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The Biggest Unanswered Question, Come on, I know you have one |
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Mar 29 2008, 12:00 AM
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Leaky's Resident Spoilsport


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So the Harry Potter series has ended, we know that Voldemort dies, Harry and Ginny get together, Ron and Hermione get together, Neville marries Hannah and works at Hogwarts, so there isn't anything else that we need to know...right??? We all know that is wrong...we don't know everything, and we may never know, but what is your biggest question from the HP series?? Please make sure to explain your reasoning.
This post has been edited by Iheartprofessorsnape: Apr 24 2008, 11:37 PM
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 Albus Severus...you were named for two headmasters of Hogwarts. One of them was a Slytherin and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew." Harry Potter
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Mar 29 2008, 12:14 AM
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Neville's Most Ardent Supporter


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QUOTE(Iheartprofessorsnape @ Mar 29 2008, 01:00 AM)  So the Harry Potter series has ended, we know that Voldemort dies, Harry and Ginny get together, Ron and Hermione get together, Neville marries Hannah and works at Hogwards, so there isn't anything else that we need to know...right??? We all know that is wrong...we don't know everything, and we may never know, but what is your biggest question from the HP series?? Please make sure to explain your reasoning. Excellent question ! Goodness Iheartprofessorsnape, I have many questions. I will concentrate on one (very, very difficult to do) but here goes.
It has been brought up in other threads by several posters; but I myself had always wondered how exactly Dumbledore knew that the death of Lily had generated a magical sacrificial protection for Harry. We are told that it is a powerful counter-charm, old magic, from Voldemort himself. And yet, no one had ever survived an AK before.
It appears Dumbledore knows about this sacrificial protection before he placed Harry with the Dursleys; and it is because of this that Dumbledore chose Petunia, as Lily's blood relative, to be Harry's guardian. Lily's death generated protection for Harry from Voldemort himself; Dumbledore sealed this protection by placing a charm over the Dursleys so that Harry would be safe from Voldemort. So, how did both Dumbledore and Voldemort know that Lily generated a magical sacrificial protection?
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Mar 29 2008, 12:41 AM
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Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer

  
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For me, I thought we would find out a lot more about Lily and James' past, because I thought that the way they "thrice defied" LV was going to be very important. I thought this would have explained why LV assumed that the prophecy referred to the Potters rather than the Longbottoms, who were very popular in their day. Neither of these concepts are particularily clear to me.
However, to answer Lirene's question: there's no question that this protection is extremely complex in nature. Even the "requirements" to generate the protection have numerous subtleties to them. This indicates to me that precious few wizards - who have explored the limits of magic to an extent far beyond the norm - even know if its existence. DD and LV certainly fall into this category; I get the impression that no two wizards have ever delved that deeply into magical understanding before.
LV obviously didn't see it coming the first time around, and I think this is because he doesn't understand the subtlties behind the generation of this magic. As we saw in GoF, he is under the impression that it was just Lily's actions that did the trick; he has no idea that it was Lily's loving desperation to save her son that made the magic work. He doesn't know what it means to love someone, whether it's the love between friends or the love between a married couple, and this is evidenced by his views of good and evil: "There is no good and evil. There is only power, and those too weak to seek it". He thinks Lily's protection is just another form of magic; as a power. He doesn't realize that it's really an emotion-induced force.
This begs the question: how can such a blind point of view exist in a human being? Isn't the ability to understand love like this the very thing that sets us humans apart mechanical life forms, or even from the rest of the animal kingdom for that matter?
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"Tell me why, why must we fight? And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?"
-- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance --
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Mar 29 2008, 02:18 AM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer
 
