The official webforum of the The-Leaky-Cauldron.org LeakyNews.com: Leaky Info | Potter News | Features | Interactive | Galleries | The Books | The Films | For Fun

Leaky Lounge

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )
The Rules : FAQ : Search : Member List : Sitemap

Forum News: All you ever wanted to know about Jo's Book Nook
Hot Thread: PoA Animal Poll in the HP Book Club.
Mod Thread: David Tennant - Actor of the Month Discussion

Leaky Lounge > HP-Related Discussion: Diagon Alley > HP Book Discussion: Flourish and Blotts > Academic Analysis: Obscurus Books

 
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
Christian Symbolism in the Harry Potter Series, Part VI
Shard
post Oct 16 2007, 11:16 AM
Post #1
Stargazing on the Astronomy Tower


Group Icon

Posts: 3,908
Joined: 8:04pm September 28, 2005
Location: Astronomy Tower
Continue the Christain Symbolism discussion here. Here is a link to Part V.


--------------------



"We need metaphors of magic and monsters in order to understand the human condition."-Stephen Donaldson

"One of the greatest talents in the world is to never say two words when one will do."
Go to the top of the page
Profile CardPMEmail Poster
+Quote Post
 
 Start new topic
Replies
wordsaremagic
post Oct 16 2007, 03:43 PM
Post #2
Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense


Group Icon

Posts: 2,513
Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006
Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade
QUOTE
Ariahnrod:
QUOTE
QUOTE
Also the AK kills instantly, the horcrux in Harry would be dead before he was ever aware of King's Cross.
It kills the body instantly. To say that it can destroy a soul instantly is speculation. Even when the body is clinically dead (no heartrate or blood pressure), brain activity continues for several minutes.
It would seem unlikely that AK does destroy the soul at all, unless we can assign a specific definition to the term soul. Something resembling Lily appeared to Harry when he evoked the power of the stone. I do not believe that Dumbledore had put some special curse on the stone to cause it to cast this particular illusion just to encourage Harry to go through with the plan. That is, Lily was killed by AK but her soul seems to be still existing.

Of course it is possible to define things differently. Many people believe the soul is mortal and can be destroyed. They generally see the human creature as having three parts: Body, Soul, and Spirit. Others distuingish only body and soul. The former group sees the spirit as immortal, but not necessarily the soul. From that perspective, we could possibly be seeing something like Lily's spirit, her soul having ceased when her body died (with the soul being the result of a spirit existing in flesh). For those who see two parts to the human creature, that would have been her soul Harry saw.

I see no reason to believe that Harry was hallucinating at this point, since the Snitch seems to be doing what it was intended to do--opening at the end so that Harry can use the power of the stone (before conveniently losing it in the forest). Something that was Lily, call it spirit or soul, was beyond the power of AK to destroy.

I think your point about the action of the AK on the body is interesting. It kills the body, but apparently leaves it physically unharmed; Harry was able to get up, brush off the leaves and dirt, and move on. So, how does that work? Is it a spell that simply separates body and soul (or body and spirit) without actually damaging either?


