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All's fair in love and war, Mundungus' roll call of cheating

WaggaWaggaWerewo... WaggaWaggaWerewolf View Member Profile	Oct 21 2008, 08:05 PM Post #1
Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,711 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 5, awaiting Deathly Hallow's release.	Mundungus Fletcher has never done an honest day's work in his life. But he still has to make a living, he says. His way of survival is one of cheating, thieving, lies, trickery and opportunism. In two previous books he has overestimated compensation due to him over the QWC riots, deserted his post for a shonky deal over stolen cauldrons and has regaled Ron, Fred and George with tales of his misdeeds. In HBP Mundungus remains true to form. He strips 12 Grimmauld Place of its Black silverware and winds up in Azkaban for impersonating an inferus. But Mundungus could also point out how many other people have behaved less than honestly in HBP, in particular. This thread is to help him find fellow wrongdoers, and to discuss them, especially among those who normally look as if butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. eg. - anyone else? How many examples of cheating can you find, and who are the culprits? Why were they cheating and how unethical were the people doing the cheating? What were the consequences of these examples of cheating? Which ones succeeded and which ones failed? Who did the most cheating in HBP? Why is Felix Felicis banned for use in elections, sport and examinations? Under what circumstances is it ok to break the rules? What about during a war or when one is in love? This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Oct 22 2008, 05:26 AM -------------------- Check out Book Number 5 POA edition.

Replies (1 - 5)

bunya dragon View Member Profile	Nov 2 2008, 09:29 PM Post #2
Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 213 Joined: 3:24am June 3, 2008 Location: Enjoying the latest HP book club	How many examples of cheating can you find, and who are the culprits? Harry of course. He cheated in Potions by using the Half-blood Prince's instructions to win the Felix Felicis, then he pretended to use the Felix Felicis on Ron so that he would have more confidence in himself as Gryffindor Keeper. Hermione cheated just as much. She confunded Cormac McLaggan so that Ron would remain as keeper on the Gryffindor team, then when Ron got cosy with Lavender instead, she went to the Christmas Party with Cormac to annoy Ron. Why were they cheating and how unethical were the people doing the cheating? Both were unethical not just Harry. They both were trying to get Ron to do what they wanted him to do. Hermione fancied Ron so cheated a bit but then she was annoying in thinking that she had the right to tell Harry what to do. What were the consequences of these examples of cheating? Harry did ok for a while when he used the HBP book. But when he hid the book away from Snape he wasn't as good at potions. Hermione got chased around the Christmas party by Cormac McLaggan and had to hide. Which ones succeeded and which ones failed? Not sure which form of cheating succeeded and which failed. Hermione might have been ok with Ron if she'd been less anxious to point out Harry's cheating. Why is Felix Felicis banned for use in elections, sport and examinations? Because it would give the taker an unfair advantage over other competitors which is cheating.

JohannMdlAmerica View Member Profile	Nov 10 2008, 05:52 PM Post #3
Spellotaping Monster Books of Monsters Posts: 2,489 Joined: 9:26am July 24, 2007 Location: I'm either in the Muggle Underground Forum or at the Hogwarts Express Roundhouse	QUOTE(bunya dragon @ Nov 2 2008, 08:29 PM) How many examples of cheating can you find, and who are the culprits? Harry of course. He cheated in Potions by using the Half-blood Prince's instructions to win the Felix Felicis, I absolutely disagree with this being cheating. Harry received an advantage to learning ... the ability to learn from someone elses not only mistakes, but also the final product... getting it right. This is not memory work ... it's how well the cook follows a recipe. Well, the recipe obviously could stand some huge improvement, Snape cracked the code, and left the info for others to follow. Harry took a tremendous risk in using Snape's notes in the Potions text (I still find it amusing that Snape put his potions text in the classroom spare pile). Those who risk much may well be rewarded much. This post has been edited by JohannMdlAmerica: Nov 10 2008, 05:53 PM -------------------- The last enemy to be destroyed is death-- First Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verse 26 The epitaph of James and Lily Potter

