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Alchemy In Harry Potter, Thread IV
hpaddict
post Apr 27 2006, 08:49 PM
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And so it begins anew...

Old thread can be found here

(here's hoping this new link works!)


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This post has been edited by hpaddict: Apr 28 2006, 10:43 AM


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marielle
post May 9 2006, 09:31 PM
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The hand of glory first appeared in COS when Draco and Lucius were at Borgin and Burkes, Draco wanted his father to buy it, but he didn't, saying he had greater hope for his son to become a theif.


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Arianhrod
post May 10 2006, 01:25 PM
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Okay, I knew there was a Hand of Glory in there somewhere! smile.gif

I found something interesting on the Hand of Glory. It was supposed to turn its owner invisible, but the preparation involved some alchemic ingredients:

QUOTE
Piper longum (Piper officinarum)

Long pepper is related to the more familiar peppercorn, but it is hotter and at the same time a bit sweeter. This magick herb has interesting possibilities for incense, especially for times when you want the sweeter side of Mars - such as for works involving sex magick (interestingly, long pepper is still considered an aphrodisiac in Ayurvedic medicine and is mentioned in a rather dangerous (and painful) recipe in the Kama Sutra. In Indian astrology, long pepper is associated not with Mars but with the Sun and helps in the cultivation of independence, courage, self-esteem, and strength of will. In Persian astrological magick, long pepper was connected with the "great sinister Saturn." And in European magick, long pepper also has baneful associations - for instance, it was part of the recipe for preparing the fabled Hand of Glory. A dead man's hand (the hands of criminals were preferred) was squeezed in a cloth, usually a strip of shroud, to get the blood out. The hand was put into an earthenware jar with salt, salt petre (or nitre), long pepper, and verdigris (copper oxide) for two weeks to dry it out and to preserve it, then it was dried further in the sun during the dog days of summer (that is, under the Dog Star, Sirius, which often watches over baneful work and is in conjunction with the Sun in the period mid-July to early August). When the hand was finally dry enough, it was used as a candleholder rather than being lit itself. The Hand of Glory was said to make the owner invisible and to paralyze anyone who saw it, so it was very desirable amongst professional housebreakers. The picture shows an actual Hand of Glory from a British museum.


http://www.alchemy-works.com/herb_long_pepper.html

Interestingly, the criminal from which the Hand of Glory was made was usually a Hanged Man.


This post has been edited by coach: May 10 2006, 01:56 PM


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You_wont_know_wh...
post May 10 2006, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE(marielle @ May 10 2006, 02:31 AM) [snapback]816755[/snapback]

The hand of glory first appeared in COS when Draco and Lucius were at Borgin and Burkes, Draco wanted his father to buy it, but he didn't, saying he had greater hope for his son to become a theif.

Perhaps Draco stole it? Or maybe he bought it with stolen money? It would be very much like him - get what you want with any means.

QUOTE
Interestingly, the criminal from which the Hand of Glory was made was usually a Hanged Man.

Every time I drop in here, I find just amazing things. Isn't the village of the Riddle familly called Little Hangleton? And the bigger town next to it Great Hangleton? I mean, who important was hanged there? It must have been a prominent figure to give the name for the places. Or maybe it was a widley known place of execution by hanging? Just amazing....


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Arianhrod
post May 10 2006, 02:28 PM
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That's an interesting connection, you won't know who. I hadn't thought of that one. What I was thinking was the Hanged Man from Tarot--there's a pub by that name in Hogsmeade (? I think), and Snape got "hanged" in OOTP when James put the Levicorpus spell on him in Snape's Worst Memory. The Norse god Odin also hung upside down from a tree for 9 days to learn the secrets of the runes. Odin's counterpart is Hermes of Greek myth and Hermes Trismegistus or Thoth of the Egyptian--and it's Thoth who wrote the Emerald Tablet. Taking that one step further, Dumbledore is probably the Thoth of the Potterverse. He sacrificed himself for the greater good. The question is: Will Snape do the same?

The Hanged Man in tarot represents self-sacrifice:
QUOTE
It is a card of profound but veiled significance. Its symbolism points to divinity, linking it to the death of Christ in Christianity and the stories of Osiris (Egyptian Mythology) and Mithras (Roman Mythology). In all of these stories, the destruction of self brings life to humanity; on the card, these are symbolized respectively by the hanged man and the living tree from which he swings. Hence, the Hanged Man represents the sanctity of all existence and its need for salvation by self-sacrifice.

A simpler but deeper meaning resides in the journey of life [...] The Hanged Man is the initiate into mysteries. He understands the truth because he sees it from a different angle.

The Hanged Man is every hero committed enough to the adventure to die for it.

The Hanged Man’s association with the Empress can be ennobling or pathological. If the Empress is the object of desire, the Hanged Man is the one who desires. That desire can be destructively consuming or defining. If the Hanged Man appears with the Empress, it can signal consuming longing.

When he appears in a throw, he often signals a past sacrifice (of the Querant or otherwise) whose energy is either still enriching the Querant’s life or being misspent. He can also represent a sacrifice the Querant is being set up to make. That can be a good thing (initiating the Querant into the mysteries, saving the world) or not so much (duping the Querant into an unwise sacrifice). He may also signal something (usually not cheery) about the person’s relationship with their partner or parent.



Bold mine, from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hanged_Man

That sounds like Snape to me.





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Pat_Rorrythe
post May 10 2006, 03:28 PM
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QUOTE(Arianhrod @ May 10 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]817451[/snapback]

That sounds like Snape to me.


