Corner Booth Www Chat 11-8-06, The Enigmatic Severus Snape |
 Nov 8 2006, 09:22 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter  Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner   |
Tonight's Chat Moderators: Aislinn, fawkes28, SoonerGryffindor, Expelliarmas, poet and futureweasley
[18:58] *** Snuffles changed the topic to: The Enigmatic Severus Snape (Aislinn) [18:58] <Expelliarmas> hey there [18:59] *** Poet has joined #lounge [18:59] <Aislinn> Hey smile [18:59] <Aislinn> Crap, huge lag [18:59] *** stewiegryf has joined #lounge [18:59] <Expelliarmas> already? [18:59] <Aislinn> hi harryfreak [18:59] <Aislinn> hey stewie [18:59] <Expelliarmas> hey hf [18:59] <Aislinn> it's getting better [18:59] <Expelliarmas> heya stewie [18:59] <Poet> Hi stewiegryf [18:59] <harryfreak359> hey! [18:59] <stewiegryf> hey all! [19:00] <Poet> hi harryfreak359 [19:00] <stewiegryf> how's everyone doing tonight? [19:00] <harryfreak359> hello! [19:00] <Expelliarmas> doing pretty well [19:00] <Poet> headache, earache, and sort throat smile [19:00] *** stupifiant_horcri has joined #lounge [19:00] *** nijolijo has joined #lounge [19:00] <harryfreak359> well, except for a headache [19:00] <Expelliarmas> sounds like its winter for you Poet [19:00] *** fawkes28 has joined #lounge [19:00] <Aislinn> ooh, not good Poet [19:00] <Poet> I couldn't miss a chat about Snape though [19:01] <stewiegryf> oh no! but you're still here! what a trooper... [19:01] *** stupifiant_horcri has quit [Bye] [19:01] <harryfreak359> This is going to be a great hat [19:01] <harryfreak359> chat not hat [19:01] <fawkes28> woo hoo for snape!! [19:01] * Expelliarmas stays oddly quiet for the moment [19:01] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [19:01] *** AlchemistApprentice has joined #lounge [19:01] <Poet> woo hoo indeed [19:01] <fawkes28> hehe [19:02] <Aislinn> hi everyone smile [19:02] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [19:02] <DumbleDebbie> hey kids! smile [19:02] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [19:02] <fawkes28> hello smile [19:02] * stewiegryf is ready to see some knockdown, dragout debates [19:02] <nympheart> hello [19:02] <AlchemistApprentice> got room for one more? [19:02] <fawkes28> stewie, whatever are you talking about?? [19:02] <Expelliarmas> budge up everyone [19:02] <Aislinn> sure smile [19:02] <fawkes28> hi AL [19:02] <Poet> Maybe if we all sit on our hands it will be a pleasant little chat [19:02] <nympheart> what are the odds of this debate going for about a month straight? [19:02] <AlchemistApprentice> hello all hubby away- so I get to play !!! [19:03] <stewiegryf> Oh I don't know...just for some reason I think that Snape is a hotly debated issue. [19:03] <Aislinn> glad you joined us AL [19:03] <fawkes28> hehe [19:03] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:03] *** An_Eternal_Night has joined #lounge [19:03] <nympheart> hi AEN [19:03] *** Hedwigger7 has joined #lounge [19:03] <AlchemistApprentice> thanks Aislinn and debates good but no biting aloud! [19:03] <fawkes28> hello everyone smile [19:03] <An_Eternal_Night> hi nympheart [19:03] <An_Eternal_Night> hi all! [19:03] <Aislinn> lol [19:04] <Hedwigger7> Howdy Snape o philes! [19:04] <Hedwigger7> (are there any here?! she asks panicked) [19:04] *** Punky has quit [Bye] [19:04] <nympheart> lol [19:04] <fawkes28> i am so excited [19:04] <Poet> Here, yes. [19:04] <Aislinn> hehehehe [19:04] *** Whisperwing has joined #lounge [19:04] *** Belenzie has joined #lounge [19:05] * Expelliarmas points hedwigger to the other side of the room [19:05] <Hedwigger7> (whew) [19:05] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [19:05] <An_Eternal_Night> this should be very.... interesting... [19:05] <AlchemistApprentice> is there any rules to what we can discuss about Snape or not discuss?? [19:05] <Belenzie> finally it worked [19:05] <DumbleDebbie> future! smile [19:05] <Aislinn> yay - hi Future [19:05] <Poet> Just wondering where Jo is so we can hear her opinion smile [19:05] <Hedwigger7> Expel, I'm so sad... : ( How could u? [19:05] <Expelliarmas> heya fw [19:05] <An_Eternal_Night> hi future [19:05] <nympheart> hi fw [19:05] *** futureweasley has quit [Connection reset by peer] [19:05] <Aislinn> Expie, over here with me please smile [19:05] <Belenzie> hey all [19:05] <Poet> There are mods - so there will be specific questions to answer that they pose to us, yeah. [19:05] * Expelliarmas marvels and wonders why anyone would invite her to this chat?!? [19:05] <Hedwigger7> Both of you. [19:05] *** nijolijo has quit [Bye] [19:05] <Whisperwing> Maybe for a balanced viewpoint? [19:05] <fawkes28> expie, play nicely smile [19:06] * Expelliarmas puts away the legal brain and picks up the relaxed brain [19:06] * nympheart polishes her ax [19:06] <Hedwigger7> !!! [19:06] <Whisperwing> Now now, no violence. [19:06] *** bemused has joined #lounge [19:06] <Aislinn> no weapons allowed nymph [19:06] <nympheart> awww [19:06] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:06] <Aislinn> biggrin [19:06] *** nijolijo has joined #lounge [19:07] <nympheart> but it's shiny now [19:07] *** nijolijo has quit [Bye] [19:07] <stewiegryf> wait until after the chat for that [19:07] <stewiegryf> smile [19:07] <fawkes28> i'll promise to behave [19:07] <fawkes28> hehe [19:07] * Expelliarmas thinks nympheart should offer the shiny ax to Macnair [19:07] * nympheart thinks he already has one or two [19:07] *** Punky has quit [Bye] [19:07] *** atschpe has joined #lounge [19:07] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [19:08] <Whisperwing> Oh, I'm sure he likes his own just fine. [19:08] <Aislinn> hi atschpe! [19:08] <harryfreak359> ack finally! [19:08] <nympheart> hi atschpe and hf [19:08] <Poet> Where are all the weapons coming from? [19:08] <fawkes28> hey atschpe smile [19:08] *** nijolijo has joined #lounge [19:08] <Aislinn> wb hf [19:08] <Expelliarmas> heya atschpe [19:08] <atschpe> Hi there! [19:08] <stewiegryf> Snape is giving them out poet....he's just mean like that. [19:08] * Whisperwing is weaponless, save for wit. [19:08] <harryfreak359> snuffles is not happy with me tonight, apparently [19:08] <nijolijo> hi? [19:08] <nijolijo> ok its working lol [19:08] <Expelliarmas> "wit beyond measure ... [19:08] <Whisperwing> Hullo nijolijo [19:08] <nympheart> maybe he's just hungry [19:08] <nijolijo> hello [19:08] <harryfreak359> hi nijolijo [19:09] <nympheart> hi nijolijo [19:09] * Belenzie does a little dance [19:09] <fawkes28> devil2 [19:09] <Belenzie> sevy today yay!!!! [19:09] <Belenzie> :) [19:09] <nijolijo> it wouldnt let me chat [19:09] <Whisperwing> Goodness, don't mention hunger, or I'll be wandering away in search of food... [19:09] <nympheart> it gave me a hard time too [19:09] <nijolijo> ok [19:09] <AlchemistApprentice> ooh who said food?!!! [19:09] <harryfreak359> me either nijolijo [19:09] *** SoonerGryffindor has joined #lounge [19:09] <harryfreak359> Sooner! [19:09] <fawkes28> hello sooner [19:09] <SoonerGryffindor> hey guys [19:09] <nijolijo> so its not my computer then [19:09] <Expelliarmas> Sooner! [19:09] <nympheart> hi sooner [19:09] * Whisperwing cringes [19:09] <stewiegryf> sooner! [19:09] <fawkes28> another one for our side [19:09] <DumbleDebbie> Sooner! smile [19:09] <Poet> Hi SoonerGryffindor [19:09] <An_Eternal_Night> hi Sooner [19:09] <Hedwigger7> Sooner! [19:10] <stewiegryf> "Just don't tell SoonerGryffindor that Snape is mean, oh no!" [19:10] <atschpe> Hi nijolijo [19:10] * Poet lets out a little woot [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> Snuffles wouldnt let me in for a moment there [19:10] <Whisperwing> Someone said something hours ago about burgers, but I doubt they've been made. [19:10] <nijolijo> im on the snape lovers side [19:10] <harryfreak359> I had problems as well Sooner [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> must be afraif of my Snape thoughts. laugh [19:10] <atschpe> hi Sooner [19:10] <Expelliarmas> hahaha, maybe Snuffles can't take snivellus either [19:10] <fawkes28> i still saw it, poet wink [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> hey Hilde [19:10] <nympheart> I'm for independent EvilSnape [19:10] <DumbleDebbie> it's screening people Sooner wink [19:10] <Whisperwing> Ooh, this would be a good time to relisten to SnapeCast 8! [19:10] <harryfreak359> I think so [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Debbie [19:10] <Hedwigger7> Its the anti-Snapes , hem hem, out there sabotaging Snuffles... [19:10] <AlchemistApprentice> all the hellos to Sooner makes me think of norm from the Tv show cheers [19:10] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Al [19:10] <Expelliarmas> shame MaraudingDon couldn't join this chat [19:10] *** futureweasley has joined #lounge [19:10] *** Punky has joined #lounge [19:10] <nijolijo> hi [19:11] <Poet> too true [19:11] <stewiegryf> future's back! [19:11] <SoonerGryffindor> very true Expie [19:11] <harryfreak359> Future! [19:11] <Aislinn> future, are you here? [19:11] <harryfreak359> Punky!!! [19:11] <Hedwigger7> wb Future! [19:11] <nympheart> lol, maraudingdon would be fun [19:11] <Poet> We could all use a good shampooing [19:11] <nijolijo> hi punks [19:11] <Punky> Hi! [19:11] <SoonerGryffindor> can you see us future? [19:11] <DumbleDebbie> wb Future smile [19:11] <Aislinn> ooh, we need mauraudingdon! [19:11] <futureweasley> mic check? [19:11] * Expelliarmas thinks maraudingdon should be found ASAP [19:11] <futureweasley> am I here? [19:11] <AlchemistApprentice> someone skype her and tell her she is needed [19:11] <DumbleDebbie> hea ya FW smile [19:11] <nijolijo> how do we change the color of the text? [19:11] <Expelliarmas> there you are fw [19:12] <nijolijo> how do we change the color of the text? [19:12] <Expelliarmas> there you are fw [19:12] <DumbleDebbie> *hear [19:12] <harryfreak359> I see ya FW [19:12] <Aislinn> you are! [19:12] <futureweasley> YAY! [19:12] <Punky> Hey FW [19:12] <stewiegryf> loud and clear future [19:12] <futureweasley> hi Punky! [19:12] <Expelliarmas> see the >> to the right of the text box, click there and chose a color--but not green [19:12] <futureweasley> good to see you here!! [19:12] <Punky> And you smile [19:12] <futureweasley> and, HI everyone!! [19:12] <Poet> Excellent [19:12] <nijolijo> ok thanx smile [19:12] <nympheart> hi fw [19:12] <An_Eternal_Night> hi future! [19:12] <Whisperwing> There's no salmon though, or peach, or turquoise.... [19:12] <Whisperwing> or sparkly [19:12] <Expelliarmas> that's a good color right there nijolijo [19:12] <nijolijo> m salmon [19:13] *** BakerMill has joined #lounge [19:13] <nijolijo> tyvm [19:13] <Whisperwing> I want sparkly text! [19:13] <nijolijo> lol [19:13] * Whisperwing sniffles [19:13] * nympheart thinks there should be more shades of purple [19:13] <An_Eternal_Night> what we need is a Gryffindor Scarlet [19:13] <SoonerGryffindor> I am so looking forward and dreading this chat at the same time [19:13] <Poet> The background is already salmon (starts to drool) [19:13] <harryfreak359> I like green [19:13] <AlchemistApprentice> lol sooner [19:13] <Whisperwing> Mine's beige [19:13] <DumbleDebbie> lol Sooner [19:13] <harryfreak359> hahaha Sooner [19:13] <BakerMill> i can't believe i'm in a harry potter chat [19:13] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome baker [19:13] <nijolijo> we all are [19:13] <Poet> Hi Baker [19:13] <atschpe> Same here Sooner … [19:13] <Expelliarmas> why not BakerMill, it's a regular occurrence here [19:13] <BakerMill> hi [19:13] <SoonerGryffindor> this will be a wild one for sure [19:14] <harryfreak359> I've been waiting for this chat all day [19:14] <fawkes28> me too, hf [19:14] <nympheart> at least we're nerds with you [19:14] <harryfreak359> counting down, everything [19:14] <nijolijo> punkys been counting down the minutes [19:14] <Punky> I am smile [19:14] <atschpe> I've even stayed up – lucky I don't have to go to work tomorrow [19:14] <harryfreak359> yeah she has [19:14] <nijolijo> lol [19:14] <harryfreak359> :) [19:14] <stewiegryf> I'm just sad that I have stupid class tonight...and there's a quiz. sad [19:14] <fawkes28> yay, atschpe! [19:14] <futureweasley> that stinks stewie! [19:14] <stewiegryf> I can't stay for the whole thing. [19:14] <SoonerGryffindor> you guys have no idea how hard it was to write questions for this [19:14] <Whisperwing> rough night, what with the last Lost until February being on tonight. [19:14] *** Belenzie has quit [Bye] [19:14] <Expelliarmas> haha, stewie, I have a class tonight as well. Depending on how this chat goes, that's what the minions will get [19:14] <harryfreak359> awww Stewie [19:14] <atschpe> I can imagine Sooner … [19:15] <Whisperwing> and Ghost Hunters too [19:15] <Poet> stewiegryf - this is why I was so happy to get all my classes on Tue/Thu this semester [19:15] <harryfreak359> Hahaha [19:15] <BakerMill> yes, i've never actually read any of the books. (hangs head in shame). I'm going to start tonight! [19:15] <nijolijo> omg [19:15] <nympheart> Baker! [19:15] <stewiegryf> well, i've got that next semester poet! [19:15] <Aislinn> you need to get them otherwise occupied, expie, as I will be needing your support ;) [19:15] <Whisperwing> Seen the movies