Conflicting unbreakable vows |
 Dec 27 2005, 09:16 AM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher  Posts: 167 Joined: 12:40pm December 10, 2005 Location: Getting sick of muggles, trying to seduce a wizard (er..Prof. Snape?What are you doing on friday?)  |
While reading other threads the following idea came to me : what if Snape had made two (or more) unbreakable vows and that they are contradictory?For example some people think that he made one to protect Harry in the past (and that would be for Dumbledore a reason to trust him) but he might as well have made one which is in opposition to the one he made with Narcissa (like not kill Dumbledore and then have to kill him), what would happen in this case?Which one would prevail?Will the second vow be unefficient?
I think that's what hapenned, Snape can't fulfil the second vow because he has already made one before, and it comes in opposition with this second one.Moreover, I'm sure he made the first vow with Dumbledore and, because the two vows are related, DD knows about the second vow Snape has made. ... I've found another argument of the "Snape didn't kill DD theory"...  What do you think? I edited my post to add this : at the end of chapter 2 "Spinner End", Snape says "I will" to conclude the unbreakable vow and the next chapter is called "Will and won't"...for me it's a clue that he says he will but in reality he won't fulfil the vow. anyone else thinks so? --------------------  Snape : I'm not the most attractive man for hellomagazine? they'll see, I'll have my revenge... Look, Idril what I can do!!   Idril : woops I won't tell him that I voted for Johnny Depp (let's learn occlumency quickly!) |
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Dec 27 2005, 09:21 AM
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic  Posts: 9,274 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK  |
If you take two conflicting vows, I suspect you still have to keep both of them, so unless you can somehow manage to avoid the contradiction and actually keep both of them, you die.
--------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Dec 27 2005, 11:09 AM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 11 Joined: 11:24am July 21, 2005 |
I think I have to agree with roonwit
but if snape did make a vow to protect harry he can still make a vow to kill DD and still live, now with that said if snape did make a vow with DD to protect Harry but now that DD is dead would snape still need to keep his vow? |
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Dec 27 2005, 11:38 AM
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Getting caught by Doris' Hedgeclippers!  Posts: 1,973 Joined: 12:01pm November 29, 2005 Location: In Azkaban....waiting for my Masters return  |
I think that if 2 vows are made that contradict, and there is no way around the contradiction (eg swearing to Kill DD, and swearing your Loyalty to DD) then you would die instantly as you made the second vow.
So yes pretty much agreeing with roonwit.. -------------------- I READ BANNED BOOKS |
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Dec 27 2005, 11:59 AM
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic Posts: 9,274 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(Jrg1990 @ Dec. 27 2005,4:38 pm) I think that if 2 vows are made that contradict, and there is no way around the contradiction (eg swearing to Kill DD, and swearing your Loyalty to DD) then you would die instantly as you made the second vow. I don't think you would die instantly unless you broke the first vow by act of taking the second, but you would die as soon as you broke one or other vow. However, in your example if you sweared loyalty to DD first, you would die if you swore to someone else to kill Dumbledore, unless that vow was consistent with orders Dumbledore had already given.
-------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Dec 27 2005, 02:17 PM
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Shopping the sales rack at Madam Malkins Posts: 2,516 Joined: 2:33pm September 16, 2005 Location: I'm somewhere inside all of you |
I believe that the band wouldn't wrap around your wrists if you tried to take a second UV that contradicted with a previous one. Certainly since the magic that knows if you break a UV, it would also know that you're already bound by a prior one that prevents the current (attempted) UV from being fulfilled.
-------------------- "Harry now saw red hair flying like flames in front of him: Ginny was locked in combat ..."
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Dec 27 2005, 10:47 PM
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Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 505 Joined: 10:49am December 5, 2005 Location: browsing at Weasley's Wizard Wheezes |
I think that you would die if you tried to make an unbreakable vow contradicting a previous one. If you break an unbreakable vow you die, so by making a second contradictory unbreakable vow you are essentially breaking the first...if that makes sense?? :conf:
-------------------- 7.21.07
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Dec 28 2005, 02:49 AM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 11 Joined: 11:24am July 21, 2005 |
But what if you made a vow to protect someone and then made a vow to kill the persone you made the vow too would it still hold afterwords or would the vow no longer excist?
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Dec 28 2005, 06:36 AM
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#9
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 167 Joined: 12:40pm December 10, 2005 Location: Getting sick of muggles, trying to seduce a wizard (er..Prof. Snape?What are you doing on friday?) |
QUOTE(the_boy_who_lived @ Dec. 27 2005,8:17 pm) I believe that the band wouldn't wrap around your wrists if you tried to take a second UV that contradicted with a previous one. Certainly since the magic that knows if you break a UV, it would also know that you're already bound by a prior one that prevents the current (attempted) UV from being fulfilled. I think your idea is more likely to be true... But I still think that it wasn't snape's first unbreakable vow 
-------------------- Snape : I'm not the most attractive man for hellomagazine?they'll see, I'll have my revenge... Look, Idril what I can do!! Idril : woops I won't tell him that I voted for Johnny Depp (let's learn occlumency quickly!) |
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Dec 28 2005, 07:13 AM
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Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 14 Joined: 12:06pm October 31, 2005 Location: Germany -> Berlin -> Lichtenberg -> some tiny flat -> in the middle of the mess |
I agree with the idea that the charm wouldn't work if the second vow is a cotraticting one. What means there woudn't be that band of fire.
Would be reasonable I think, as you might come in a situation were you can't see at first glance, that the new vow would contradict your first vow. Or you have lost your memory or are just drunk and unable to think about consequences.  Another question that would interest me is, if Snape made a vow to DD who was the binder, the one who is supposed to hold the wand. An unhappy houself whose memory was wiped afterwards? (Thoug houselfs aren't permitted to use wands of cause. :wink: ) But if I come to think of it, it could have been Trewlouny (I have surely misspelled it - I mean the divination teacher). That woud be a further reason for DD to insist on her remaining at Hogwards, as memory charms can be broken. LV demonstrated this by breaking crouch's spell on that ministry wich in book 4. Can't remember her name. Well, I hope the second paragraph wasn't too off topic. Greetings, Andara -------------------- Please pardon any linguistic glitches in my posts, English isn't my native tongue.
But you are more than welcome to correct me! In fact, I ask you to do it! :) |
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