Aslan, By the Lion's Mane! |
 Oct 31 2008, 07:33 PM
Post
#1
|
|
One Half of the DDD  Posts: 8,933 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere   |
Aslan  Aslan protects Shasta during his travels, in fact since Shasta was a baby, but doesn't show himself until the end of the book and metes out punishment when he thinks its deserved, such as clawing at Aravis's shoulder because the servant who had helped her had been whipped for doing it. Why doesn't Aslan make himself know earlier? Does Aravis deserve her punishment? How does this compare with the punishment received by Rabadash? While travelling from Cair Paravel to Aslan's How, Lucy sees Aslan but fails to persuade the others that they should follow him because they don't believe she really saw him. Aslan tells Lucy that its her fault that so much time was lost by taking the detour. Is this fair, or too harsh a judgement? Why doesn't he put some of the blame on the others? We hope you'll enjoy discussing Aslan, please feel free to use these points and questions just as a starting point or bring your own observations and questions. We're looking forward to hearing your thoughts. 
This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Nov 1 2008, 07:25 AM --------------------  March's Book Nook: The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge/Skellig by David Almond "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
 |
 
 
|
 Nov 2 2008, 04:50 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Third Place Winner of The Headless Scavenger Hunt!  Posts: 245 Joined: 1:27pm January 25, 2006 Location: A small village on Mars just outside the capital city Wibble |
QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Nov 1 2008, 12:33 AM)  While travelling from Cair Paravel to Aslan's How, Lucy sees Aslan but fails to persuade the others that they should follow him because they don't believe she really saw him. Aslan tells Lucy that its her fault that so much time was lost by taking the detour. Is this fair, or too harsh a judgement? Why doesn't he put some of the blame on the others? I often wondered why he blames Lucy so much. She tried her best to get the others to follow her and they refused to believe her... for the second time. In The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe they refused to believe her about Narnia and were proved wrong. They should have realised that the last time the disbelieved Lucy they were proved to be fools and so should have trusted her. It's not Lucy's fault but theirs for not having faith in their younger sister...again. -------------------- Blackadder: I've just about had it up to here! One more insult and the contract between us will be as broken as this milk jug!
Baldrick: But that milk jug isn't broken... Blackadder: You really do walk into these things don't you Baldrick? *smashes jug over his head* |
|
|
|
|
Nov 2 2008, 07:34 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Ollivander's Phoenix Feather Plucker  Posts: 4,232 Joined: 9:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In Ammoro, where the hearts are pure, and filled with love |
i think lucy was supposed to learn that she can lead her brothers and sisters, shes not just the youngest, she has a bigger role than that. She also believed in narnia first, and i think her not giong to aslan when she thought she saw him was a sign of her getting older. Before Lucy wasnt afraid of stepping out and believing in it without them, this time she was. Lucy is somewhat more of their leader than peter in the sense that she believes in things, she guides them.
-------------------- of course it is happening inside your head Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"
I am Hans. Proud CoC staff member. I SUPPORT JO ROWLING. No Day But Today.Harry Potter does not bow down to Edward Cullen |
|
|
|
|
Nov 4 2008, 05:05 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Leaky Lounge Over Achiever  Posts: 9,324 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
I do think the rebuke was partly to ensure that Lucy was determined enough to go the second time around and take the others with her. Things would probably have turned out better if Lucy had gone up to start with but it was definitely a difficult demand for Lucy to have met.
As for Shasta and Aravis, I think Aslan wants them to manage things by themselves with the of minimal assistance because it is more character building for them to do so, and helps them to realise what they are capable of. Aravis probably does deserve the punishment she so thoughtlessly handed down to her servant, and it was a good thing for her to remember in future. Rabadash does seem to have brought his fate upon himself, but again Aslan is working to teach him a lesson, and to subdue the warlike Calormenes for a while. --------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
|
|
|
|
Nov 11 2008, 11:02 PM
Post
#5
|
|
Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit Posts: 2,642 Joined: 10:52pm March 5, 2007  |
Why doesn't Aslan make himself know earlier?