though? [19:15] <nijolijo> no way [19:15] <BakerMill> no :-( [19:15] <harryfreak359> I have a horrible headache today...but nothing can stop me from enjoying this chat [19:15] <AlchemistApprentice> ok so what is first on the agenda tonight... ooh my Baker! [19:15] <BakerMill> this chat is too advanced for me [19:15] <nijolijo> :O [19:15] <futureweasley> We will be starting the discussion in a few minutes. You’re not going to be able to type for a few minutes while we make some announcements, please bear with us, you’ll be able to type again soon. [19:15] <Poet> Baker - you might get spoiled - you will get spoiled in here, sadly [19:16] <futureweasley> There may be times during the chat when a moderator will want to PM something to you. Please keep an eye on the top of your screen, right next to the button with #Lounge on it. A button will appear with one of the mods' names on it. If you see that appear, click on it to see the PM that has been sent to you by that mod [19:16] *** Gryffinclaw has joined #lounge [19:16] <futureweasley> You won’t be able to reply to that PM, but if you could just say something like "Sooner, got it” in the main chat, to let us know that you have seen it, that will be great. We'd also like to remind you that the rules of the Lounge also apply here in the Corner Booth, and may be found here: http://www.leakylounge.com/?act=rules [19:16] <futureweasley> If you need to contact us during the chat, send one, or all, of us a PM on the Lounge. We will be checking them regularly, but if we haven't replied after a little while then please let us know here that you have sent a PM. Thanks for your cooperation! [19:16] <futureweasley> While its easy to drift off in various directions, let's all try to have a fun chat by sticking to the topic for today. OK, moving on to the topic for the chat! [19:16] <Aislinn> Tonight we will be discussing Professor Severus Snape. Archrival to James Potter and Sirius Black back in his school days. Hired as Potions Master & Head of Slytherin House at Hogwarts in 1981; made Defense against the Dark Arts professor in 1996. Now a fugitive, whereabouts unknown. [19:16] <Aislinn> We first see Severus Snape through Harry Potter's eyes in book 1: "a professor with greasy black hair, a hooked nose, and sallow skin. His eyes were black like Hagrid’s, but they had none of Hagrid’s warmth. They were cold and empty and made you think of dark tunnels" [19:17] <Aislinn> Numerous essays have been written about this character and thread after thread in the forums has discussed every move that he has made. Hang on and get ready for the wild ride for the next 2 hours while we discuss one of the most controversial, complicated fictional characters ever penned. [19:17] <Aislinn> Do you think that we get an accurate depiction of Severus Snape, or does the "Harry filter" skew him somewhat? [19:17] <Expelliarmas> Well, we left off the lovely yellow teeth [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> I think a little of both [19:17] <Whisperwing> ooooh.. cinnamon buns.... wish I could make some... but nooooo, not until maybe this weekend, if I'm lucky..... [19:17] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Expie [19:17] <nijolijo> lol [19:17] <futureweasley> the "Harry filter" is definitely a factor [19:17] <harryfreak359> lol [19:17] <Hedwigger7> Skewed mostly... but what we saw without Harry was also perpelexing... [19:17] <nympheart> I think Harry throws it off a bit, but there is no way you can get a pleasant person either way [19:17] <Poet> There is some skewing for sure. We have little to no idea of his conversations with DD for instance [19:17] <DumbleDebbie> I think the initial physical description is accurate [19:17] <atschpe> It's definitely a Harry filter [19:17] <Whisperwing> Oh the Harry filter absolutely skews him, he doesn't seem nearly as sinister in SPinner's End! [19:17] <bemused> somewhat!!! [19:17] <AlchemistApprentice> also in scholastic editions of the book he is drawn with a beard- signifigant or not? [19:17] <Aislinn> I don't think it's as much of a filter as many believe [19:18] <fawkes28> i dont think he does [19:18] <harryfreak359> I think the Harry filter shows a biased light of him [19:18] <BakerMill> bye room i love you! [19:18] <Expelliarmas> I think we see Severus through Harry's eyes, but then what about the other students who see him the same way? [19:18] <Punky> But he's so ambiguous, from that sense it's accurate [19:18] <DumbleDebbie> later on things will be skewed by Harry's experiences wtih Snape [19:18] <Hedwigger7> Why not AIs? [19:18] <bemused> I think the beard gives quite the wrong impression [19:18] <stewiegryf> I think there is some filtering that goes on there [19:18] <Poet> Bye Baker [19:18] <SoonerGryffindor> One thing that is never mentioned is that Snape smells. This must mean he has more personal hygeine than we are led to believe by Harry [19:18] <Aislinn> there are scenes we are able to view through Harry's eyes, but the actions are still crystal clear [19:18] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Sooner! [19:18] <futureweasley> I think there are certain "truths" to what Harry shows us...but there is a lot that is masked by his own personal bias [19:18] <Expelliarmas> Perhaps no one gets close enough to Snape to tell, Sooner. [19:18] <atschpe> Well, we have heard little from students who actually like him … [19:18] *** BakerMill has quit [Bye] [19:18] <Hedwigger7> He can just have very thin hair you know, it needn't mean he's dirty... [19:19] <nijolijo> snape isnt close to anyone [19:19] <atschpe> Exactly, Hedwigger [19:19] <Whisperwing> (Oh shame on me -- only listened to 15 minutes of Snapecast since it downloaded.) [19:19] <Expelliarmas> Of course, having Snape jump down Harry's throat and try to embarrass him the first class didn't help [19:19] * DumbleDebbie hides the 2x4 from Expie and Sooner [19:19] <AlchemistApprentice> well action speak louder than words the question is whether Harry sees all of Snape's actions or just some of them [19:19] <nympheart> Snape is always evil to Neville too [19:19] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Debbie [19:19] <nijolijo> harry only sees the bad iin him [19:19] *** Belenzie has joined #lounge [19:19] <Aislinn> true al, and surely he doesn't see them all [19:19] <Hedwigger7> Snape isn't nice to any kids, really, and even Draco dumps on him when pushed... So no one is going to see him in favorable light... [19:20] <fawkes28> lol debbie [19:20] <futureweasley> hi Belenzie [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> Expie and I know how each other feels about this [19:20] <atschpe> I think he miss interprets a few or understands them wrong. [19:20] <AlchemistApprentice> yes Snape is mean to all students other than slytherins [19:20] <harryfreak359> yes, AL [19:20] <Aislinn> but the ones he sees are not very admirable [19:20] <Hedwigger7> Except a certain head of Hogwarts. [19:20] <bemused> doesn't have a lot of patience, our Severus! [19:20] <Whisperwing> Evil would be much more damaging, he's bullying, but he doesn't do the boy any actual harm, does he? [19:20] <nympheart> that's arguable whisper [19:20] <Expelliarmas> When has Snape been kind? Even when he smiles, people know nothing good will come of it [19:20] <nijolijo> no he doesnt and he has saved him a few trimes when he didnt have to [19:20] <Whisperwing> In fact you might say his treatment of Neville in Potions class is what gives Neville something to compare to once he starts herbology. [19:20] <Poet> Evil or not, I think both Snape and Harry and determined to see each other not as they really are, but how they want to see one another. [19:20] <nijolijo> harry forgets that [19:20] <SoonerGryffindor> I think some of it is exaggerated by the Harry filter and some of it is Snape [19:20] <fawkes28> oh, expie, we could be here all night if i answer that [19:20] <Hedwigger7> Ditto Poet. [19:20] <futureweasley> it's like "selective hearing"...only Harry only sees what Snape chooses to show him...or what Harry discovered on his "sneakarounds" [19:21] <harryfreak359> I agree Sooner [19:21] <Gryffinclaw> There is a Harry filter but when the Narrater talks about Snape they make him sound bad too [19:21] <atschpe> I agree POet. [19:21] <Aislinn> you're right, poet, neither one sees the other objectively [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> There is only one time we see Snape without the Harry filter though Griffinclaw [19:21] <harryfreak359> I agree Poet [19:21] <Expelliarmas> I would have agreed with that Poet, but for the first class with the Potions Master. What had Harry done to deserve that treatment? From that point forward, there was no chance of them reaching any mutual understanding. [19:21] <AlchemistApprentice> yes Snapes actions are never seen from beginning to end- so how much is left to our imagination and how much is delibrately left out by harry since Harry only sees Snape through a filter of his own [19:21] <Aislinn> Why do you think the sorting hat put Snape in Slytherin? [19:21] <Whisperwing> He certainly seemed sincere with Narcissa [19:21] <SoonerGryffindor> and that is at Spinners End where he seemed A LOT different [19:21] <futureweasley> but Harry is only looking for evidence against Snape...so that's all we see [19:21] <fawkes28> because he is ambitious [19:21] <Whisperwing> Why else? He was desperate to prove his worth [19:21] <harryfreak359> Well because I think he was very ambitious [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> that is strange, because he is half-blood [19:22] <fawkes28> he has been dying for the DADA position for years [19:22] <nympheart> Snape started at the bottom, so of course he's ambitious to rise [19:22] <futureweasley> Snape is all about himself...cunning and ambitious to a fault [19:22] <Gryffinclaw> Because Snape is cunning [19:22] <nympheart> and you can't say he's not clever [19:22] <stewiegryf> Snape is very cunning and ambitious and that's the epitome of Slytherin. [19:22] <An_Eternal_Night> he is cunning, and has many Slytheriny qualities [19:22] <Punky> given the choice he'd save himself [19:22] <Hedwigger7> Expel -- Snape has a reason and we come to know it later. Harry is little James. [19:22] <Whisperwing> He couldn't have felt very worthwhile growing up in an abusive environment. [19:22] <Poet> And so we get a Catch 22 situation sometimes where they think they hate each other and they make it so. Snape from the get-go saw Harry as his father... [19:22] <nympheart> Snape's sensitivity about cowardice suggests that he isn't brave [19:22] <Aislinn> I think he shows all of the traits described by the hat - cunning, ambitious [19:22] <nijolijo> i dont thinkk so punky [19:22] <Expelliarmas> Well, he's sneaky, cunning, sly, holds a grude forever, and will go far to get what he wants [19:22] <atschpe> I think at the time he was very ambitious and most interested in his own safety. [19:22] <Gryffinclaw> Snape seemed different at Spinners End, I'll agree but he seemed more favourable towards LV then [19:22] <SoonerGryffindor> Seems to me that the line between Slytherin and Gryffindor is very fine [19:22] <AlchemistApprentice> Snape is cunning but also talented and think Lv bad or evil they are talented [19:22] <Belenzie> just because his parents were screaming AT EACH OTHER does not mean he was abused [19:23] <An_Eternal_Night> that's not what I got out of it, nymph [19:23] <futureweasley> I agree nympheart...but there is noone else playing both sides...I think that takes guts [19:23] <Expelliarmas> he might also have had some of the same beliefs about purebloods as Slytherin did [19:23] <stewiegryf> It is Sooner...that's why Gyrffindor and Slytherin used to be such good friends. [19:23] <DumbleDebbie> self loathing Expie? [19:23] <nympheart> is he playing them both for gain, or to save himself though? [19:23] <atschpe> Because he is talking to Death Eaters – he'd be daed if he didn't show or feign inclination to the Voldy [19:23] <nijolijo> no way expelliarmus [19:23] <Expelliarmas> maybe, DumbleDebbie [19:23] <SoonerGryffindor> Snape embodies a lot of Slytherin traits, but I also think he would have made a good Gryffindor as well [19:23] <DumbleDebbie> ewww Sooner! [19:23] <Gryffinclaw> true atschpe [19:23] <harryfreak359> ehhhh [19:23] <Expelliarmas> Oh I don't think so, Sooner [19:23] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [19:23] <AlchemistApprentice> hmmm gryinffdor why sooner? [19:24] <An_Eternal_Night> I agree with that Sooner [19:24] <nijolijo> i think hes brave too [19:24] <Expelliarmas> too sneaky and self absorbed to go that route [19:24] <atschpe> Ditto Sooner [19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> He is brave, and very successful at what he does [19:24] <nijolijo> has to be to do what he has been doing [19:24] <harryfreak359> well, yeah I guess... [19:24] <bemused> Why self-absorbed? [19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> whether he is good or bad, he has guts [19:24] <nympheart> where does he exibit bravery? [19:24] <Expelliarmas> there are hufflepuffs and ravenclaws who are brave and good at what they do [19:24] <Gryffinclaw> Where are examples of his