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You have brought up a wonderful question IheartProfessorSnape.
But before I answer your question I would like to try and answer the question in the last post.
Lirene. From what I have read, all I can gather is that they didn't know of it until Harry said something so they could make the connection. Dumbledore is very good at assumptions, but turning assumptions into facts is another matter, which Dumbledore is also very good at. Dumbledore knew the Avada Kedavra curse didn't work, he knew the curse rebounded, and he knew the curse left a scar. Therefore he knew something ELSE was at work that evening. Voldemort never realised that Lily's Love was what kept Harry alive, primarily because Voldemort has never tried to understand Love. He certainly got pieces of the puzzle, but never the entire puzzle. Voldemort only realised what had happened once Harry had told him what happened, but he never saw it for what it truly was.
Love like this is not strictly a human emotion, it is what helps a mother nurture her children in the wild until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Mating is generally for the continuence of the species. It is certainly what sets Flesh & Blood apart from Mechanical objects. Remember, the needs and wants of non-human creatures are not the same as ours, therefore their needs and wants may be something we don't fully understand.
But getting back to the question at hand. There are many questions I would like to see answered. Such as who died at the Battle Of Hogwarts, and where is everyone now and what are they doing.
I suppose the main thing I want so I can close the book is to know what happened to all the secondary characters (Dean, Seamus, Lavender, Parvati, Padma, Cho, Katie, Alicia, Ernie, Justin, Dennis Creevey...)
I tend to assume a lot (which I know I shouldn't) so when it comes to the thrice defied Voldemort. I merely tend to think they did battle with him and escaped.
The only other thing that's really been bugging me is Harry's ancestry, and just who is he related to?
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Dean Scapolo Wellington, New Zealand
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Mar 29 2008, 01:16 PM
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Buying a Half-Kneazle

 
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I think that the Potter's are probably related to the Gryffondors, distantly. We know that at least 3 generations of Potter men have been Gryffondors, and James and Harry are very brave. Also, I don't think it was coincidence that made the Potter's chose Godrics Hollow to hide. They probably knew that they might be related to Godric, and where headed back to their ancestry. It could also be that Ignosious (sp) Peverell's (sp) female descendant married a Gryffondor, making Godric a descendant of the Peverells. Sorry for all the rambling.
My question is: How was Hogwarts built? We know that it was founded by the four founders started it, but how, and when was it built.
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Slytherclaw Forever!
Tokio Hotel Is The Best Band Ever!
The Chronicles of Ancient Darkness are great books! Read them!
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Mar 29 2008, 01:25 PM
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Neville's Most Ardent Supporter