That is an interesting thing to consider. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that Calormene culture had demonized lions, and so Aravis, Shasta, Bree, and Hwinn would not have been as receptive to him as someone who either had no preconceived notions, or none at all. It was a good thing, though, since it was fear of lions that spurred them on when they needed it most. Does Aravis deserve her punishment? Yes, and I think she learned from it too. How does this compare with the punishment received by Rabadash? Well, Rabadash brought his punishment upon himself. He made himself ridiculous, and so his punishment was especially fitting. Unlike Aravis, though, he didn't learn from his punishment anything that would help him become a better person. He remained a selfish man through the rest of his life. As far as Lucy goes, I think Aslan expects his leaders to stand for what they truly believe. Lucy knew she had seen Aslan, and she knew what he wanted her to do. At that point, for her, it shouldn't have been a question about what the others wanted to do. Yes, they would have perceived her as selfish and unreasonable, but in the long run she would have been proven right. Many times those who lead are placed in the position to either compromise their beliefs, or honor their personal integrity. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 22 2008, 09:45 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
One Half of the DDD Posts: 8,933 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere |
I did think that it showed Aslan's great capacity for love and forgiveness that he allowed Rabadash to live, albeit in a fairly restricted way. It showed that Aslan isn't interested in revenge or punishment, only showing them where they've gone wrong and allowing them the chance to make amends.
When they reach the Mound Aslan tells Peter, Edmund and Trumpkin "hasten ... and deal with what you will find there" but takes Susan and Lucy to meet the tree spirits, Bacchus and Silenus where they dance and play games. Why doesn't Aslan go into the Mound? What is the reason for taking Susan and Lucy to meet the tree spirits and the crowd of dancers? After Miraz had been defeated Aslan gave the Telmarines the choice to either live in Narnia, under Caspian's rule, or leave for another home provided by Aslan, their "own country" which he knows but they don't. It seems they, and Caspian, had all come from the same land as the Pevensies who also leave by the same doorway but go back to the railway station instead of the Telmarines' island. Was Aslan right to send the Telmarines back to the land of their ancestors? Do you think they would live happily there? Why did Aslan told Peter and Susan that they won't be able to return to Narnia? This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Nov 22 2008, 09:47 AM -------------------- March's Book Nook: The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge/Skellig by David Almond "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
|
|
|
|
Nov 22 2008, 12:47 PM
Post
#7
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man  Posts: 11,484 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
QUOTE Aslan tells Lucy that its her fault that so much time was lost by taking the detour. Is this fair, or too harsh a judgement? Aslan seems to be a fair judge, by that I mean he correctly assesses a person or situation and is just in his decisions. He is not a vengeful character ... he wouldnt be Aslan if he was vengeful. He has demonstrated time and again that he's compassionate and forgiving, merciful and caring. I think he's comparitively harsh on Lucy here for several reasons. Once a King or Queen in Narnia ... but, Lucy isnt behaving like one. She can and should be assertive & take the initiative, she should act like a leader and be strong, but in a way she's kind of behaving like Edmund did in LWW by denying or not wanting to accept she saw Aslan / Narnia. It cant be easy for her to face the disbelief of her older siblings again, but the first time around she accepted Narnia without question, she did everything to convince them of a world they knew nothing about until in the end they yielded to her determination. It's not easy to stand up to your siblings but, they should have known better than to doubt Lucy, who in turn should have shown the eagerness and determination as when she first discovered Narnia. Maybe Aslan is also disappointed by her lessened faith and belief, in him, in Narnia and in herself. --------------------   I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
|
|
|
|
Nov 25 2008, 08:57 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 214 Joined: 3:24am June 3, 2008 Location: Enjoying the latest HP book club |
Why doesn't Aslan make himself know earlier?