braveness? [19:24] <DumbleDebbie> I think the difference between them is Gryffindors are brave for others Slytherings are brave for themsleves [19:24] <stewiegryf> Like the guy or not, you have to admit he's brave to do the things he's been doing for years. [19:24] <fawkes28> he does, sooner [19:24] <atschpe> I could see young Snape though not being that brave yet. [19:24] <AlchemistApprentice> so when Snape sat under the sorting hat did the hat have to debate his placement as it did Harry's? [19:24] <nijolijo> very brave [19:24] <SoonerGryffindor> he is either fooling DD or LV. Either way takes a LOT of bravery [19:24] <nijolijo> working for both sides the way he has been [19:24] <fawkes28> he is also smart so i think he wouldnt have done too badly with ravenclaw [19:24] <Expelliarmas> Don't think it's bravery--it's fence sitting waiting to see how things turn out [19:24] <Hedwigger7> Yes Sooner, he does have to be brave to place himself where he is... but he's also ambitious as heck. [19:25] <harryfreak359> Agreed Sooner [19:25] <Gryffinclaw> Agree with Expel [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> but ambition is not bad [19:25] <Poet> We see everything through the Harry filter, even Dumbledore. Almost everyone is more of a mystery to us than Harry. [19:25] <nympheart> that's what i think too expie [19:25] <nympheart> ambition is bad in large quantities [19:25] <Aislinn> but his reasons for doing things are very personal sooner, not outwardly driven [19:25] <bemused> He wasnt recognition - is tht the same as being ambitious? [19:25] <atschpe> Everything is bad if it' [19:25] <SoonerGryffindor> we dont know that for sure [19:25] <Aislinn> that is much more a slytherin trait than a Gryffindor one [19:25] <Belenzie> the fact he was adamant about not being called a coward shows the want of...........lost my train of thought someone else finish it for me lolz [19:25] <AlchemistApprentice> yes Aislinn agreed [19:25] <Hedwigger7> Yes bemused. [19:25] <atschpe> …bad if it's unbalanced – sorry there [19:25] <harryfreak359> I agree with Sooner [19:26] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree that the hat made the right choice, and it is never wrong any way, But I still think there is not much difference [19:26] <bemused> I don't think it is, quite... [19:26] <Expelliarmas> he's not doing what he's doing to save the wizarding world, it's Snape first, if it works out for the wizarding world and he gets a bit of glory to boot, then he'll be happy to ride that wave as well [19:26] <nijolijo> i think deep down snape is good and it will be shown in the end [19:26] <bemused> I don't agree with that at all, expel [19:26] <Aislinn> exactly expie [19:26] <nympheart> I still say Snape is playing both sides because he is afraid of being singled out [19:26] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, Expie - I do think he's doing whatever he's doing for selfish reasons [19:26] <Gryffinclaw> Agree with Expie [19:26] <atschpe> If it's Snape first why on earth would he give the Death-mark tutorial at the end Of GoF [19:26] <Hedwigger7> So Dumbledore has trusted a self serving man all these years? [19:26] <AlchemistApprentice> yes good side but he is still a nasty man if that makes sense [19:27] <futureweasley> it makes total sense AA [19:27] <Aislinn> yes, hed [19:27] <DumbleDebbie> yep, Heg. DD knew Snape had a role to play in the big chess match [19:27] <Expelliarmas> He was still in the role of the double spy. No one said he wasn't a superb actor. [19:27] <Hedwigger7> How little you think of the old guy... [19:27] <Aislinn> because he is a too trusting soul [19:27] <nympheart> yes [19:27] <fawkes28> no, aislinn dumbledore is right [19:27] <AlchemistApprentice> some of the most self serving men in history did alot of good but that doesn't make them a nice person [19:27] <bemused> but he's not sim, Aislinn [19:27] <Hedwigger7> Go fawkes. [19:27] <Whisperwing> He wants to feel he's risen above his 'low' background, become something more than either his mother or his Muggle father. [19:27] <Expelliarmas> Yes, DD alllowed himself to be fooled [19:27] <bemused> sorry, dim! [19:28] <futureweasley> thank you Expie [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> I also thnk that maybe Snape asked the hat to put him in Slytherin [19:28] <DumbleDebbie> I think the world of DD Hegwig. I think Snape's role, whatever it ends up being is necessary ad DD knew it [19:28] <fawkes28> no, expie [19:28] <Hedwigger7> Toward what end -- "be fooled?" [19:28] <nijolijo> but was he really fooled????? [19:28] <futureweasley> DD was very foolish to trust Snape so blindly [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> much like Harry asked to be put in Gryffindor [19:28] <Gryffinclaw> True [19:28] <Poet> Snape is in Slytherin because he has double S's for his name. I think the hat was a little biased smile [19:28] <fawkes28> exactly, nijolijo [19:28] <atschpe> Cause he met James before, Sooner? [19:28] <nympheart> lol poet [19:28] <Hedwigger7> Ditto DDeb [19:28] <An_Eternal_Night> that would be a nice contrast Sooner [19:28] <SoonerGryffindor> I think so atschpe [19:28] <bemused> Who says it was blind though, he had his reasons [19:28] <stewiegryf> we don't know what DD's reasons were future. it may not have been so blind [19:28] <Expelliarmas> DD has always been willing to believe anyone who said s/he had changed--was proof ever really necessary? [19:28] <atschpe> I also pondered on that theory. [19:28] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think DD was fooled. Snape has a part to play [19:29] <nympheart> i think some legillimency was in effect with DD's trust [19:29] <Expelliarmas> lol Poet [19:29] <AlchemistApprentice> oh DD felt that givinng Snape a chance would make him a better person? [19:29] <Hedwigger7> Ditto again DDeb... [19:29] <Whisperwing> He was not blind, he simply chose trust over doubt in the belief that a show of faith would have a positive effect [19:29] <atschpe> Would be a nice parallel to Harry and Draco [19:29] <Expelliarmas> DD was a big believer in second chances [19:29] <nympheart> DD avoided the issue every time he was asked [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> that is a theory I have had for a while [19:29] <fawkes28> DD doesnt have to explain himself to anyone [19:29] <futureweasley> all I hear from you right now Debbie is blah, blah, blah... laugh [19:29] <Aislinn> yes, expie, I think he wants to give second chances and the benefit of the doubt [19:29] <harryfreak359> yes [19:29] <Hedwigger7> Dumbledore's trust hasn't been disproved yet... [19:29] <nijolijo> i think DD knew all along what snape was doing,, i dont think he was fooled,, DD is the greatest wiz of all time, im sure he had/has his reasons for trusting snape and im sure they will be justified in book 7 [19:29] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry =Snape; Draco=James [19:29] <fawkes28> future!! [19:29] <bemused> perhaps what he knew was too personal to Snape [19:29] <atschpe> Yep, I hear you [19:30] <Aislinn> well, he was killed hed [19:30] <DumbleDebbie> and we stil don't know what DD's reason was for letting Snape teach and be in the Order [19:30] <stewiegryf> Play nice future! [19:30] <harryfreak359> I agree Sooner [19:30] <AlchemistApprentice> yes DDebbie!! [19:30] <nympheart> DD said why he trusted Snape [19:30] <Hedwigger7> And? [19:30] <atschpe> I like the theory – but am a bit torn if young Snape would have even had the traits of a Gryffindor back then. [19:30] <Aislinn> OK, moving away from DD for a minute: [19:30] <Aislinn> Do you think that the relationship between Snape and his mother is significant? [19:30] <nympheart> and there's a gaping hole in it [19:30] <Hedwigger7> He was dying already for many of us Ais. [19:30] <Gryffinclaw> No [19:30] <Whisperwing> He could easily have been simultaneously very wrong and completely right in trusting Severus. [19:30] <DumbleDebbie> I still wonder sometimes if Snape will be like Gollum, necessary but in the end selfish [19:30] <nympheart> only a little [19:30] <Whisperwing> Absolutely [19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Jo has made mothers be very important [19:30] <Poet> Snape's mother seems to have taken the middle road, with Lily and Merope on the extremes. [19:30] <fawkes28> yes, i do [19:30] <SoonerGryffindor> so yes [19:30] <Expelliarmas> Yes. I'll be he wondered what on earth possessed her marry a Muggle. [19:30] <An_Eternal_Night> I think it is significant [19:30] <Punky> Yes I think how much he was loved plays a role [19:31] <Expelliarmas> *bet [19:31] <futureweasley> I don't think that she's the woman JKR has referred to as the one who "loved" Snape [19:31] <AlchemistApprentice> ooh of course why else do people pay for couch time- it is all about the mother!!!!! [19:31] <nijolijo> no but i think the relationship between lily and snape is significant [19:31] <atschpe> It will have definitely formed him – whether it was good or bad [19:31] <stewiegryf> Good point Poet [19:31] <harryfreak359> I dunno really, but it might be [19:31] <Hedwigger7> She taught him Dark Magic maybe... [19:31] <nympheart> i think it's only important because they didn't see eye to eye [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> I love that point Poet [19:31] <bemused> I think she might turn up, yet [19:31] <stewiegryf> Maybe that shaped his ambiguity later in life... [19:31] <Hedwigger7> WHo then future? [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> I think you are so right on that [19:31] <atschpe> And somehow I think that there wasn't a strong bond there. [19:31] <nympheart> i think so too atschpe [19:31] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> it is interesting that she was pure-blood and married a muggle [19:31] <Expelliarmas> heya MrM [19:31] <nympheart> hi MrM [19:31] <DumbleDebbie> hey Mr, M smile [19:31] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome Mr M [19:31] <fawkes28> i think that she did love snape and that is the difference between snape and voldemort [19:32] <fawkes28> hi mr. m [19:32] <An_Eternal_Night> hi MrM [19:32] <Aislinn> in what way is she significant, if you believe she was? [19:32] <futureweasley> Hedwigger, I think it's Petunia...but that's another chat [19:32] <harryfreak359> don't ask her that Hedwigger [19:32] <Poet> Merope gave up her child, Lily died for her child, Snape's mother seems to have been unable to protect her child, but still stuck with her husband [19:32] <Hedwigger7> Welcome! [19:32] <Aislinn> Hi Mr M [19:32] <AlchemistApprentice> strong bond or not the relationships of mom's in the series can't be ignored I think there is more to Snape's mom to be revealed [19:32] <Expelliarmas> I've seen no evidence of motherly love directed at Severus [19:32] <harryfreak359> Future!!!! [19:32] <Hedwigger7> lol HF [19:32] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Eileen Snape is the one who loved him [19:32] <DumbleDebbie> she gave birth to the greasy git wink [19:32] <harryfreak359> Ewww,,,,ewww....eww [19:32] <futureweasley> II'm trying to stay objective...it's hard [19:32] <Hedwigger7> Ok, thanks Future... [19:32] <fawkes28> right, future [19:32] <Whisperwing> She may have been interceding for Severus's protection the times she was getting the brunt of the abuse. [19:32] <harryfreak359> *shudder* [19:33] <Expelliarmas> she may have given birth to ol' greasball, but we don't know what other wizards had an influence on him growing up. Maybe other pureblood cousins? [19:33] * stewiegryf must be getting to class now [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> I still think there is more to the story than we know [19:33] <stewiegryf> Bye all! Have fun! [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> We just don't know that much about Eileen Prince. [19:33] <harryfreak359> awww...bye stewie! [19:33] <Poet> If arguments were a common occurance, as they appear to have been from Snape's memory, he may have had trouble feeling loved growing up. [19:33] <DumbleDebbie> bye stewie [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> bye stewie [19:33] *** stewiegryf left #lounge [] [19:33] <nympheart> bye stwie [19:33] <An_Eternal_Night> definitely Sooner [19:33] <Hedwigger7> Bye stew! [19:33] * Expelliarmas wonders why a witch would take abuse from a Muggle ("silencio") [19:33] <Gryffinclaw> See ya stewie [19:33] <DumbleDebbie> definitely Sooner [19:33] <nympheart> Merope [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> I see Snape [19:33] <harryfreak359> Agreed MrMcG...therefore we can't really judge anything [19:33] <MrMcGonagall> I see Snape's mother as being rather Merope-like. [19:33] <DumbleDebbie> twooo wuv Expie? [19:33] <harryfreak359> I do too [19:33] <SoonerGryffindor> I also have a theory about where his mother may be, but that is definitely for another chat [19:33] <Whisperwing> Why do Muggle women 'take' the abuse? [19:34] <AlchemistApprentice> hmm intresting MrM [19:34] <nijolijo> maybe feeling loved but he did love someone and that is the difference [19:34] <Expelliarmas> No way, DD, not the way they were arguing [19:34] <atschpe> I read a interesting theory that Snape is somehow related to