--------------------

click the Q

"And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis
Go to the top of the page
Profile CardPM
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Shard   Christian Symbolism in the Harry Potter Series   Oct 16 2007, 11:16 AM
- - ravenclaw wannabe   davidenglish says QUOTEWell, King's Cross has ...   Oct 16 2007, 12:27 PM
- - Smullyan_for_DD   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 16 2007, 12:10 P...   Oct 16 2007, 02:10 PM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(Smullyan_for_DD @ Oct 16 2007, 03:1...   Oct 16 2007, 03:08 PM
- - davidenglish   I'm not sure what Smully is referring to. And ...   Oct 16 2007, 03:44 PM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 16 2007, 04:44 P...   Oct 17 2007, 12:10 AM
- - Smullyan_for_DD   QUOTE(ravenclaw wannabe @ Oct 16 2007, 04...   Oct 16 2007, 03:52 PM
- - momwitch   Part of the significance of Boudicca was that she ...   Oct 16 2007, 05:08 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(momwitch @ Oct 16 2007, 10:08 PM) A...   Oct 16 2007, 06:51 PM
- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 16 2007, 04:43 ...   Oct 16 2007, 07:22 PM
|- - wordsaremagic   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Oct 16 2007, 05:22 PM) ...   Oct 17 2007, 12:27 AM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 17 2007, 01:27 ...   Oct 17 2007, 07:42 AM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 17 2007, 01:27 ...   Oct 17 2007, 01:32 AM
- - momwitch   Though it has been a long time since I attended sc...   Oct 17 2007, 05:14 AM
- - Arianhrod   QUOTEWell, yes, but that doesn't mean that the...   Oct 17 2007, 05:29 AM
- - jacobmarley   I have to agree with Momwitch on the King's Cr...   Oct 17 2007, 07:23 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(jacobmarley @ Oct 17 2007, 01:23 PM...   Oct 17 2007, 08:27 AM
|- - jacobmarley   QUOTE(roonwit @ Oct 17 2007, 01:27 PM) QU...   Oct 18 2007, 06:02 AM
- - davidenglish   Well, again, Harry describes the loved ones recall...   Oct 17 2007, 07:34 AM
- - momwitch   Bill and Fleur's daughter Victoire is a prince...   Oct 17 2007, 07:53 AM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(momwitch @ Oct 17 2007, 08:53 AM) B...   Oct 17 2007, 12:26 PM
- - wordsaremagic   I hardly qualify as an expert--just an undergradua...   Oct 17 2007, 08:16 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 17 2007, 09:16 ...   Oct 17 2007, 08:40 AM
- - Henrietta   Surely there's also the quite simple concept o...   Oct 17 2007, 08:17 AM
|- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(Henrietta @ Oct 17 2007, 08:17 AM) ...   Oct 17 2007, 08:22 AM
- - roonwit   Those of you who haven't yet seen it check out...   Oct 17 2007, 11:19 AM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(roonwit @ Oct 17 2007, 08:19 AM) Th...   Oct 17 2007, 11:33 AM
- - luna'sceiling   Ironically, we didn't really deal with the quo...   Oct 17 2007, 12:36 PM
- - davidenglish   Well, I'd like the MTV article better if Shawn...   Oct 17 2007, 02:02 PM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 17 2007, 03:02 P...   Oct 17 2007, 03:21 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(ravenclaw wannabe @ Oct 17 2007, 09...   Oct 17 2007, 03:40 PM
- - momwitch   QUOTEmomwitch As nice as I think that would be hav...   Oct 17 2007, 02:09 PM
- - davidenglish   QUOTEHe once quoted a line of Browning as a suitab...   Oct 17 2007, 03:50 PM
- - Inner eye   I agree wholeheartedly with your interpretation of...   Oct 17 2007, 04:46 PM
- - davidenglish   Yes, there's nothing there that we haven't...   Oct 17 2007, 05:28 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 17 2007, 11:28 P...   Oct 17 2007, 05:37 PM
||- - davidenglish   QUOTE(roonwit @ Oct 17 2007, 10:37 PM) We...   Oct 17 2007, 05:55 PM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 17 2007, 06:28 P...   Oct 17 2007, 06:12 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(ravenclaw wannabe @ Oct 17 2007, 11...   Oct 17 2007, 06:24 PM
|- - wordsaremagic   QUOTE(ravenclaw wannabe @ Oct 17 2007, 04...   Oct 17 2007, 07:24 PM
|- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 17 2007, 08:24 ...   Oct 17 2007, 07:49 PM
|- - wordsaremagic   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Oct 17 2007, 05:49 PM) ...   Oct 17 2007, 08:14 PM
|- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 17 2007, 09:14 ...   Oct 17 2007, 08:42 PM
- - momwitch   I think if JKR "came out" as a Christian...   Oct 17 2007, 05:34 PM
- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(Inner eye @ Oct 17 2007, 05:46 PM) ...   Oct 17 2007, 06:12 PM
- - Maime the Hunter   QUOTEthink if JKR "came out" as a Christ...   Oct 17 2007, 06:21 PM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(Maime the Hunter @ Oct 17 2007, 11...   Oct 17 2007, 09:28 PM
- - davidenglish   wordsaremagic, I did not attack Americans. I point...   Oct 17 2007, 08:51 PM
|- - wordsaremagic   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 17 2007, 06:51 P...   Oct 17 2007, 10:09 PM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Oct 17 2007, 11:09 ...   Oct 18 2007, 08:18 AM
