The Alethiometer, To measure the truth |
 Mar 17 2008, 05:47 AM
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Madame Pince's House Elf  Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release   |
THE GOLDEN COMPASS, ITSELF  The Master of Jordan College entrusts the Alethiometer to Lyra when she leaves Oxford to live with her mother. This golden instrument, so like a chronometer, barometer or compass, can be made to measure the truth. Skilled users can use the Alethiometer to make useful decisions about what they could do next, or to determine the fate of friends. This is a rare instrument which is much coveted. The ecclesiatical authorities who do have access to their own Alethiometer, encourage a priest to spend much time studying it. They want the knowledge to be gained from it to be confined to their own inner sanctums. But whilst Lyra, herself, quickly learns to use this instrument, she also has to guard it carefully. Mrs Coulter would like to lay her hands on it, and so would her Golden Monkey daemon. At various times Lyra appeals to the Alethiometer for guidance. Was this guidance accurate and useful help? Why does everyone else want to obtain the Alethiometer? Why not leave it with Lyra to work out? Is it a good idea to know the truth when on a quest? Does the Alethiometer provide Lyra with the sort of guidance a young girl would seek? Would Lyra have achieved as much without the Alethiometer? --------------------  Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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Mar 23 2008, 04:09 AM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher  Posts: 179 Joined: 6:07am January 24, 2008 Location: Australia |
Was this guidance accurate and useful help?
Generally it is accurate and useful help, when interpreted correctly. As we see, when Lyra is first learning to use the Alethiometer at the gyptian meeting, the death of the gyptian could have possibly been prevented if Lyra understood what it was telling her. So overall, I think it was helpful to have. Why does everyone else want to obtain the Alethiometer? Why not leave it with Lyra to work out? My theory about this is that at first, because everyone sees Lyra only as a child, they don't think she's capable of working the alethiometer and understanding what it's telling her (which we know is wrong  ). They might also just not want to risk her learning how to read it, or they might just want it because it's such a rare object to have.Is it a good idea to know the truth when on a quest? I think at times it can be extremely helpful to know what's coming, but at other times, it could be best to have no knowledge of what could be about to happen, as difficulties could arise due to this. Also, it seems to me that in a way it could be a bit like a prophecy, and by knowing what's going to happen, it could be what you do to prevent this event that causes the event to happen. Does the Alethiometer provide Lyra with the sort of guidance a young girl would seek? No, I don't think it provides Lyra with the sort of guidance she needs. For example, although young, she has no idea how to dress herself or how to look after herself properly, and the alethiometer doesn't tell her what she should do about that. Would Lyra have achieved as much without the Alethiometer? I don't think she would have achieved nearly as much without the alethiometer. She wouldn't have known where Iorek's armour was, she wouldn't have known about the "ghost" that was frightening the inhabitants of the small village...I could list more but I'm supposed to be writing a scientific report, so I'll leave it at that for now. -------------------- "It's not food anymore Dean, it's Darwinism!" - Sam Winchester  |
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Mar 25 2008, 02:10 AM
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 62 Joined: 10:54pm December 29, 2006 Location: Plano Hogwarts |
Was this guidance accurate and useful help?
Of course. There are many instances when the alethiometer saves her life. The first one that comes to mind is when Lyra uses it to convince Iofur that she is Iorek's deamon. Without it, Lyra wouldn't have gotten as far as she did. Why does everyone else want to obtain the Alethiometer? Why not leave it with Lyra to work out? Because everyone wants to know the truth. Lyra isn't going to go and tell everyone the truths they're looking for. Plus, some of those people hate the idea that little girl can read it, so they want to be able to read it for themselves...they think it can't be that hard if Lyra can do it. Is it a good idea to know the truth when on a quest? It certainly helps (see above). Of course, Lyra discovers she can't use the alethiometer whenever she wants. She needs to discover some things for herself. In those cases, I don't think the alethiometer even works very well for her. Does the Alethiometer provide Lyra with the sort of guidance a young girl would seek? It tells you the truth...it's not an encyclopedia. I think the alethiometer only tells you what you need to know, when you need to know it. If you ask it unnecessary and unimportant questions...well, I don't think Lyra would be able to develop that state of mind to ask the alethiometer every-day sort of questions. I think part of learning how to use the alethiometer is learning WHEN you're allowed to use it. It seems like a very picky little tool to me. Would Lyra have achieved as much without the Alethiometer? Not at all. It's clear she depended so much on the Alethiometer...just look at how she nearly breaks down when the alethiometer fails to work for her in Amber Spyglass. Would she have completed any of her quests? Maybe, but it would've taken much longer, and time was not on their side. |
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Mar 25 2008, 07:40 AM
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Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 60 Joined: 6:43am April 10, 2006 Location: NJ |
I agree with abstracted and Rinzy. The Alethiometer has its uses, but it wouldn't serve as an everyday guide. I think it was instrumental in helping Lyra move to the next step, but I doubt it would have helped her decide what dress to wear or how to fix her hair. As for why does everyone want it, well, I also think part of it has to do with people thinking that the Alethiometer would have answered ALL their questions. I doubt they realized that it was based on need and an overall plan.