the Balck's and was thus around Grimauld Place as a child [19:34] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [19:34] <Aislinn> Is she the person that has loved Snape? [19:34] <nympheart> I don't think Eileen was quite as spineless as Merope, but close [19:34] <atschpe> It might actually explain some aspects of the rivalry between the Marauders and him [19:34] <nijolijo> hmmmmm ats [19:34] <harryfreak359> ummm no [19:34] <An_Eternal_Night> I believe so [19:34] <nympheart> yes, but I don't think she communicated it well [19:34] <SoonerGryffindor> I think so [19:34] <DumbleDebbie> You'd hope so, being his mum [19:34] <Expelliarmas> I have no idea who the woman was who loved Snape (but if it wasn't his mamma, I *shudder*) [19:34] <AlchemistApprentice> well it is hard to say that a mother didn't love her child but there is so much unknown [19:34] <Gryffinclaw> She loved Snape [19:34] <bemused> I think that's likely, aislinn [19:34] <atschpe> I think JKR isn't talking about motherly love here. [19:35] <nijolijo> ats i think theres another reason james and snape fought all the time [19:35] <Poet> I agree atschpe [19:35] <harryfreak359> I agree atschpe [19:35] <Gryffinclaw> Actually Expie, we don't know if it was a women [19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Expie [19:35] <Expelliarmas> ok, worse [19:35] <Whisperwing> Oh, you didn't go there. [19:35] <SoonerGryffindor> for once, I agree with you on something concerning Snape [19:35] <Hedwigger7> Yea, am not sure Eileen will be the "love" discussed. Doesn't seem to flow with the rest of what we know of Sev. [19:35] <nijolijo> lol [19:35] <fawkes28> i agree, atschpe, but i still think eileen loved snape [19:35] <Aislinn> you think it's romantic love Jo is talking about atschpe? [19:35] <bemused> who then, Hedwigger? [19:35] <nijolijo> i think the Love discussed was snape loving lily potter [19:35] <nympheart> i think Lily's the theory [19:35] <harryfreak359> quite possibly...or a different love [19:36] <futureweasley> You guys...it's so obvious...Petunia loved Snape [19:36] <nympheart> lol fw [19:36] <atschpe> Or on the basis of friendship. [19:36] <nijolijo> yes nym [19:36] <Punky> lol fw [19:36] <AlchemistApprentice> welll that is another chat future [19:36] <DumbleDebbie> lol FW [19:36] <Whisperwing> No, it wasn't his love for someone else, it was someone else's love for him. [19:36] <Gryffinclaw> Oh Dear Future [19:36] <Hedwigger7> Well, as future suggested, possibly Petunia... There's more to her than meets the eye... and he may have had a thang for sis Lil. [19:36] <harryfreak359> yes..friendship kind of love [19:36] <Expelliarmas> lol fw, had it been petunia, she would have said that awful, greasy boy [19:36] <Poet> I think there is a girl who at least loved him as a friend - remember that weird (non-canon) speech by Lupin in Movie 3? Lily seems like a very loving, caring person [19:36] <MrMcGonagall> I think I agree with atschpe - I don't know that it's Snape's mother's love is the significant one for the story. [19:36] <Gryffinclaw> Lol Expie [19:36] <Whisperwing> The quote is that he has been loved and that's why what he's done is so much worse than VOldemort. [19:36] <SoonerGryffindor> lol future. I really do think it is his mother because of the importamce that Jo has placed on mothers in this series [19:36] <bemused> Snape to Vernon's quite a change [19:36] <Gryffinclaw> lol [19:37] <nympheart> I don't think Lily loved Snape [19:37] <nympheart> but I do think he had a thing for her [19:37] <futureweasley> no...it wasn't Lily [19:37] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, nymph. [19:37] <nijolijo> no but snape loved lily [19:37] <Hedwigger7> Me too nymph.. [19:37] <harryfreak359> Yes, I think she may have loved him, but I don't think thats the one she meant [19:37] <Gryffinclaw> Possibly Nymph [19:37] <futureweasley> unless possible platonic [19:37] <harryfreak359> I agree Nymph [19:37] <Expelliarmas> I don't think it was Lily "loving" Snape. Friendship, perhaps, but love? Nope. [19:37] <atschpe> Not in the way of romantic at least – but I could see a friendship between them [19:37] <MrMcGonagall> I think he may have been a little conflicted about the feelings he had for her. [19:37] <AlchemistApprentice> wait a sec if Snape's mother and their relationship an indication of who Snape fell in love with?? [19:37] <nympheart> I think she liked him platonically until fifth year [19:37] *** Pellinore has joined #lounge [19:37] <harryfreak359> I think she may have been kind to him [19:37] <atschpe> Perhaps even allwoing Snape to confide in Lily. [19:37] * SoonerGryffindor gets the heebie-jeebies even thinking about Lily loving Snape. [19:37] <DumbleDebbie> hi Pellinore [19:37] <harryfreak359> and befriender him [19:37] <Whisperwing> What about when Bertha Jorkins caught someone kissing in the greenhouse and got hexed for it? Doesn't it seem like that would have been Snape? [19:38] <Pellinore> evening smile [19:38] <harryfreak359> lol sooner [19:38] <MrMcGonagall> I agree with you, too, Sooner1 [19:38] <Gryffinclaw> I'm more inclined to believe Snape loved Lily but the feeling wasn't mutual [19:38] <An_Eternal_Night> hello Pellinore [19:38] <Expelliarmas> interesting thought, ww [19:38] <MrMcGonagall> I'm with Gryffinclaw. [19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome Pellinore [19:38] <atschpe> HI Pellinore [19:38] <Hedwigger7> Yes Gryff; Whisper.... mmmmmm, that's interesting... [19:38] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Snape liked Lily, but not loved [19:38] <Aislinn> that's possible gryffinclaw [19:38] <Expelliarmas> I can see Snape coveting what James had [19:38] <nijolijo> i think what makes the difference between snape and lv is that snape has loved,,, meaning lily i think [19:38] <nympheart> point sooner, I don't think love is the right word [19:38] <Aislinn> I wondered about that comment too whisper [19:38] <Whisperwing> Coveting maybe, but not loving her. [19:38] <DumbleDebbie> good point Expie [19:38] <MrMcGonagall> I think he never admitted to anyone but DD wwhat he felt for Lily. [19:39] <nympheart> obsessed perhaps? [19:39] <Expelliarmas> obsessed maybe, but that's not love [19:39] <Pellinore> I'd buy into the Snape loved Lily or tried to pull a fast one on James Potter by polyjuicing into him then Lily kissing Snape thinking it was James and blowing Snape's mind [19:39] <fawkes28> erhaps, mr. m [19:39] <Poet> I don't think Lily was in love with Snape, but I do think she had unconditional love in her heart for him at least when they were in their first few years at Hogwarts [19:39] <fawkes28> *perhaps [19:39] <Whisperwing> I can only see him wanting to hurt James by 'stealing' Lily from him. [19:39] <Expelliarmas> wow, Pellinore [19:39] <harryfreak359> I agree MrMcG [19:39] <An_Eternal_Night> Lily reminds me a lot of Ginny, so many people probably liked Lily [19:39] <nympheart> yes AEN [19:39] <Hedwigger7> You don't think his feeling was sincere Whisper? [19:39] <Whisperwing> Absolutely not. [19:39] <Aislinn> What do you think the relationship was between Snape and his father? [19:40] <atschpe> Yeah, ww [19:40] <MrMcGonagall> not good. [19:40] <nympheart> i think that one was bad [19:40] <DumbleDebbie> bad [19:40] <Gryffinclaw> Very Poor [19:40] <Expelliarmas> I have a feeling it was cold and distant [19:40] <DumbleDebbie> very, very bad [19:40] <harryfreak359> very bad [19:40] <Poet> I don't think they liked each other one bit [19:40] <Pellinore> contentious at best, abusive at worst [19:40] <Whisperwing> He despised his father as both a Muggle and a base human being. [19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> I think this relationshio may have been what pushed him over the edge into Slytherin and into the Dark Arts [19:40] <nympheart> I suspect it was one of those "You're a witch!" type things [19:40] *** chocolate89 has joined #lounge [19:40] <fawkes28> i don't think they had a good one at all [19:40] <DumbleDebbie> or close and violent Expie [19:40] <Expelliarmas> hmm, seems we have a few DEs with bad father/son relationships [19:40] <AlchemistApprentice> abusive relationship [19:40] <harryfreak359> I agree Sooner [19:40] <atschpe> I doubt he'd treat his son much better than his wife once he knew what they were. [19:40] <MrMcGonagall> Given the pride he takes in his mother's lineage, I think he hated his father. [19:40] <Poet> I agree SoonerGryffindor [19:40] <futureweasley> raging alcoholic...the song "Jeremy" by Pearl Jam comes to mind whenever I think of Snape and his relationship with his parents [19:40] <Gryffinclaw> I th9nk Snape craved a fatherly figure though [19:40] <DumbleDebbie> hi choc [19:40] <An_Eternal_Night> we don't know enough about it... but I don't think it was a loving relationship [19:40] <chocolate89> hey everybody [19:40] <nympheart> hi chocolate [19:40] <AlchemistApprentice> ooh nice Gryffinclaw [19:40] <Gryffinclaw> *think* [19:40] <Aislinn> so everyone is sure that the scene we saw in occlumency class was typical of his father? [19:40] <fawkes28> hi chocolate [19:40] <harryfreak359> hi chocolate [19:40] <SoonerGryffindor> and just his father;s name : Tobias says a lot right there [19:40] <Hedwigger7> Exactly MrMc [19:41] <harryfreak359> yeah, I think so [19:41] <nympheart> I think so Ais [19:41] <chocolate89> me to [19:41] <bemused> Not so sure - calling himself 'half-blood' in private says he wasb't disowning his father [19:41] <Punky> Typical of their relationship at least [19:41] <Expelliarmas> what does it say, Sooner? [19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> I think so Aislinn because of the timing of when Harry saw it [19:41] <nympheart> I think it's an odd name for a muggle, so it must be significant [19:41] <Hedwigger7> Yes Gryff which is why his respect for DD... [19:41] <SoonerGryffindor> To bias [19:41] <Whisperwing> If Eileen Prince's family was anything like the Blacks, she was surely disowned once she became involved with and married a Muggle. [19:41] <Poet> Snape even fashioned a new name for himself [19:41] <harryfreak359> nice [19:41] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Sooner [19:41] <DumbleDebbie> never thought of that [19:41] <Whisperwing> So without any other form of family support, she would have felt trapped, magic or not. [19:41] <Hedwigger7> Yes Ais, one has to get exposition out as one can... [19:41] <Aislinn> that's true whisper [19:41] <MrMcGonagall> Of course, do we know that Eileen was a pure-blood herself? [19:41] <chocolate89> i think they must have been like the blacks [19:41] <nympheart> is there any myths with a tobias in them? [19:41] <Gryffinclaw> I think Snape saw DD as more of a father, but then the evil git muderured him [19:42] <Hedwigger7> Or mocking it bemused. [19:42] <chocolate89> for him to be able to associate himself with the likes of the malfoys [19:42] <atschpe> Yeah, but he contrary to Voldy, used it only in private – never publicly. [19:42] <SoonerGryffindor> lots of them nymph, but I cant go into it here [19:42] <chocolate89> well if snape is "half blood" [19:42] <Expelliarmas> Also don't think Snape grew up in an affluent household [19:42] <chocolate89> then one of his parents had to be pure blood [19:42] <chocolate89> meaning his mother [19:42] <Aislinn> what makes you think that expie? [19:43] <Whisperwing> The house in Spinner's End was probably his father's [19:43] <atschpe> Really, chocolate? [19:43] <Gryffinclaw> Why couldn't Eillen be muggle-born witch? [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> oh, Eileen was definitely a pure-blood, which makes me wonder where she is on the Black family tree [19:43] <Expelliarmas> The conditions of him being alone in a room shooting at flies with his wand [19:43] <chocolate89> wait really at which part? [19:43] <futureweasley> for one thing, he had "grungy undies"...do you think Draco has off-white underwear? I think not [19:43] <harryfreak359> I agree Expie [19:43] <Expelliarmas> and of course, the greasy hair--no attention to grooming from the time he was a kid [19:43] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL FW [19:43] <MrMcGonagall> lol future! [19:43] <DumbleDebbie> LOL FW [19:43] <harryfreak359> lol future... [19:43] <chocolate89> lol [19:43] <Whisperwing> Like I said, once Eileen married a Muggle, she was cut off [19:43] <nympheart> lol, I think Draco has different colored boxers [19:43] <atschpe> I expect she occupied one of the places which has no got a whole through it. [19:43] <chocolate89> i agree [19:43] <Aislinn> maybe once they lost dobby as house elf fw ;) [19:43] <nijolijo> lol [19:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I thnk you are right WW [19:44] <Gryffinclaw> lol [19:44] <Gryffinclaw> Yeah WW is right [19:44] <harryfreak359> I agree Whisperwing [19:44] <chocolate89> me to [19:44] <chocolate89> me to [19:44] * SoonerGryffindor really doesnt want to talk about underpants [19:44] <Aislinn> Sirius Black: "Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in the seventh year and he was part of a gang of Slytherins who nearly all turned out to be Death Eaters". Is this just Sirius exaggerating, or do you think he was being