(affected I always confuse them)by the cycles of the moon?
Luna is the closer tie to moon in name...So does Luna somehow influence Ginny?



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susurrous
post Apr 30 2006, 07:19 AM
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QUOTE(doobie @ Apr 30 2006, 06:06 AM) [snapback]806131[/snapback]
Ginny's name if I remember correctly has to do with foam- white foam of the sea...now aren't the tides effected(affected I always confuse them)by the cycles of the moon?
Luna is the closer tie to moon in name...So does Luna somehow influence Ginny?


Ginny's name is an anagram - Ginevra/Vinegar. Vinegar was also an alchemic ingredient.


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Arianhrod
post May 1 2006, 11:21 AM
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Ginny's name in Celtic means "white foam." Foam or other dry earth agent is the only thing that can put out a sulfuric acid fire (vitriol=Snape). It's also the Italian form of Guinevere, which means "white," (gwen) and "smooth." From Gwenhyfar, Arthur's wife.

This post has been edited by Arianhrod: May 1 2006, 11:25 AM


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memyslfnI
post May 1 2006, 05:15 PM
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This source has a bit on "alchemical vinigar....

QUOTE
Alchemical vinegar is the "water that kills and vivifies". It transmutes the vehicle of consciousness the body, into the vehicle of consciousness the spirit. This involves the separation of body and soul, as vehicles of consciousness. Note that purification is associated with separation. Remember also that the Emerald Tablet associates the process of separation (Earth from Fire/ subtle from gross) "with great judgement and skill", with the three ascending steps from the Below to the Above.
--> --> --->
And thereupon followeth the mixture, observe!
And so it cometh to a wondrous strength,
The finished figures with the unfinished.
And if the fire be likewise rightly controlled,
It will be entirely perfect
In much less time than a year.


If Ginerva=Vinegar, which by the way is facinating sussurous! The seperation part is interesting...Is it Ginny that takes Harry to the "next level"? He goes from the conciusness of the body to the concousness of the spirit.. It would be interesting if at this juncture, Harry who finally finds Ginny in book six will finally be perfect within a year (end of book 7)


This post has been edited by memyslfnI: May 1 2006, 05:15 PM


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Weasle Diva
post May 1 2006, 05:52 PM
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I am currently re-reading the Green Lion trilogy by Teresa Edgerton.
The titles of the three books are
Child of Saturn
The Moon in Hiding
The Work of the Sun


In the first book, there are chapter titles such as:
Encounter with a Dragon
Mercury of the Philosophers
Of Gold as Well as base Metals
A Casket of Bones

What is not to love, as the budding alchemists we are, with these titles smile.gif

There is a chapter called, "Game of Cat and Mouse." This got me to wondering, is there any significance, alchemically, to the symbols of cat and mouse/rat?

A lion is a type of cat, of course, but rat?

In Alice in Wonderland, which is very alchemical, we have the cheshire cat and the doormouse.

From Alice in Wonderland:
QUOTE
Who ARE you talking to?' said the King, going up to Alice, and looking at the Cat's head with great curiosity.

`It's a friend of mine--a Cheshire Cat,' said Alice: `allow me to introduce it.'

`I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: `however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'

`I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.

`Don't be impertinent,' said the King, `and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.

`A cat may look at a king,' said Alice. `I've read that in some book, but I don't remember where.'

`Well, it must be removed,' said the King very decidedly, and he called the Queen, who was passing at the moment, `My dear! I wish you would have this cat removed!'

Well, it must be removed,' said the King. Scabbers was here first! smile.gif

Also from Alice in Wonderland:
QUOTE
QUOTE
MOUSE'S LONG AND SAD TALE

`Fury said to a
mouse, That he
met in the
house,
"Let us
both go to
law: I will
prosecute
YOU. --Come,
I'll take no
denial; We
must have a
trial: For
really this
morning I've
nothing
to do."
Said the
mouse to the
cur, "Such
a trial,
dear Sir,
With
no jury
or judge,
would be
wasting
our
breath."
"I'll be
judge, I'll
be jury,"
Said
cunning
old Fury:
"I'll
try the
whole
cause,
and
condemn
you
to
death."


Edit: The "Long and Sad Tale, came out funny. The original has the story in a crooked tail-like formation
Mouse to the cur/dog: Pettigrew to Sirius? This includes trial and punishment.


This post has been edited by Weasle Diva: May 1 2006, 05:55 PM
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