-------------------- "While you are experimenting, do not remain content with the surface of things. Don't become a mere recorder of facts, but try to penetrate the mystery of their origin." Isabel Allende |
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Mar 25 2008, 05:28 PM
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#5
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Chief Mischief-Maker  Posts: 8,572 Joined: 5:07pm January 28, 2005 Location: The Marauder's Map never lies ... |
Was this guidance accurate and useful help?
I think that the Alethiometer provided Lyra with the guidance she needed at a very crucial time in her life. In essence, she was on a journey - and to me that journey was all about finding herself. She has to look inside herself for answers as well, and that's really important in the context of the story. Why does everyone else want to obtain the Alethiometer? Why not leave it with Lyra to work out? The Alethiometer is clearly a powerful instrument, and those who want it for themselves are unable to resist its "magnetic pull." It draws them like a moth to a flame. I also think that they underestimate Lyra because she is a child, very young, and "adults know best" .. which of course isn't the case in Northern Lights. Is it a good idea to know the truth when on a quest? I think it's always best to know the truth, no matter how hard that truth is to accept. It's a measure of maturity to be able to cope with reality and still move on with a quest, as Lyra does here. Does the Alethiometer provide Lyra with the sort of guidance a young girl would seek? Interesting question. I think that Lyra gets what she needs from the Alethiometer, but it's not a very practical instrument for her in the world she's used to .. i.e. the one she's left behind. When she returns from her adventures, she's a changed person, and a lot of that is down to what she has learned about herself. She has learned from the Alethiometer that it tells her the truth - and that it's up to her what she does with that knowledge, because every action has a reaction. Would Lyra have achieved as much without the Alethiometer? No, I don't think Lyra would have achieved quite as much ... although as she matures, she depends on it far less - and that's a good thing. The Alethiometer came in useful at some critical moments, but it also presented danger to Lyra, so at times I think perhaps she'd have been better off without it. -------------------- Proud Gryffindor
  and OPAST member"Hallows," murmured Dumbledore, "not Horcruxes. Precisely."  |
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Mar 25 2008, 06:58 PM
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Fortescue's Spoon Polisher  Posts: 3,628 Joined: 6:04pm November 6, 2005 |
QUOTE(Narya @ Mar 25 2008, 10:28 PM)  I think that the Alethiometer provided Lyra with the guidance she needed at a very crucial time in her life. In essence, she was on a journey - and to me that journey was all about finding herself. She has to look inside herself for answers as well, and that's really important in the context of the story. I agree that it gave Lyra the guidance she needed, and helped her to find answers within herself. It is accurate, to a certain extent, but Lyra has to interpret the answers she receives. I also think that the alethiometer helped Lyra to find herself. I agree with you that Lyra gets what she needs from the alethiometer. It didn't help her with practical things, such as how to dress, but it helped her with much more important things than that (can you imagine seeking fashion advice from a truth measurer? I'd hate to ask it the question: "Does my bum look big in this?"  ). It's not really everyone who wants the alethiometer, but only those greedy for the power that it would give them - they're all about who can gain the most knowledge and power. We see people like John Faa, Farder Coram, Lord Asriel, etc. resist the temptation to take the alethiometer from Lyra (even when it's freely offered, in Lord Asriel's case). Also, I think the Magisterium wants to restrict knowledge and truth. I think the biggest reason for those not wanting Lyra to have it is because they want it for themselves, and because they think they can put it to better use than an ignorant child. Though, later, IMO, the Magisterium want to take it from her when they find out that she's important so that they can try and restrict what she learns. QUOTE(Narya) I think it's always best to know the truth, no matter how hard that truth is to accept. It's a measure of maturity to be able to cope with reality and still move on with a quest, as Lyra does here. I also think it's best to know the truth, and be able to deal with it and move on with the quest. I don't think that it's possible for Lyra to know everything about her quest, though, by just being able to seek the truth. She has to ask a question to get an answer, so has to have some idea of what she wants to know - therefore she can't use the alethiometer to predict what will happen next. As abstracted said, the alethiometer does have it's limits, and Lyra does have to discover some things for herself. I find it fascinating, and kind of ironic, that reading the alethiometer came naturally to Lyra - someone who takes pride in coming up with stories and good lies. But, as discussed in the Lyra thread, I think that it was this lying that helped her to learn how to read it. Her imagination and open mind helped her apply all the different meanings/levels of the symbols, without trying to force her own interpretations on them. I also find it fascinating that the alethiometer seems to have a mind of it's own - which is later confirmed when we learn that there is a guiding force behind the Dust powering it. But, I just realised that this should probably wait until later books, so I don't spoil anyone! -------------------- |
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