truthful? [19:44] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Sooner [19:44] <chocolate89> definitely truthful [19:44] <Gryffinclaw> Slight exaggeration [19:44] <nympheart> A bit exaggerated, but definitely truth in there [19:44] <SoonerGryffindor> exaggeration [19:44] <chocolate89> look who is still associates with today [19:44] <fawkes28> well, i am sure he exagerrated somewhat [19:44] <atschpe> Exagerationg [19:44] <Gryffinclaw> but his DADA OWL is confirmation he knew a lot [19:44] <AlchemistApprentice> truthful no friends and had that to keep his intrest [19:44] <An_Eternal_Night> I think it was truthful [19:44] <MrMcGonagall> I think Snape probably already had an unhealthy fascination with the Dark Arts. [19:44] <Expelliarmas> Sirius was telling the truth. Snape could have learned from mummy or perhaps cousins [19:44] <DumbleDebbie> some exaggeration , bu tnot much [19:44] <Aislinn> I think there was no reason for him to lie in this circumstance [19:45] <bemused> Sirius' perception of a kid he didn't like [19:45] <fawkes28> the whole truth, expie? [19:45] <atschpe> I doubt Sirius would have had enough knowledge to acutually know this. [19:45] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Debbie [19:45] <SoonerGryffindor> Well, we've all seen that Sirius has a bit of a filter as well [19:45] <nympheart> well, we know Snape invented curses later [19:45] <Pellinore> we don't have a lot to go on for snape's background so i'd believe their's a hint of truth at least to that so he'd have to have learned the Dark Arts from someone before school [19:45] <Poet> I think he knew more than the first year students, but the 7th years is pushing it for sure [19:45] <Expelliarmas> Snape also would have loved to have shown off his prowess while at Hogwarts [19:45] <DumbleDebbie> right, so he had a foundation with taht stuff nymph [19:45] <Whisperwing> There's a grain of truth to that, I believe he knew a lot of curses coming in to Hogwarts, I don't know if a 'gang' is the smae thing as having friends, he was probably a 'part' of that gang the way Peter was 'part' of the Marauders. [19:45] <chocolate89> definitel [19:45] <An_Eternal_Night> I can't imagine students, even seventh years, in Hogwarts learning about too many curses [19:45] <MrMcGonagall> He seems to have been quite the inventer of spells. [19:45] <harryfreak359> I think Sirius kind of exaggerated it a bit, but I think that it was pretty much true..... [19:45] <atschpe> Perhaps little Snapey managed to catch a seventh year unprepared with a jinx – and the myth was born. [19:46] <Hedwigger7> But if he hung out with a gang, where were they in SWM? No one came to his aid cept Lily. [19:46] <fawkes28> since he was smart i am sure that he advanced more quickly than others once he got there [19:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I honestly think that James and Sirius probably gave Snape hell from day one and that he was always having to defend himself against them. I'm sure he used some ugly things against them [19:46] <AlchemistApprentice> well could be an indicator of how talented a wizard Snape was at the time and I loove the remark of Sirius through a filter- bravo!!! [19:46] <Expelliarmas> Sirius would have known what he was talking about--he was a pureblood Black and what was his parents' house filled with? Dark objects. [19:46] <chocolate89> agreed [19:46] <DumbleDebbie> true Expie [19:46] <Pellinore> yea i'd buy that Expie This post has been edited by futureweasley: Nov 8 2006, 09:26 PM |
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Nov 8 2006, 10:10 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner |
[19:46] *** jade_and_diamond_fire has joined #lounge
[19:46] <futureweasley> it's another example of a rivalry passed down...Sirius was willing to say things about Snape that he know Harry would want to believe. It brought them closer together...a mutual hatred for Snape [19:46] <nympheart> hi jade [19:47] <fawkes28> hi jade [19:47] <Poet> Good point Expelliarmas , Sirius was probably also dismayed that Snape was hard to combat [19:47] <DumbleDebbie> hi jade [19:47] <Hedwigger7> I just doubt the "gang" thing was so much of "hanging out." I tink Snape was a loner pretty much all the time. [19:47] <jade_and_diamond_fire> hey everyone! srry i'm late [19:47] <Expelliarmas> James always hated the dark arts, according to Sirius. If ever there were going to be two kids who couldn't stand each other--there they were--a train wreck waiting to happebn [19:47] <Gryffinclaw> Like it FW [19:47] <futureweasley> hi jade [19:47] <SoonerGryffindor> I'm sure Sirius was very capable of recognizing dark arts, but how much of that was disgust from the family environment he grew up in? [19:47] <Aislinn> I think there is a reason that James would have disliked him, and as we heard from the more objective Lupin, it was because he hated anything related to the dark Arts, just like his son does [19:47] <Whisperwing> Sirius was fond of calling Severus Lucius Malfoy's 'lapdog', that's probably about how close Snape must have been with the Slytherins Sirius claimed he was tight with. [19:47] <bemused> I agree Hedwigger [19:47] <nympheart> I agree Hedwigger [19:47] <atschpe> hi jade [19:47] <fawkes28> but don't you think sirius exaggerated a little, future?? [19:47] <MrMcGonagall> I just can't see Eileen Prince, president of the gobstones club, having a lot of Dark objects all over her Muggle husband's house. [19:47] <Gryffinclaw> Very True Mr Mc [19:47] <jade_and_diamond_fire> oh, i'm sure sirius's feelings caused some embellishment [19:47] <futureweasley> I'm absolutely certain that Sirius exaggerated, Fawkes...that's what Sirius does [19:48] <nijolijo> byeeeeeeeeeeeeee all [19:48] <nympheart> why not, she was pureblood, it is possible and someone influenced Snape to be a DE [19:48] <Hedwigger7> Wasn't Lucius a couple of years or more ahead of Snape et al? [19:48] <futureweasley> bye nijolijo [19:48] <atschpe> bye nijolijo [19:48] <chocolate89> he exaggerated to some degree [19:48] <Gryffinclaw> bye [19:48] <Pellinore> possibly Snape was neighbors with a DE family like the malfoy's [19:48] <DumbleDebbie> bye nijo [19:48] <bemused> Sirius told the truth as he saw it - that doesn't make it objectively true [19:48] <chocolate89> but not entireley [19:48] <AlchemistApprentice> bye [19:48] <nympheart> Lucius was older, hedwigger [19:48] <jade_and_diamond_fire> do we know what house Eileen Prince was in? [19:48] <Expelliarmas> Why would Lupin exaggerate? [19:48] <Whisperwing> And yet how can you not think, once Severus was assured of going to Hogwarts, that he didn't run out and teach himself everything he could, just like Hermione with the complete book of spells? [19:48] <Aislinn> Lupin doesn't though FW [19:48] <Aislinn> and he said the same thing [19:48] *** nijolijo has quit [Bye] [19:48] <nympheart> Lupin is as objective as it gets [19:48] <atschpe> Lucius would have been a NEWTs student when Snape came to Hogwarts. [19:48] <Gryffinclaw> yep [19:48] <SoonerGryffindor> Lupin doesnt quite say it in the same way that Sirius does though [19:49] <bemused> Can't stay awake any longer - good night, all [19:49] <AlchemistApprentice> night [19:49] <nympheart> bye bemused [19:49] <chocolate89> bye bemused [19:49] <atschpe> So this oddball might have seemed handy to Lucius as an errandsboy … [19:49] <jade_and_diamond_fire> goodnight, bemused [19:49] <futureweasley> Lupin is not a "wave maker"...if that conversation took place in front of Sirius...I'm sure Lupin just bit his cheek and didn't say anything...because that's what Lupin does [19:49] <An_Eternal_Night> bye bemused [19:49] <Poet> Snape was at Hogwarts while Voldemort was gaining power, canon also shows that Lucius may have been a 6th or 7th year when Snape arrived - no wonder many of the Slytherins in Snape's year became DE [19:49] <atschpe> night bemused [19:49] <chocolate89> exactly [19:49] *** bemused left #lounge [] [19:49] <Gryffinclaw> night bemused [19:49] <Expelliarmas> night bemused [19:49] <jade_and_diamond_fire> interesting ideas atschpe [19:49] <Pellinore> yea Lupin would be the voice of reason and more likely telling the truth or what he thinks is the truth [19:49] <nympheart> would Lucius associate with a younger student and a half-blood? [19:49] <Whisperwing> Like what's his name, Nigel, was it? [19:50] <Aislinn> wow - I really disagree with that statement future [19:50] <AlchemistApprentice> hmmm atschpe then are you saying that Snape was alomost a peter to the DE gang?? the tagalong? [19:50] <jade_and_diamond_fire> maybe if he was as talented and promising and influencable as snape [19:50] <Whisperwing> Gee, I think I said that too. [19:50] <atschpe> In a way perhaps. [19:50] <Expelliarmas> Lupin would speak up with anything he disagreed--he was no weak character [19:50] <fawkes28> or maybe lucius used snape [19:50] <chocolate89> i thinks its a definite possibility he was the tag a long [19:50] <Whisperwing> There's a grain of truth to that, I believe he knew a lot of curses coming in to Hogwarts, I don't know if a 'gang' is the smae thing as having friends, he was probably a 'part' of that gang the way Peter was 'part' of the Marauders. [19:50] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i agree, fawkes [19:50] <Whisperwing> yup, about five posts ago I said that [19:50] <Gryffinclaw> Lupin doesn't say anything against Sirius though [19:51] <Pellinore> Snape is shown to be to much of a loner to be more then a fringe person in a gang imho [19:51] <atschpe> Snape might have tried to find friends and these elder students allowed him room – though at the price of doing something for them [19:51] <jade_and_diamond_fire> why would he, Gryffinclaw? [19:51] <Aislinn> I agree expie - while he may not have stopped his friends as a kid, he was open in admitting things in OotP [19:51] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i agree, Pellinore [19:51] <Expelliarmas> I agree WW, Snape was a loner from the first--he didn't seem the life of any party [19:51] <Hedwigger7> bye nij! [19:51] *** Hedwigger7 has quit [Bye] [19:51] <Gryffinclaw> he admitted it the first time Harry stuch his head in UB's fire [19:51] <Whisperwing> He did say he thought Dumbledore had made him prefect in the hopes he would prevent some of the hijinks Sirius and James got up to, an occasion to which he confessed he failed to rise. [19:51] <atschpe> But I think he quickly learnt that he wasn't treated as an equal andd resumed being a loner. [19:51] <Aislinn> Why do you think that Snape became a Death Eater? [19:52] <Expelliarmas> If Snape was "attached" to the junior DEs, it's because that's where he wanted to be [19:52] *** freyja has joined #lounge [19:52] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it was to prove himself [19:52] <fawkes28> the desire to belong [19:52] <Gryffinclaw> Because he is evil [19:52] <chocolate89> i agree expelliarmus [19:52] <jade_and_diamond_fire> hi freyja! [19:52] *** Hedwigger7 has joined #lounge [19:52] <futureweasley> glory mixed with insecurity [19:52] <fawkes28> hi freyja [19:52] <Expelliarmas> For power [19:52] <DumbleDebbie> I'll go back to the self-loathing [19:52] <Poet> Everyone seemed to be joining sides [19:52] <futureweasley> hi freyja [19:52] <DumbleDebbie> hi freyja [19:52] <AlchemistApprentice> for "family" feeling- belonging and some more training in the dark arts [19:52] <Punky> I agree, he wanted to belong, and maybe it was an outlet as well [19:52] <Hedwigger7> Am I really here? [19:52] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome freyja [19:52] <Aislinn> I think he agreed with some of the principles they espoused [19:52] <Pellinore> belonging and proving himself both sound like good possibilities [19:52] <fawkes28> he wanted to feel part of a family [19:52] <freyja> can't stay too long at all, so i think i may just lurk (famous last words) [19:52] <fawkes28> yes, hedwigger [19:52] <DumbleDebbie> wb Hedwigg [19:52] <Hedwigger7> Yea! [19:52] <Expelliarmas> also, he could use the dark arts openly with the DEs--I mean sectumsempra, what kind of kid comes up with a spell like that?!? [19:52] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i think it was something like bullied children turn out to be bullies thing, to get out his anger [19:53] <Hedwigger7> Darn Snuffles (right Ais?) [19:53] <Whisperwing> I proposed a theory not too long ago, that perhaps VOldemort was responsible for Eileen Prince's death, and so Severus chose to work his way into VOldemort's confidence so that he could find and use the information needed to bring him down. [19:53] <Gryffinclaw> I'm not sure how you can call the DE's a family [19:53] <Poet> As a Slytherin, I think he would have been asked to join and maybe seen no reason not to [19:53] <atschpe> I could see Voldy's ranks offering him to be on the side of the greater team … at scholl he faced the Marauders alone with the DE he would have "back up" [19:53] <AlchemistApprentice> true expel and that again points to his talent [19:53] <chocolate89> thats what "gangs" call themselves [19:53] <Aislinn> all snuffles fault hed [19:53] <chocolate89> a family [19:53] <Hedwigger7> Expie -- a kid who is sick and tired of being picked on... and who