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QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Mar 29 2008, 01:41 AM)  For me, I thought we would find out a lot more about Lily and James' past, because I thought that the way they "thrice defied" LV was going to be very important. I thought this would have explained why LV assumed that the prophecy referred to the Potters rather than the Longbottoms, who were very popular in their day. Neither of these concepts are particularily clear to me. We know that Snape imparted the fact that Voldemort would go after the Potters to Dumbledore. However, I this part of the story is a bit murky. And I also would have like more insight to the events leading not only to the Potter murders, but the activities of the other Order members as well. I believe it might have lended more to the story if we had a more in depth look into how the Longbottoms were targeted. The only time we see the "thrice defied" LV as being important, is it's role in the prophecy.
QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Mar 29 2008, 01:41 AM)  This indicates to me that precious few wizards - who have explored the limits of magic to an extent far beyond the norm - even know if its existence. DD and LV certainly fall into this category; I get the impression that no two wizards have ever delved that deeply into magical understanding before. What you say is true. These were extremely poweful and knowledgeable wizards. How did they know so much; meaning, how is it these two wizards delved so deeply in magic. Because at least to me, one has to want to read or learn about magical sacrificial protection. Could this information be found in "Secrets of the Darkest Arts"? Or is it they knew so much that they could put two and two together? That the "old magic" Voldemort was referring to in the graveyard in GOF meant that he understood "blood" as in related to; the old magic of families?
QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Mar 29 2008, 01:41 AM)  This begs the question: how can such a blind point of view exist in a human being? Isn't the ability to understand love like this the very thing that sets us humans apart mechanical life forms, or even from the rest of the animal kingdom for that matter? I will attempt to answer your question harrypottergeek2. I believe that with the creation of each and every one of Voldemort's Horcruxes, he became less and less of a man; less human. He could no longer have the same feelings as humans do simply because he didn't want those feelings; each time he murdered someone, he tore his soul. It has been argued that every time Voldemort tore his soul he did so in equal parts. I tend to disagree with this. I think it would be impossible to choose which part of your soul you don't want. So, with each and every bit that is torn off, he loses whatever emotional capacity that soul bit had to begin with. This is also the reason why I don't think Voldemort could have repented. Even if he wanted to, I believe he did not have that part of his soul anymore; the will to repent was torn away from him. Does anyone believe that Voldemort truly had the capacity to repent? Because even Hermione has doubts in DH: QUOTE "You've got to really feel what you've done… Apparently the pain of it can destroy you. I can't see Voldemort attempting it somehow, can you?"
Voldemort's physical transformation is startling; he becomes very snakelike. His outward appearance made no mistake that he was a Slytherin; a snake; the true heir of Salazar became the animal symbolic of the House of Salazar Slytherin. If one thinks about it, snakes have a rudimentary central nervous system; and I think that is what became of Voldemort as well; the soul bit left in him was a gruesome, rudimentary infant-like creature.
Here's another question (am I allowed more than one??). In the forest, when Voldemort hits Harry with the AK, both fall unconscious. Does anyone think that Voldemort got a glimpse of what his soul eventually became? Was he able to see his mutilated soul and comprehend what it was? Or was he too blind by his own power to even notice?
QUOTE(DeanNZ @ Mar 29 2008, 03:18 AM)  Lirene. From what I have read, all I can gather is that they didn't know of it until Harry said something so they could make the connection. Dumbledore is very good at assumptions, but turning assumptions into facts is another matter, which Dumbledore is also very good at. Dumbledore knew the Avada Kedavra curse didn't work, he knew the curse rebounded, and he knew the curse left a scar. Therefore he knew something ELSE was at work that evening. Voldemort never realised that Lily's Love was what kept Harry alive, primarily because Voldemort has never tried to understand Love. He certainly got pieces of the puzzle, but never the entire puzzle. Voldemort only realised what had happened once Harry had told him what happened, but he never saw it for what it truly was. I remember Dumbledore's conversation with Harry in OOTP. Dumbledore seems to know very early on, that a sacrifical magical protection was generated. It's because of this knowledge that he sealed Lily's protection with a charm of his own. As for Voldemort, he didn't get any information from Harry either. Voldemort knew of the sacrificial magical protection, and it's because of his knowledge of this that he used Harry's own blood to resurrect himself; he wanted Harry's blood and the protection it imparted. I agree that Voldemort doesn't understand love, but he is intelligent enough to know that Lily's actions somehow gave Harry protection. He never mentioned love, he said "your mother died to protect you"; and that the old magic that was invoked was unforseen; but he understood what happened. (quote from memory).
This post has been edited by lirene: Mar 29 2008, 01:42 PM
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Mar 29 2008, 03:29 PM
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Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer

  
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QUOTE(lirene @ Mar 29 2008, 02:25 PM)  How did they know so much; meaning, how is it these two wizards delved so deeply in magic. Because at least to me, one has to want to read or learn about magical sacrificial protection. Could this information be found in "Secrets of the Darkest Arts"? Or is it they knew so much that they could put two and two together? That the "old magic" Voldemort was referring to in the graveyard in GOF meant that he understood "blood" as in related to; the old magic of families?
I think you're on the right track with the part I bolded. Jo once said in an interview that she thinks DD was somewhat self-taught (which makes sense, because he invents new magic). He is able to take the foundations of magic that have already been established and expands on them (like with the Patronus messages - the Patronus already existed, but he expanded the ways in which it can be used). LV was the same way - he took the concept of a Horcrux and expanded on that. These are just a couple of instances, of course, but it just goes to show that both DD and LV are creative when it comes to magic. They see and understand the fundamentals of magic so well that they have the capacity to do more with it.
QUOTE(lirene @ Mar 29 2008, 02:25 PM)  I will attempt to answer your question harrypottergeek2. I believe that with the creation of each and every one of Voldemort's Horcruxes, he became less and less of a man; less human. He could no longer have the same feelings as humans do simply because he didn't want those feelings; each time he murdered someone, he tore his soul. It has been argued that every time Voldemort tore his soul he did so in equal parts. I tend to disagree with this. I think it would be impossible to choose which part of your soul you don't want. So, with each and every bit that is torn off, he loses whatever emotional capacity that soul bit had to begin with. This is also the reason why I don't think Voldemort could have repented. Even if he wanted to, I believe he did not have that part of his soul anymore; the will to repent was torn away from him. Does anyone believe that Voldemort truly had the capacity to repent? Because even Hermione has doubts in DH: QUOTE "You've got to really feel what you've done… Apparently the pain of it can destroy you. I can't see Voldemort attempting it somehow, can you?"
I really like this explanation. It falls in line with what I said in the Sorting Hat poll thread about the Hat looking into your soul to determine what you really are.
QUOTE(lirene @ Mar 29 2008, 02:25 PM)  Here's another question (am I allowed more than one??). In the forest, when Voldemort hits Harry with the AK, both fall unconscious. Does anyone think that Voldemort got a glimpse of what his soul eventually became? Was he able to see his mutilated soul and comprehend what it was? Or was he too blind by his own power to even notice?
I think not, because LV's soul was too weak to allow himself to be connected to it that strongly. Even if LV did see that part of himself, the thing itself was so weak it woudn't be aware of its surroundings.
QUOTE(DeanNZ @ Mar 29 2008, 03:18 AM)  Love like this is not strictly a human emotion, it is what helps a mother nurture her children in the wild until they are old enough to fend for themselves. Mating is generally for the continuence of the species. It is certainly what sets Flesh & Blood apart from Mechanical objects. Remember, the needs and wants of non-human creatures are not the same as ours, therefore their needs and wants may be something we don't fully understand.
My apologies. My original explanation was a bit misleading. No, LV didn't understand Lily's love for her child, but he didn't understand Harry's love for the WW either, or Snap's love for Lily. It is love in its many forms that I was referring to, and that LV does not understand.
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"Tell me why, why must we fight? And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?"
-- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance --
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Mar 29 2008, 05:05 PM
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie

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QUOTE(Iheartprofessorsnape @ Mar 29 2008, 12:00 AM)  So the Harry Potter series has ended, we know that Voldemort dies, Harry and Ginny get together, Ron and Hermione get together, Neville marries Hannah and works at Hogwards, so there isn't anything else that we need to know...right??? We all know that is wrong...we don't know everything, and we may never know, but what is your biggest question from the HP series?? Please make sure to explain your reasoning.
Well, we all know that LV wanted to split his soul into seven pieces. As far as most are concerned he did this. 6 material Horcruxes and the final being the soul left in his body. Of course he didn't know that Harry was a horcrux. What if there had been a 7th material horcrux he made? What if he didn't consider the soul in his body to be the 7th? There could have been 7 material Horcruxes, not counting the accidental Harry Horcrux and the soul left in his body. If there was one left that no one knew of or ever found he could still be out there somewhere. Perhaps, 19 years later he is still in a weakened state somewhere trying to regain his strength. Maybe, the next generation of Hogwart's students and a new order will still have to deal with Voldemort. It is possible that he could be somewhere trying to recruit one that will bring him back to power. MorseMordre!
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Mar 29 2008, 09:47 PM
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Rat Tonic Bottler
  
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QUOTE(darksoul707 @ Mar 29 2008, 05:05 PM)  QUOTE(Iheartprofessorsnape @ Mar 29 2008, 12:00 AM)  So the Harry Potter series has ended, we know that Voldemort dies, Harry and Ginny get together, Ron and Hermione get together, Neville marries Hannah and works at Hogwards, so there isn't anything else that we need to know...right??? We all know that is wrong...we don't know everything, and we may never know, but what is your biggest question from the HP series?? Please make sure to explain your reasoning. Well, we all know that LV wanted to split his soul into seven pieces. As far as most are concerned he did this. 6 material Horcruxes and the final being the soul left in his body. Of course he didn't know that Harry was a horcrux. What if there had been a 7th material horcrux he made? What if he didn't consider the soul in his body to be the 7th? There could have been 7 material Horcruxes, not counting the accidental Harry Horcrux and the soul left in his body. If there was one left that no one knew of or ever found he could still be out there somewhere. Perhaps, 19 years later he is still in a weakened state somewhere trying to regain his strength. Maybe, the next generation of Hogwart's students and a new order will still have to deal with Voldemort. It is possible that he could be somewhere trying to recruit one that will bring him back to power.  MorseMordre!  Actually, we know that he only made six horcruxes intentionally. Harry was in his head as he ran through the locations of all of his horcruxes. Harry would have known then if he had made more.
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"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -Albus Dumbledore
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