|- - davidenglish   It is always a pleasure to read you, ravenclaw wan...   Oct 18 2007, 09:31 AM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 18 2007, 10:31 A...   Oct 18 2007, 10:14 AM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 18 2007, 06:31 A...   Oct 18 2007, 10:25 AM
- - luna'sceiling   I think it is fair to say that we all would like t...   Oct 17 2007, 08:54 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 18 2007, 01...   Oct 17 2007, 10:47 PM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 17 2007, 11:47 P...   Oct 18 2007, 02:11 AM
- - momwitch   The Oracle of Delphi told Socrates that he was the...   Oct 18 2007, 05:44 AM
- - davidenglish   luna'sceiling, I don't know if JKR just fo...   Oct 18 2007, 06:58 AM
|- - wordsaremagic   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 18 2007, 04:58 A...   Oct 18 2007, 07:34 AM
- - ravenclaw wannabe   A nice post, Henrietta, and very thoughtful. My p...   Oct 18 2007, 11:19 AM
- - momwitch   Henrietta: QUOTEThe religious right in America is ...   Oct 18 2007, 01:07 PM
- - luna'sceiling   I suspect that Jo left it out. This quote was tak...   Oct 18 2007, 01:34 PM
- - rotfang07   RE Jacobmarley KING'S CROSS King's Cross S...   Oct 18 2007, 01:47 PM
|- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(rotfang07 @ Oct 18 2007, 02:47 PM) ...   Oct 18 2007, 05:15 PM
- - Maime the Hunter   I don't think we can look on Christainity as i...   Oct 18 2007, 02:31 PM
- - blue4t   I thought the reason Rowling wouldn't discuss ...   Oct 18 2007, 03:27 PM
|- - Maime the Hunter   QUOTE(blue4t @ Oct 18 2007, 02:27 PM) I t...   Oct 18 2007, 08:02 PM
|- - blue4t   QUOTE(Maime the Hunter @ Oct 18 2007, 09...   Oct 18 2007, 10:52 PM
|- - Maime the Hunter   QUOTE(blue4t @ Oct 18 2007, 09:52 PM) Tha...   Oct 19 2007, 11:35 AM
|- - davidenglish   St Pancras is a train station. It really doesn...   Oct 19 2007, 02:04 PM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 19 2007, 03:04 P...   Oct 19 2007, 06:16 PM
- - davidenglish   She's the Queen of diversity. QUOTEPerhaps eve...   Oct 18 2007, 03:41 PM
- - rotfang07   I did not know St Martin and St Mary were patron s...   Oct 18 2007, 07:55 PM
|- - davidenglish   Don't you mean St Mary Martin? QUOTE(rotfang...   Oct 18 2007, 08:43 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 18 2007, 05:43 P...   Oct 19 2007, 08:45 AM
- - rotfang07   My reasoning was more that Rowling, when she lived...   Oct 18 2007, 09:29 PM
- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(rotfang07 @ Oct 18 2007, 09:29 PM) ...   Oct 19 2007, 09:48 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Oct 19 2007, 10:48 AM) ...   Oct 19 2007, 11:03 AM
|- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 19 2007, 12...   Oct 19 2007, 11:08 AM
|- - ravenclaw wannabe   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Oct 19 2007, 12:08 PM) ...   Oct 19 2007, 01:31 PM
- - momwitch   Where I have lived, the most popular churches actu...   Oct 19 2007, 10:10 AM
- - momwitch   I could be wrong, but I think the "P" wo...   Oct 19 2007, 01:58 PM
- - Maime the Hunter   If I chose to see Kreacher's existance as only...   Oct 19 2007, 03:02 PM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Oct 19 2007, 03:04 P...   Oct 19 2007, 08:06 PM
- - chloe squibbulus   On the subject of Rowling’s equivocality with her ...   Oct 19 2007, 10:39 PM
- - luna'sceiling   chloe There is nothing inconsistent with a Christi...   Oct 20 2007, 01:01 AM
|- - fiasco   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 20 2007, 02...   Oct 20 2007, 02:01 AM
|- - jacobmarley   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 20 2007, 06...   Oct 20 2007, 06:37 AM
|- - chloe squibbulus   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 20 2007, 02...   Oct 20 2007, 07:58 PM
|- - EatingPie   Phew! Finally (mostly!) up-to-date. Gr...   Oct 21 2007, 12:44 AM
|- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(chloe squibbulus @ Oct 20 2007, 08...   Oct 21 2007, 03:07 AM
|- - jacobmarley   QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Oct 21 2007, 08...   Oct 21 2007, 08:20 AM
|- - fiasco   QUOTE(jacobmarley @ Oct 21 2007, 09:20 AM...   Oct 21 2007, 09:23 AM
- - momwitch   I agree and think that is a great revelation. I a...   Oct 20 2007, 08:27 AM
- - luna'sceiling   QUOTE(jacobmarley @ Oct 20 2007, 07:37 AM...   Oct 20 2007, 10:49 AM
- - Maime the Hunter   QUOTEI agree and think that is a great revelation ...   Oct 20 2007, 11:08 AM
- - EatingPie   Well I'm back! Want to respond to week-ol...   Oct 20 2007, 05:52 PM
|- - theredwitch   QUOTE(EatingPie @ Oct 20 2007, 10:52 PM) ...   Oct 21 2007, 07:48 AM
- - momwitch   QUOTELilith is a legendary figure, and does not ap...   Oct 21 2007, 10:25 AM
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >

 

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Powered By IP.Board 2.3.6 © 2010  IPS, Inc.
CommunitySEO 1.1.4 P1 © 2010  IPB SEO Module
Sorting is open now for Deathly Hallows! Follow this link.
Coming Up:
The Corner Booth is on Hiatus Join us in the New Year!
Come right in to the Shrieking Shack Arcade!
Shopping at the Cauldron Shop supports this forum!
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here