fears weakness... [19:53] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that Snape spent a lot of years as the outcast and this was his chance to be part of a group and to prove that he was worth something [19:53] <An_Eternal_Night> he was young, stupid, and was interested in the dark arts [19:53] <atschpe> I think Voldy knows to use the peoples weaknesses and wishes to recruit them [19:53] <futureweasley> Snape became a DE for the same reason people join churches or gangs...for a sense of belonging, and that they are working toward something they believe in [19:53] <SoonerGryffindor> good point Hed [19:53] <DumbleDebbie> he was playing to his strengths [19:53] <fawkes28> exactly, hedwigger, that is what pushes some people over the edge [19:53] <Poet> Great point An_Eternal_Night [19:53] <Expelliarmas> I've never said Snape had no talent [19:53] <Hedwigger7> Yes Sooner. [19:53] <Aislinn> right, future [19:53] <harryfreak359> yes good point [19:53] <Whisperwing> Was he a Death Eater right out of school though, or was it years later? [19:53] <AlchemistApprentice> well De as family is sense of belonging not that they all baked apple pies and tucked each other in at tnight [19:54] <freyja> would have had to be right after [19:54] <Poet> Right away, I agree. [19:54] <chocolate89> lol [19:54] <Whisperwing> James and Lily didn't have Harry with a year or two of graduation after all. [19:54] <Gryffinclaw> I think within his first year out of school [19:54] <SoonerGryffindor> well, W, it had to be pretty quick [19:54] <freyja> *slaps hand* due to the ages of LIly and James [19:54] <DumbleDebbie> LOL Al [19:54] <Expelliarmas> He did it to be on the side of power, so he could be one of the guys in charge and set the agenda [19:54] <futureweasley> not so much "family", but like-minded individuals [19:54] <Aislinn> I think it was right out of school [19:54] <SoonerGryffindor> at least we can all agree on that laugh [19:54] <Gryffinclaw> agreed future [19:54] <Aislinn> and I think he saw it as a place to shine, and to pursue his fascination in the dark arts [19:54] <Whisperwing> There's a queston I'd like to have Jo answer, actually. [19:55] <Hedwigger7> Ais! We agree! [19:55] <AlchemistApprentice> nicely put Aislinn [19:55] *** nympheart has quit [Bye] [19:55] <fawkes28> i agree, aislinn [19:55] <freyja> the DEs offered him admiration [19:55] <Gryffinclaw> Definately Aislinn - To show his evillness off [19:55] <Expelliarmas> I also think he was deliberately recruited to join [19:55] <Aislinn> savor it, hed [19:55] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i agree, Aislinn [19:55] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [19:55] <Aislinn> biggrin [19:55] <freyja> people who could appreciate and reward his darker skills [19:55] * fawkes28 thinks the sky is falling [19:55] <chocolate89> i dont see snape as this bullied child [19:55] <Pellinore> Wonder if Snape and Regulus were friends or hung out together... getting someone's younger brother killed can really piss a person off [19:55] <DumbleDebbie> wb nymph [19:55] <Hedwigger7> (lol) [19:55] <nympheart> thanks [19:55] <chocolate89> i see him as more of the bully [19:55] *** Belenzie has quit [Bye] [19:55] <Hedwigger7> wb nympth stuck too? Snuffles is after us... [19:56] * Snuffles munches on a yummy treat [19:56] <nympheart> well, Sirius and Remus said it went both ways [19:56] <Hedwigger7> Why not choc? [19:56] <Whisperwing> He was naturally talented at the Dark Arts and there's not a whole lot of call for that kind of ability in normal wizarding society, is there? [19:56] <nympheart> yeah, this happens about twice a chat [19:56] <Expelliarmas> I see him as a bully as well--the bulllying comes to the forefront when he becomes, of all things, a teacher [19:56] <DumbleDebbie> LOL FW [19:56] <Poet> Voldemort was amassing cohorts and was at the height of his power about the time of James and Lily and Snape's exit from Hogwarts - leaving school can be hard, being a part of a group can be great for making friends and connections [19:56] <chocolate89> well true he had a troubled child hood [19:56] <Whisperwing> Except maybe as a curse breaker like Bill, but then that wouldn't appeal to Severus, would it? [19:56] <chocolate89> and james and sirius were cruel [19:56] <Aislinn> the death eaters are certainly a bullying organization, yes expie [19:56] <chocolate89> but what we've seen of him [19:56] <chocolate89> hes been a bully to everyone else [19:56] <Hedwigger7> Bullies are essentially weak, powerless people though, aen't they? [19:56] <futureweasley> maybe he joined the DE's because it was the exact opposite of what the Marauders were doing [19:56] <Expelliarmas> Except, Poet, I don't think Snape cared for having friends. He'd want recognition. [19:56] <chocolate89> harry and co [19:57] <chocolate89> wormtail [19:57] <chocolate89> sirius [19:57] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i agree, chocolate89, trying to kill Snape is definitely over the edge [19:57] <Expelliarmas> not the same thing as having a friend [19:57] <fawkes28> i also think that snape wanted to stay as far away from james as possible and he knew james would never join the DE's [19:57] <Gryffinclaw> Apart from Wormtail future [19:57] <freyja> sounds like a big parallel to voldy expie [19:57] <Whisperwing> Is there a way to make h im fetch? Like botgame or something? [19:57] <chocolate89> exactly [19:57] <chocolate89> i think [19:57] <Hedwigger7> Recognition is not the same as friends... [19:57] <Expelliarmas> in fact, none of the DEs seem to be close to each other; they all vie for being his favorite, but they are not friends [19:57] <chocolate89> luscious and co paid attention to him [19:57] <chocolate89> because they respected him [19:57] <nympheart> but does Snape know that, hedwigger? [19:57] <AlchemistApprentice> ok all time to tuck in to bed the youngest of my family [19:57] <Aislinn> Snape frequently criticizes Harry for breaking rules. Why do rules seem so important to a character who would choose to turn his back on established society to become a Death Eater? [19:57] <AlchemistApprentice> see ya [19:57] <chocolate89> he possibly knew more than they did [19:57] <Expelliarmas> bye Al [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> bye Al [19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> I have so many theories on this [19:58] <fawkes28> bye Al [19:58] *** AlchemistApprentice has quit [Bye] [19:58] <Hedwigger7> Tah! [19:58] <chocolate89> snape critizes harry because hes like his father [19:58] <Gryffinclaw> Rules aren't important to Snape. Getting Harry expelled id [19:58] <nympheart> the ones that don't really matter to people with ethics [19:58] <Whisperwing> Death Eater have even more rigid of a rule structure than normal society. [19:58] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i agree, expie, the DE's are more a competition, because they know that Voldie could get angry and knock someone off at any moment [19:58] <Poet> Even the DE have rules - what every Voldemort says are the rules.... [19:58] <Gryffinclaw> *IS* [19:58] <DumbleDebbie> I'm sure you do Sooner, have at it! smile [19:58] <harryfreak359> I think he does it most to criticize harry [19:58] <Hedwigger7> He doesn't want friends nymph, just acknoweldgement and praise. [19:58] <futureweasley> this is one area in which I think Snape and Sirius are very similar...they are both highly hypocritical [19:58] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, its just the grudge [19:58] <fawkes28> harry does get away with many things and snape cannot deal with this [19:58] <Punky> I think it's more learning to be disciplined rather than following particular rules [19:58] <Expelliarmas> Rules are a way of controlling folks, when Harry break rules--he defies standard controls. Maybe Snape wished he had the nerve to do that when he was a kid. [19:58] <SoonerGryffindor> I actually think that Snape and Harry are so much alike, and this is one of those things [19:58] <nympheart> yes, but Snape sees it as a substitute [19:58] <Whisperwing> There's really no such thing as a plea bargain for Death Eaters. [19:58] *** Whisperwing has quit [Bye] [19:58] <Hedwigger7> Gryff *control* is important to Snape, rules represent control, order. [19:59] <Hedwigger7> Authority. [19:59] <jade_and_diamond_fire> plus i think he realizes that rulebreaking often puts harry in dangerous situations, so he's sort of still facing the life debt [19:59] <atschpe> If you still believe him to live by DE code: I think they have very strict rules when serving Voldy and Snape has always been very correcrt [19:59] <Poet> Also, breaking the rules can get you hurt [19:59] <Aislinn> alike, sooner? [19:59] <Aislinn> Harry is not big on rules at all [19:59] *** Whisperwing has joined #lounge [19:59] <SoonerGryffindor> they are a lot alike Ann [19:59] <Aislinn> and Snape seems obsessed with them [19:59] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, voldie wouldn't have mercy for rulebreakers [19:59] <DumbleDebbie> wb Whisper [19:59] <SoonerGryffindor> really neither is Snape when you look at it [19:59] <Pellinore> DD may have said Snape needed to stay on the straight and narrow to avoid Wizard Court again so knowing DD wanted him to adhere to rules made him over play the part [19:59] <fawkes28> yes, aislinn, which makes snape livid [19:59] <atschpe> However, if he is really helping Harry – they are there to keep him safe which is top priority. [19:59] <Expelliarmas> Harry will follow rules when they make sense; not simply to be a puppet [19:59] <fawkes28> it's like snape has obsessive compulsive disorder with rules [19:59] <Aislinn> well, I don't see that as Snape's role in the least atschpe [19:59] <SoonerGryffindor> Snape, like Harry, uses whatever tools are available to him [19:59] <Whisperwing> There's breaking the rules, and then there's twisting them to suit your purposes. [20:00] <Gryffinclaw> Harry does abide by rules most of the time but saving the wizarding world several times is hard to do without breaking a few of them [20:00] <freyja> snape twists plenty of rules for his purposes [20:00] <jade_and_diamond_fire> good point, WW [20:00] <chocolate89> definitely frey [20:00] <Expelliarmas> Snape uses rules as a tool to control [20:00] <Poet> If you're a DE, breaking the rules gets you tortured. If you're a student, breaking the rules could get you eaten by a giant dog or a injured by a bubbling potion..... [20:00] *** weirdsis has joined #lounge [20:00] <Whisperwing> Exactly, which is why Harry's inelegant approach so aggravates him. [20:00] <Aislinn> right gryff - his observation of rules is not for the sake of the rules themselves, but the principles behind them [20:00] <futureweasley> hi weirdsis [20:00] <DumbleDebbie> hi weirdsis [20:00] <SoonerGryffindor> I like that point Poet [20:00] <Aislinn> Harry I mean [20:00] <Gryffinclaw> Hi weirdsis [20:00] <Poet> Chemistry is a very exacting science - potions goes right along with Snapes obsession with rules [20:00] <jade_and_diamond_fire> of course, some rule breaking is ingenious and some is nightmarish [20:00] <Expelliarmas> Snape twists rules into pretzels when it suits him--docking points indiscriminately? [20:00] <SoonerGryffindor> welcome weirdsis [20:01] <Hedwigger7> Yes Poet, its a trait. [20:01] <Gryffinclaw> True Expie [20:01] <weirdsis> Hi, jumping into the fray [20:01] <freyja> perhaps that is why snape reacts so negatively to Harry's breaking of rules [20:01] <fawkes28> well because snape has no power when it comes to voldemort's rules so he needs to feel his has some power in his life over the students [20:01] <freyja> he does it himself and it throws up some smoke [20:01] <Expelliarmas> And yet, Poet, Snape took an entire potions book as a kid and turned it on his head--don't think he was following the potion-making rules at that time [20:01] <Poet> I like that fawkes28 [20:01] <Hedwigger7> Yes Fawkes! Exactly!! [20:01] <atschpe> Also in a subject like potions where the slightest mistake in the recipie can be fatal it is fitting that there is such a strictness [20:02] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes, snape definitely has his power trips once in a while [20:02] <Poet> No Expelliarmas - the potions books rules weren't good enough - he made them better [20:02] <Expelliarmas> and yet atschpe, he didn't follow the recipes exactly when he was a kid [20:02] <Gryffinclaw> Yet, like Expie said, Snape changed the rules when he was a kid [20:02] <SoonerGryffindor> Snape altering all of the recepies is a perfect example of his rule breaking, but in a positive way [20:02] <Hedwigger7> He likes control -- it gives him power and being exacting also demonstrates coolness and intellect. [20:02] <fawkes28> who came blame snape for wanting some control in his life? [20:02] <atschpe> I mean look at Neville's accidents … who knows what might happen if he was left to brew alone … [20:02] <Aislinn> that's not rule breaking [20:02] <futureweasley> are you serious fawkes? [20:02] <Expelliarmas> but he didn't follow the rules, did he? He didn't let himself be constrained [20:02] <Aislinn> it's experimentation with a potion [20:02] <jade_and_diamond_fire> oh