Mmmh, interesting ! on the french wikipedia, it is said also that "Very large is its force, not the one of the muscles but the one exerted by the occult capacity of its heart which exceeded the initiatory phase." Ron too was once under the levicorpus spell. He could be another candidate for sacrifying himself, but has not this occult power of the soul as Snape does.


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Weasle Diva
post May 10 2006, 05:35 PM
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What do you mean by occult power of the soul? Is this an alchemy term? Just curious.

Rowling has a lot of pairs to contrast: red/green, Malfoys vs. Weasleys, Gryffindor vs. Slytherin to name a few.

We could have two Hanged Man tarot guys to contrast, I suppose. The card has good and bad connotations.

There are people who use levicorpus and those who were hanged.
Users: Snape, Harry, James, Dudley (Sort-of: he hung Harry upside down in the toilet)
Hanged: Snape, Harry, Ron, Muggles at the World Cup

Harry and Snape are on both lists.

I wonder if the murderer who was hanged in Little Hangleton is the Original owner of the Hand of Glory?

P.S. I read somewhere that mandrakes grow under the gallows of a hanged man and also that there is some kind of relationship between mandrakes and homonuclus (sp?) since both are "little men."

Also the thing about "Hand of Glory" is that the phrase sounds Biblical, then I find out that it is this creepy murderer's hand when you study up on the term.

BibleGateway rounded up all these "hand glory"
references for me:
Exodus 33:22
When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by.Exodus 33:21-23 (in Context) Exodus 33 (Whole Chapter)
Job 29:20
My glory will remain fresh in me, the bow ever new in my hand.'Job 29:19-21 (in Context) Job 29 (Whole Chapter)
Psalm 19:1
[ For the director of music. A psalm of David. ] The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.Psalm 19:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 19 (Whole Chapter)
Ezekiel 39:21
"I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them.
Ezekiel 39:20-22 (in Context) Ezekiel 39 (Whole Chapter)
Habakkuk 2:16
You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed ! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.Habakkuk 2:15-17 (in Context) Habakkuk 2 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 7:55
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
...Speaking of martyr!
Acts 7:54-56 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter)
Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.Hebrews 1:2-4 (in Context) Hebrews 1 (Whole Chapter)

We have a murderer's hand providing light for an almost murderer-to-be. Draco was planning murder when he used this item in HBP.

I bet we will probably have Harry, or one of the other good guy characters, using an uber patronus light to defeat the Dark Lord and/or the dementors. There has to be a Lord of Light somewhere.


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Pat_Rorrythe
post May 11 2006, 06:36 AM
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QUOTE(Weasle Diva @ May 10 2006, 11:35 PM) [snapback]817661[/snapback]

What do you mean by occult power of the soul? Is this an alchemy term? Just curious.


It is a wikipediatish expression lol.gif but of course the temptation is enorm to evoque the magic powers developped by the use of the soul in the astral world.



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post May 11 2006, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE
What I was thinking was the Hanged Man from Tarot--there's a pub by that name in Hogsmeade (? I think)

Nope, the Hanged Man was the village pub in Little Hangleton (GoF, first chapter), Arianhrod biggrin.gif
So everything seems to revolve around this place.
QUOTE
wonder if the murderer who was hanged in Little Hangleton is the Original owner of the Hand of Glory?

My thoughts exactly, Weasle lDiva. I would even ask: was the man's last name...Riddle?


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Arianhrod
post May 11 2006, 11:20 AM
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Oh, this is excellent, you guys (and gals)! Wow. That would mean that Little Hangleton, rather than Hogwarts, is Ground Zero. It would be perfectly in keeping with Tom's penchant for hording trophies if he took the Hand of Glory from his father. I don't think anyone has asked why or whether he collected a trophy from that murder. That killing would be significant; it represents the dissolution of Tom's link to his family--the man who gave him his looks and his name.

I'd completely forgotten about Ron being "hanged." Considering that he sacrificed himself in Book 1 so that Harry could move on, I really hope he doesn't do it again.

QUOTE
I bet we will probably have Harry, or one of the other good guy characters, using an uber patronus light to defeat the Dark Lord and/or the dementors. There has to be a Lord of Light somewhere.

I'm almost afraid to say this, but I think it might be Snape. We've equated Snape with Venus--vitriol. Venus and Lucifer are the same thing, and one of Lucifer's eptithets is "Bringer of Light" or "Lightbearer."




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Weasle Diva
post May 11 2006, 06:36 PM
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Actually when you think about it, the exact opposite of a Dark Lord would be a Lady of Light. Ginny is Harry's love interest which equals the influence of Venus. Alchemically, Venus' metal is copper and we have copper-haired Ginny.

I don't think Merope's main squeeze, TR the first, could be the hand of glory. He was killed by his son Voldy's AK, not hung for murder on a gallows.

Now, it makes sense that "Handy" Murderering Guy was a Riddle or Gaunt ancester. I think the good money would be on a Guant ancester since Voldy reveres the magic side of his heritage more. Also, murderers and thieves seem to fit the Gaunt profile.

I still think Ground Zero is Hogwarts. The readers care about what happens there. Besides, Voldy kicking up his feet on Dumbledore's desk and saying, "Mwahaha" gives the image of the complete triumph of the bad guys right before the good guys steal away victory on a wing and a prayer.

So with "occult power of the soul," do you mean like a Shaman's out-of-body experience? Where the individual goes on a quest, seeks, yet the soul is tethered to the body from the navel?

How does Snape have occult power of the soul?

Voldy has out-of-body experiences everytime he zaps a one-year old who is blood protected by his mum.

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