Sabrinita View Member Profile	Nov 10 2008, 06:17 PM Post #4
Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 72 Joined: 4:57pm July 23, 2008	How many examples of cheating can you find, and who are the culprits? Hermione Confunding Cormac McLaggen. Romilda Vane trying to get Harry's love by tainting chocolates with love potion. Same goes for Merope. Harry using Felix Felicis to obtain the memory from Slughorn. Not saying that these are all bad things, but you have to admit, they took shortcuts when it might have been possible to do it another way (albeit very unlikely in some cases). Why were they cheating and how unethical were the people doing the cheating? I don't think Hermione's was that unethical...she just made it easier for Harry to make a decision. He would have picked Ron anyway, she just helped Harry to justify his decision by Confunding Cormac. Romilda and Vane and Merope Gaunt-Riddle weren't being very ethical, they were in essence trying to (or actually succeeding in) tricking someone into loving them who otherwise probably never would have. If the effects that the potion had on Ron Weasley are true for everyone...man, that's actually kind of cruel to do. It's putting people under a spell that they have no choice but to obey. Harry's was pretty ethical as well, as the results eventually led to the fall of a certain evil wizard. =P What were the consequences of these examples of cheating? Ron was able to play for the Quidditch team, as everyone wanted, as a result of Hermione's cheating. Ron ended up eating Romilda's chocolates instead, which eventually lead to his poisoning at Slughorn's office. Who knows what would have happened had those tainted chocolates not been there? Merope Gaunt-Riddle lost her husband when she mistakenly thought he would fall in love with her through nonmagical means...and did this AFTER she was pregnant with their son. Not that I don't feel for poor Merope, but what she did was wrong. Finally, Harry...like I said, Harry learned of the existence of Voldie's horcruxes, and thus was able to take him down. Pretty good consequences if you ask me. Which ones succeeded and which ones failed? The two non love potion ones succeeded, and the two love potion ones failed (as in Romilda's case, the wrong person ate the chocolates, and in Merope's case, she mistakenly thought Tom Riddle would fall in love with her without the potion). Who did the most cheating in HBP? I don't think there's any one person who stands out above the others. Why is Felix Felicis banned for use in elections, sport and examinations? It brings automatic good luck for the person who takes it. Therefore, if you're in an election, you're more likely to win, same with sports, and you're more likely to ace examinations because you're 'getting lucky'. It would be kind of like a witch or wizard bringing it into a Muggle casino. They'd win everything. Under what circumstances is it ok to break the rules? What about during a war or when one is in love? I think it's alright to break the rules when the consequences seem like they'd outweigh the dangers/wrongs. I don't think it's alright to cheat in love, and I think JKR shows this quite nicely.

WaggaWaggaWerewo... WaggaWaggaWerewolf View Member Profile	Nov 21 2008, 03:09 PM Post #5
Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,711 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 5, awaiting Deathly Hallow's release.	How many examples of cheating can you find, and who are the culprits? So far, the main cheats have been Harry, Hermione, because of the confundus charm, Romilda Vane and Merope. But they are scarcely the only ones. Draco tried cheating on the task he was given, and Katie Bell and Ron Weasley both got hurt as a result. Ron Weasley cheats a bit as does Hermione. Hermione is nowhere as interested in Cormac McLaggan as Cormac is himself. Whilst Ron was cheating on Lavender when he really preferred Hermione all along. Harry has to take care with Kreacher lest he cheats on what he is supposed to be doing. Snape's performance at Spinner's End is a masterly performance of hiding and explaining away just how much he cheats Voldemort. But then Voldemort is nothing but a big cheat himself. Dumbledore caught him in the act, with other children's possessions whilst he was at the orphanage, and Voldemort has hidden his crimes by getting someone else punished for them. Who did the most cheating in HBP? Voldemort wanted to avoid facing the consequences. He didn't want to get expelled and his virtuous performance of being the model student exposed for the facade it was, so Hagrid had his life messed up instead. Voldemort let his uncle Morfin take the blame for killing his father and paternal grandparents, whilst he let Hokey take the blame for Hepzibah Smith's murder. Voldemort got the information about Horcruxes out of Slughorn by manipulation and deceit, and in the end tried to cheat his own inevitable death by killing others, without provocation. Voldemort was also work-shy. He left Borgin & Burke's once he stole the cup and the locket, and his attending a job interview was merely a cover to hide the Diademcrux in the Room of Requirements. Therefore I'd say that Voldemort is the biggest cheat, and the most unethical. Why is Felix Felicis banned for use in elections, sport and examinations? These are situations in which everyone wants to achieve the same thing. Someone who takes Felix Felicis for this reason has an unfair advantage which could call into question the results of such a competition. Under what circumstances is it ok to break the rules? What about during a war or when one is in love? Sometimes it is necessary to cheat to survive as Snape shows at Spinner's End. Harry was given permission to cheat if necessary, to use any spell that occurred to him in self-defence, against Inferi etc. He was also ordered by Dumbledore to use any means he could to get that memory from Slughorn. Was Harry right to use the Sectumsempra spell against Draco? Cheating in love by feeding someone love potion is definitely not okay. Not only were the consequences tragic as in Merope's case, but ingesting such substances could be dangerous. Does the same thing apply if a witch or wizard uses the confundus or imperius spells to get one's heart's desire? This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Nov 21 2008, 06:08 PM -------------------- Check out Book Number 5 POA edition.

bunya dragon View Member Profile	Nov 21 2008, 08:04 PM Post #6
Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 213 Joined: 3:24am June 3, 2008 Location: Enjoying the latest HP book club	QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Nov 21 2008, 03:09 PM) Was Harry right to use the Sectumsempra spell against Draco? Cheating in love by feeding someone love potion is definitely not okay. Not only were the consequences tragic as in Merope's case, but ingesting such substances could be dangerous. Does the same thing apply if a witch or wizard uses the confundus or imperius spells to get one's heart's desire? Noone seemed to think it was okay for Harry to use the Sectumsempra spell, but was that because he pinched it from the Half-blood prince book or because he retaliated against DRaco? I think Ginny had it right. As for the spells, I dont' think they are any more ethical than the love potions. What about making people jealous by smooching up to someone else? I felt sorry for Lavender in this whole episode.

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