dear, lol, atschpe [20:02] <fawkes28> yup [20:02] <Poet> Snape almost made more rules for his potion book, in a way [20:02] <atschpe> I believe that this correctness also rubs of on general life. [20:02] <Gryffinclaw> Yeah but it could kill Aislinn [20:03] <Whisperwing> That was more of the elegant bending of the rules, finding ways to make things happen with more efficiency. [20:03] <SoonerGryffindor> but he broke the rules. Messing with magical herbs would hav been dangerous [20:03] <Poet> interesting [20:03] <Hedwigger7> Ais, Harry experimented too and look what nearly happened to Draco... [20:03] <Aislinn> I don't see ingredients and directions as rules [20:03] <Expelliarmas> Neville's accidents are that--accidents. Maybe if Snape wasn't hovering like a giant bat terrifying the kid, he'd do fine [20:03] <Aislinn> is it breaking rules to change a recipe? [20:03] <freyja> you could get into the whole, was tobias snape a controlling man that made his son feel helpless, so now snape perpetuates that [20:03] <weirdsis> Isn't it about ego with him, too? I can write a better potions book, I was a better wizard than James or Harry Potter [20:03] <atschpe> Hmmm … a recipe isn't a set of rules though. [20:03] <Expelliarmas> Yes, Hed, he used one of Snape's spells on Draco. [20:03] <Pellinore> neville did fine during the exam with a different teacher [20:03] <Whisperwing> I'm sure if he had his way, and the respect he craves, he could revolutionize potion making with his methods. [20:03] <Aislinn> neither is a potion book [20:03] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, it is pretty dangerous stuff, there are cases when the rules cannot be broken [20:03] <SoonerGryffindor> not in the strictest sense of the term Aislinn, but he experimented and found his own way [20:03] <Gryffinclaw> No, but he breaks the rules of the method, which are safe [20:03] *** nympheart has quit [Bye] [20:03] <freyja> uses rules, when they suit, and bends them, when they don't, to make his subordinates feel helpless? [20:03] *** cbm has joined #lounge [20:03] <Hedwigger7> Its pushing the boundaries, if it isn't strictly "rule breaking." [20:04] *** nympheart has joined #lounge [20:04] <fawkes28> hi cbm [20:04] <Whisperwing> He never wrote down his failures though. [20:04] <Hedwigger7> Nymph! back again. [20:04] <cbm> hi [20:04] <Aislinn> that's a good way of putting it freyja [20:04] <futureweasley> cbm...my fav Snapebasher in the forum! [20:04] <Gryffinclaw> Hi cbm [20:04] <Hedwigger7> How do we know that Whisper? [20:04] <Expelliarmas> yes, freyja, good point [20:04] <cbm> Who Me? smile [20:04] *** DumbleDebbie has quit [Bye] [20:04] * nympheart hates computers [20:04] <Poet> And by telling others what to do, he does feel more powerful - just like Voldemort - another reason the DE may have at first appealed to him [20:04] *** dana-lynn has joined #lounge [20:04] <Whisperwing> Nothing Harry tried out of that book was anything but superior [20:04] <Pellinore> you could also look at it that Snape is Following the Laws of Potion making to make better potions then the recipes he has suggest.... like learning to cook then improving on food knowing how ingredients interact [20:05] <nympheart> Snape crossed out the failed spells, but he did write them [20:05] <chocolate89> snape always knows exactly whats hes doing [20:05] *** chocolate89 has quit [Bye] [20:05] <fawkes28> yes, poet [20:05] *** gingin77 has joined #lounge [20:05] <Expelliarmas> funny that Snape never passed on his personal knowledge to the students he taught--like he was hoarding [20:05] <Hedwigger7> Yes Poet. [20:05] <nympheart> levicorpus took effort [20:05] <Hedwigger7> Snape is a mess. [20:05] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:05] <atschpe> I think he did Expie [20:05] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he did Ex[ie [20:05] <atschpe> At least his revised potions recipies. [20:05] <nympheart> I think Snape liked keeping it to himself [20:05] <Poet> Good point Expelliarmus - another way he shows his desire for control [20:05] <Pellinore> no proof either way [20:05] <gingin77> Ello all.... whats the snape topic right now [20:05] <Whisperwing> He wants a worthy succesor to his secrets, like it was done in 'olden times'. [20:05] <nympheart> he wanted to feel superior [20:05] <cbm> Very true, his book made potions easy, like he was trying to make his students worse [20:05] <freyja> again, i think he particularly likes to see helplessness...not just control....I wonder if that could fit in with the unbreakable vow scene somehow? [20:06] <Expelliarmas> I don't think so, guys, the students followed the recipes as written in the books [20:06] <futureweasley> I don't think Snape passed on knowledge in a meaningful or useful way...I actually think he is a dreadful teacher [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> no. Snape always wrote them on the board [20:06] *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge [20:06] <An_Eternal_Night> actually... he always wrote them on the board [20:06] <cbm> But Snape's book had modifications that made them better [20:06] <Expelliarmas> or fearful, FW [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> true Sooner [20:06] <Pellinore> no doubt about that FW ;) [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> hi CD [20:06] <atschpe> Hermione always did well as long as she had Snape's recipies straight from the blackboard – however, working from the book she had mediocre results. [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> hey carpe [20:06] <Whisperwing> Hermione never failed to perform successfully in Potions class [20:06] <fawkes28> ok, i will have to agree with you, future....he is not a good teacher in the classroom [20:06] <jade_and_diamond_fire> hey carpe [20:06] *** chocolate89 has joined #lounge [20:06] <CarpeDiem> Evening all! smile [20:06] <harryfreak359> hi carpe [20:06] <SoonerGryffindor> right atschpe [20:06] <DumbleDebbie> wb chocolate [20:06] <chocolate89> hey carpe! [20:06] <fawkes28> hi carpe [20:06] <nympheart> wb chocolate [20:06] <Whisperwing> Evening, Carpe [20:07] <chocolate89> thanks [20:07] <Aislinn> What do you think Snape's patronus is and why? [20:07] <An_Eternal_Night> but also, why wasn't every potion Harry made as wonderful as when he made them with the Prince's help? [20:07] <Poet> He modified the NEWT level ones, but we don't know if he ever modified any year 1-5 potions [20:07] <Whisperwing> Snape's patronus? [20:07] <nympheart> a spider [20:07] <Hedwigger7> Good point atschpe [20:07] <Expelliarmas> Wrote them on the board--but no variations from the book--Hermione would have told us differently (she would have objected to knowledge which didn't come from a book) [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> a bat? [20:07] <nympheart> he protects himself with a web of lies [20:07] <freyja> sigh...good question but I already need to duck out [20:07] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i like the spider theory [20:07] <Gryffinclaw> LV [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> a chameleon? [20:07] <Pellinore> one of those 3 headed snakes :P [20:07] <Whisperwing> Oh it would be something no one would expect. [20:07] *** dana-lynn has quit [Bye] [20:07] <Poet> A spider or a bat for sure [20:07] <cbm> Does he have a happy enough memory to make one? [20:07] <Hedwigger7> A fox... [20:07] <freyja> i like the three headed snake idea [20:07] <weirdsis> A bat, yes. [20:07] <Punky> I like that nymph [20:07] <atschpe> There si no potions book though while he teaches – only a book on ingreidients. [20:07] <Poet> Nice one nympheart [20:07] <weirdsis> He swoops. [20:07] <DumbleDebbie> yeah, that's what I said in our reading gruopPellinore, Roonspoor [20:07] <Gryffinclaw> Excellent point cbm [20:07] <harryfreak359> Hmmm...hard question [20:07] <nympheart> it doesn't have to be a memory cbm [20:07] <gingin77> i like the fox idea hedwigger [20:07] <Expelliarmas> certanily not a dog [20:07] <Whisperwing> Of course he does, he is in the Order and they communicate with their Patroni [20:07] <chocolate89> im sure he does [20:07] *** freyja has quit [Bye] [20:07] <jade_and_diamond_fire> has anyone else heard the theory that the sphinx's riddle is really about snape, that's my main reason for thinking his patronus is a spider [20:07] <SoonerGryffindor> I think his patronus will represent something from DD [20:07] <chocolate89> just not something we would consider very happy [20:07] <An_Eternal_Night> the 3 headed snakes are "runespoores" [20:08] <nympheart> yeah, i heard that one jade [20:08] <cbm> Has he ever been happy? [20:08] <Hedwigger7> Thanks ging! [20:08] <Pellinore> ah where's that post DDebbie? smile [20:08] <nympheart> it just has to be a thought, not a memory [20:08] <atschpe> Yeah, Sooner – [20:08] <chocolate89> i havent jade.... [20:08] <chocolate89> whats that about? [20:08] <atschpe> As it seems to be so telling [20:08] <gingin77> his happy thought is probably harry getting expelled [20:08] <SoonerGryffindor> it has to be something that tells us the reader something, but that Harry and the OotP wont "get" [20:08] <DumbleDebbie> one of the reading groups I think. I'd have to go look Pellinore [20:08] <Poet> Snape is a spider at heart, excellent point jade_and_diamond_fire [20:08] <cbm> But I would think it would be some type of snape, if he made one. [20:08] <atschpe> forgot how it' [20:08] <fawkes28> like a fawkes, sooner? [20:08] <Whisperwing> His happy thought could be surpassing VOldemort as the most feared and respected wizard in the world... [20:08] <nympheart> the idea is Snape is actually the answer to the riddle if I recall [20:08] <atschpe> – how it's called [20:08] <Pellinore> i can search on runespoor, i'll find it smile [20:08] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe, fawkes, but not quite [20:09] <Expelliarmas> hmmm, can't picture Snape as something noble like a phoenix [20:09] <DumbleDebbie> ok, pell (if I spelled it right LOL) [20:09] <chocolate89> why would it be snape/ [20:09] <chocolate89> ? [20:09] <Expelliarmas> perhaps a worm [20:09] <jade_and_diamond_fire> it was on mugglecast, basically they were analyzing how snape could be represented by each line, and how snape could be one of the important links in harry achieving his final goal [20:09] <fawkes28> i agree that his patronus will should how he is on the good side [20:09] <Whisperwing> But if Snape were the answer, then the Sphinx would have eaten Harry when he said spider. [20:09] <Aislinn> me either expie! [20:09] <fawkes28> a worm? really now [20:09] <futureweasley> wouldn't it be odd if Snapes patronus was Prongs, too? After all, James saved Snape's life...and we know that patronuses change after tramautic experiences [20:09] <gingin77> Someone find the wording for the riddle.. or do i have to get my book out [20:09] <cbm> Worm is real good!! [20:09] <Aislinn> it would be odd, and highly unlikely FW [20:09] <Hedwigger7> Worm moves to slowly Ex to deliver anything to anyone... [20:09] <atschpe> Welll, a patronus is that what you'd want to come and help you … i.e. a symbol of the person or thing you trsut most. [20:09] *** weirdsis has quit [Bye] [20:09] <jade_and_diamond_fire> not that snape was the answer, but that jo is representing snape through the riddle, some type of foreshadowing [20:09] <Whisperwing> Maybe a condor.... [20:10] <Pellinore> a Fly ;p [20:10] <Aislinn> they are not all representative of people [20:10] <Aislinn> Cho had a swan, Ron a dog [20:10] * nympheart wishes she could say what she means [20:10] <Pellinore> jack russel terrier [20:10] <Hedwigger7> That's why a spider doesn't work for me, too obvious. A bat maybe, but I'll stick with my fox... [20:10] <Hedwigger7> LOL Pell... (all the terriers begin yapping in protest) [20:10] <An_Eternal_Night> it might be a raven, that seems right to me [20:10] <jade_and_diamond_fire> fox is an interesing idea [20:10] <An_Eternal_Night> or a crow [20:10] <Whisperwing> FLying fox, the giant fruit bat [20:10] * harryfreak359 has no idea at all [20:10] <jade_and_diamond_fire> good idea, AEN [20:10] <Hedwigger7> lol Whisper... [20:10] <Expelliarmas> how about a sea bass [20:11] <chocolate89> LOL [20:11] <nympheart> lol expie [20:11] <Expelliarmas> or a slimy slug [20:11] <jade_and_diamond_fire> lol, expie [20:11] <harryfreak359> sea bass? LOL [20:11] <futureweasley> yes Expie...you've done it! [20:11] <Expelliarmas> that would fit [20:11] <Pellinore> maybe one of those birds that lay's its egg in another bird's nest and the young pushes all of the other young out of the nest :P [20:11] <atschpe> Hmmm … but the swan might well symbolise Cedric … [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> LOL [20:11] * fawkes28 gets out the 2 x 4 [20:11] <Poet> Not a sea bass, his hair would be washed [20:11] <CarpeDiem> lol Poet [20:11] <Whisperwing> I still think it could be a condor, especially after the vulture-hatted Snape boggart [20:11] <cbm> A snail [20:11] <nympheart> an eel? [20:11] <Gryffinclaw> lol poet [20:11] <DumbleDebbie> sea bass in olive oil wink [20:11] <jade_and_diamond_fire> good point, poet [20:11] <Expelliarmas> a turkey buzzard? [20:11] <Whisperwing> edible