Aslan doesn't let on who he is because all four of the travellers have spent a long time in Calormen, don't know what to expect and are frightened of lions. Whilst in their journey the travellers can be hurried on by hearing lions, or presented with what to do about them, it isn't until their choices lead them to the right point that he can make himself known. Does Aravis deserve her punishment? Of course she does. She hasn't treated her maid very well, and needs to be reminded that the maid is entitled to fair treatment, too. At the beginning of their journey Aravis doesn't treat Shasta very well either, though she is nice to the horses. How does this compare with the punishment received by Rabadash? I think Aravis' punishment is short, sharp and to the point. Rabadash gets a much longer punishment to ensure he doesn't do anything else foolish. I don't think Rabadash learned anything more from his punishment. Is this fair, or too harsh a judgement? (Lucy) I think it is a bit unfair. Lucy is still a little girl, and it is hard to stand up to older siblings. But Lucy didn't even try to go the way she was supposed to, regardless of what her siblings wanted. Why doesn't he put some of the blame on the others? Because Lucy didn't try to go her own way. They didn't get the chance to choose properly what they really thought and therefore can't be blamed. I wonder what would have happened if Lucy had left the rest of her party behind? Edmund was inclined to believe her. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 26 2008, 06:04 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man Posts: 11,484 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Oct 31 2008, 10:33 PM) While travelling from Cair Paravel to Aslan's How, Lucy sees Aslan but fails to persuade the others that they should follow him because they don't believe she really saw him. Aslan tells Lucy that its her fault that so much time was lost by taking the detour. So, I have had a change of opinion somewhat since I previously posted about Aslan's judgment of Lucy. I was watching The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe earlier (I know, the movie is not the book) but, Aslan is almost infuriatingly forgiving toward Edmund, & I think this every time I see or read LWW. Edmund betrays his siblings, Alsan and Narnia *for sweeties*, he is refered to as The Traitor by the White Witch and Aslan but, Aslan tells Lucy & Susan not to make a big deal about it, what's done is in the past, there's no need for further discussion of what has passed. This is a huge act of betrayal, and one which could have very nearly jeopardized everything. Is this fair, or too harsh a judgement? Why doesn't he put some of the blame on the others? Although Lucy's behavior could be called betrayal in the sense that she no longer appears to be as loyal & dedicated to Aslan & Narnia as before, and doesnt do everything to convince her older siblings, which could make Aslan feel betrayed, in my opinion her behavior is not in the same league as Edmund's. He deliberately betrayed his family and friends and allies, it was his decision to choose to side with the White Witch. Lucy simply failed to convince her siblings of a truth, so in a way they have as much part in the blame as she does because they've betrayed her (again) by not believing her. -------------------- I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J. When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
|
|
|
|
Nov 29 2008, 03:05 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Professional Diagon Alley Window Shopper Posts: 72 Joined: 10:45am November 9, 2008 |
But in LWW we do not hear what was said in private between Aslan and Edmund.
And in Prince Caspian, after pointing out to Lucy that she could have done more, Aslan again lets the matter go and does not refer to it ever again. I don't know that Aslan would have needed to be very harsh with Edmund, since he had probably already realised the depth of his sin; but I am sure that Edmund would have been feeling worse in the course of that interview than Lucy did when Aslan rebuked her. Lucy's wrong action was neither deliberate nor very far reaching, but without Aslan's pointing it out to her, she might never have considered whether she could have acted differently, or have thought to do so in a similar situation. I think a better comparison is Aslan's punishment for Avaris' exploitation of her maid. That also was not deliberate - as in Avaris was not consciously cruel but just thoughtlessly accepting the moral standards in her culture. She needed it brought home to her, or she might easily have continued to disregard slaves as human beings. And the level of the two rebukes is preportional to the seriousness of the two acts. Now, imagine if Dumbledore had taken action to bring home to Sirius the fact that Kreacher had feelings that he should take account of... |
|
|
|