Patroni? [20:11] <An_Eternal_Night> brb [20:11] <Expelliarmas> it's got a hooked nose, you know [20:11] <chocolate89> turkey buzzard? [20:11] <Gryffinclaw> lol [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> lol Expie [20:12] <jade_and_diamond_fire> ok, this is getting a bit ridiculous... [20:12] *** NYBookworm has joined #lounge [20:12] <Pellinore> hehe, turkey buzzard.. those things are huge [20:12] <Hedwigger7> Ok, next topic? [20:12] <NYBookworm> hi [20:12] <Whisperwing> And what do you think a condor is, Expie? [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> hi NYBookworm [20:12] <gingin77> heres the riddle... "First think of the person who lives in disguise, Who deals in secrets and tells naught but lies. Next, tell me what's always the last thing to mend, The middle of middle and the end of the end? And finally give me the sound often heard, During teh search for a hard-to-find word. Now string them together and answer this, Which creature woudl you be unwilling to kiss?" [20:12] <chocolate89> lets hedwig [20:12] <SoonerGryffindor> I had to go get Fantastic Beasts, but Augury is the animal I am thinking for his patronus [20:12] <Aislinn> What do you think Snape's boggart is and why [20:12] <Expelliarmas> Better looking than a turkey buzzard, WW [20:12] <atschpe> Me too, Sooner. [20:12] <nympheart> this one's harder [20:12] <chocolate89> i could never gues [20:12] <atschpe> Thanks for the name. [20:12] <futureweasley> Snape's Bogart is Snape [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> that's a bird type thing right Sooner? [20:12] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry dead [20:12] <Expelliarmas> Anything which would expose his treachery [20:12] <SoonerGryffindor> yes Debbie [20:12] <gingin77> snapes bogart is Neville in front of a bogart [20:12] <jade_and_diamond_fire> it could be a number of things, because he has so much trama in his past [20:12] <fawkes28> that is interesting, future [20:12] <harryfreak359> I think it is Dumbledore not trusting him [20:12] <nympheart> lonliness? [20:12] <chocolate89> definitely not sooner [20:12] <DumbleDebbie> oooo, interesting [20:12] <Hedwigger7> Lily dying... [20:12] <Poet> It all boils down to whether you think he's evil or not, that's why we haven't seen it? [20:12] <SoonerGryffindor> its the IRish hoenix [20:13] <cbm> Him needing courage and failing [20:13] <Expelliarmas> not death [20:13] <Hedwigger7> ... and Harry living... [20:13] <Aislinn> that is interesting FW [20:13] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i'm leaning towards lily dying [20:13] <chocolate89> i agree with it might be himself [20:13] <DumbleDebbie> neat! Sooner (phoenix) [20:13] <Whisperwing> His boggart is probably a werewolf, why else would he have made such a dedicated effort into making a perfect wolfsbane potion? [20:13] <CarpeDiem> James Potter? [20:13] <SoonerGryffindor> I really do think that dead Harry is his boggart [20:13] <jade_and_diamond_fire> but i don't know if that would change since she's dead [20:13] <futureweasley> oh good grief...Snape will dance around Harry's dead body...there is no way his Boggart would be Harry dying [20:13] <Hedwigger7> Yea, cbm, unable to prevent Lily from dying... [20:13] <Pellinore> a giant Belt whipping his but every time he casts a dark spell [20:13] <harryfreak359> I really think it is DD [20:13] <chocolate89> i think snape extremely self centered [20:13] <Expelliarmas> I think a living Harry Potter [20:13] <atschpe> Voldy - or DD if you believe him evil – uncovering him as a traitor [20:13] <gingin77> sooner... i suggest you explain yourself [20:13] <jade_and_diamond_fire> you really think so, future? [20:13] <Pellinore> or a pair of dirty undies coming to get'm ;o [20:13] <fawkes28> i completely agree with you, sooner [20:13] <Aislinn> LOL fw [20:13] <nympheart> I think Snape is afraid of being alone [20:13] <DumbleDebbie> oo, that's good, getting caught [20:13] *** Poet has quit [Bye] [20:13] <SoonerGryffindor> well, if Harry dies, then LV cannot be defeated [20:13] <Whisperwing> Bellatrix coming on to him. [20:14] <Gryffinclaw> lol [20:14] <Pellinore> hehe [20:14] <SoonerGryffindor> that is why I think it is his boggart [20:14] <DumbleDebbie> eww WWw [20:14] <gingin77> ha whisper [20:14] <Aislinn> I don't think that Snape believes that sooner [20:14] <jade_and_diamond_fire> strange, WW [20:14] <harryfreak359> I think that he's afraid of Dumbeledore not trusting him..because that is what really got him the life he had at hogwart's [20:14] <Expelliarmas> I don't think Snape knows the full prophecy, Sooner [20:14] <gingin77> sooner.. there is just too much dislike between the two for that to be his bogart [20:14] <chocolate89> what you think he fears voldemort? [20:14] <futureweasley> that suggests, Sooner, that Snapes REAL fear is LV [20:14] <Aislinn> true future [20:14] <harryfreak359> I think so Expie [20:14] <Gryffinclaw> Himself producing a sea bass patronus [20:14] <SoonerGryffindor> I really do think that Snape finally realizes that Harry is the only way to defeat LV. [20:14] <futureweasley> Harry is just the means to the end [20:14] <Aislinn> we have seen no evidence of that sooner [20:14] <chocolate89> i dont think snape wishes to defeat voldemort [20:15] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i don't think snape works as a character if he's afraid of voldie, dumbledore; yes, but not voldie [20:15] <Whisperwing> The old saying about keepign your enemies closer? Exactly why he's gotten himself in so tight with Voldemort [20:15] <Aislinn> he still refers to him as wholly average [20:15] <Hedwigger7> HIs real fear is being a coawrd isnt it? [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> I can see that as a possiblity Sooner [20:15] <Hedwigger7> sorry "coward" [20:15] <fawkes28> yes, but it is just a cover, aislinn [20:15] <jade_and_diamond_fire> great point, Hedwigger [20:15] <DumbleDebbie> good point Hedwigg [20:15] <Pellinore> snape's worst fear is a babbling potion combined with veritaserum ;p [20:15] <cbm> But I am not in any way convinced the Snape wants LV to lose [20:15] <chocolate89> lol [20:15] <chocolate89> im not convinced either way [20:15] <futureweasley> well, Aislinn...that's what Harry "sees"...so that's what we see. Who really knows what's going on in Snape's head about Harry [20:15] <Whisperwing> Snape's Boggart is... losing his Occlumency skill! [20:15] <Aislinn> it certainly touched a nerve, didn't it hed? [20:15] <gingin77> exactly what future said.. remember the harry filter [20:16] <fawkes28> exactly future [20:16] <SoonerGryffindor> I still think that Snape finally figures out at the end of OotP that Harry is the key [20:16] <atschpe> Well, if Voldy wins he has a life service under that man ahead of him - I doubt he#d chose that. [20:16] <nympheart> whisper, that actually isn't that absurd [20:16] <Whisperwing> Or it's been reversed and absolutely everyone can see his innermost thoughts [20:16] <Aislinn> no, future that's we hear ourselves out of Snape's mouth [20:16] <Aislinn> and see in his face [20:16] <Hedwigger7> Yep. So he's been there already and whatever moment that was -- is his boggart. [20:16] <futureweasley> mouth and mind are separate entities, Aislinn [20:16] <nympheart> if everyone knew what he was really doing...whatever it is...it wouldn't end well for him [20:16] <Aislinn> it's not harry recollecting it later, it's us viewing it through his eyes in the current time [20:16] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, his occlumency is the skill to which he owes so much of his other power [20:17] <Whisperwing> It's like Hermione's boggart being bad grades from McGonagall.... [20:17] <cbm> But Snape is a spy for somebody, so you can trust nothing that comes out of his mouth [20:17] <Pellinore> boggart could be seeing his mother dead..... if LV arranged to have her killed and didn't know the connection it would explain Snape being hell bent on getting LV killed. [20:17] <Aislinn> that puts way too much emphasis on a harry filter, which makes every single thing in all fo the books suspect, which I just don't buy [20:17] <fawkes28> well, snape will never truly like harry but he does want to protect him [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> but I think Hermione's would be different now [20:17] <chocolate89> exactly cbm!!!! [20:17] <Expelliarmas> a cauldron ful of shampoo, crest white strips, and periwinkle robes [20:17] *** Expelliarmas has quit [Bye] [20:17] <jade_and_diamond_fire> sorry again about the lateness, but have we already talked about Lily? if were going to later, i don't want to jump the gun.. [20:17] <nympheart> so do I sooner [20:17] <gingin77> the harry filter is always in suspect [20:17] <gingin77> isnt it [20:17] *** Expelliarmas has joined #lounge [20:17] <fawkes28> yes, it is gingin [20:17] <DumbleDebbie> LOL running away Expie? wink [20:17] *** MrMcGonagall has quit [Bye] [20:17] <SoonerGryffindor> we have already touched on Lily jade, but if it relates to this question..... [20:18] <jade_and_diamond_fire> thanx, sooner [20:18] <Whisperwing> Not exactly, we did talk about who it is that loved Snape where VOldemort never has been [20:18] <Gryffinclaw> Snapes Boggart might be himself [20:18] <Hedwigger7> Ya, we haven't really discussed her directly. [20:18] <chocolate89> i highly agree gryffinclaw [20:18] *** Expelliarmas has quit [Bye] [20:18] <Hedwigger7> DDeb, you sacred Expie away... [20:18] <SoonerGryffindor> you might have a point there as well Gryffindlaw [20:19] <Gryffinclaw> Afraid of what he has and can/could do [20:19] <chocolate89> exactly [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> he veryu well could be afraid of himself [20:19] <Pellinore> doh.. Expe going down for the count... someone through'm a life line ;o [20:19] <chocolate89> hes so self centered [20:19] <Hedwigger7> Afraid of failing... [20:19] <chocolate89> that the only thing he thinks about is himself [20:19] <CarpeDiem> Perhaps a crowd pointing and laughing? Is he afraid of humiliation? [20:19] <Hedwigger7> He already had that... [20:19] <DumbleDebbie> wasn't me Hedwigg, Sooner must be brandishing the 2x4 again ;) [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> but that has already hapened carpe [20:19] <gingin77> i like his "fear" of being called a coward [20:19] <nympheart> loneliness? [20:19] <Hedwigger7> Yes, Snufs is at it...wrong side though ;) [20:19] <Gryffinclaw> No, he's been through oit too many times to make him fear it [20:19] <chocolate89> i doubt it would bother him in the preesent carpe [20:19] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [20:20] <atschpe> Being a spy he's his lonely already. [20:20] <Hedwigger7> He's living (self imposed) lonliness all the time. [20:20] <NYBookworm> I think it would be something showing him in a vulnerable position (like those naked in front of classmates dreams- of course that already happened to him) [20:20] <nympheart> I'm not sure if that's his worst fear though gingin [20:20] <Punky> that was part of his worst memory though [20:20] <Aislinn> Why, in your opinion, has Snape singled out Neville almost as much as Harry over the years for his verbal abuse? [20:20] *** MrMcGonagall has joined #lounge [20:20] <Hedwigger7> Everyone is Periwinkle today! [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> wb Mr M [20:20] <chocolate89> there you are punks! [20:20] <MrMcGonagall> Sorry, got interrupted. [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> bully [20:20] <Hedwigger7> Because he's so vulnerable and that lets Snape bully... [20:20] <Whisperwing> Because he sees something of himself in Neville that he despises, the misfit [20:20] <gingin77> because Neville already has a low self esteem and is easyer to pick on and get a reaction from [20:20] <harryfreak359> wb MrMcG [20:20] <SoonerGryffindor> I think it has something to do with the prophecy [20:20] <chocolate89> and just because it was is worst memoery [20:20] <cbm> Because he is a bully, sad for someone that old [20:20] <nympheart> I think it's because Snape twisted the prophecy and knows neville could have been the chosen one [20:20] <DumbleDebbie> picking on the weakest in the herd [20:20] <Gryffinclaw> Because Neville is a bit of a duffer and the phrophcy [20:20] <chocolate89> doesnst mean he was afraid of it [20:20] <gingin77> Plus what sooner said [20:20] <Hedwigger7> Plus maybe he'd rather Neville's folks died than Lily -- and even James. [20:21] <nympheart> and projects his failure on neville and harry [20:21] <Punky> I wonder if he picks on people who he sees himself in [20:21] <chocolate89> its possible punks [20:21] <MrMcGonagall> I think he sees Neville as a talentless lump. [20:21] <SoonerGryffindor> I think he also does see some of himself in Neville, and I really think he hates himself to a certain extent [20:21] <chocolate89> not all of them [20:21] <chocolate89> but some [20:21] <Whisperwing> Of course, that's what bullies do, jump on the thing in other people they're most afraid of seeing in themselves [20:21] <cbm> I think all of the DEs are bullys, look at what they did at the Quidditch world cup, snape fits right in [20:21] <atschpe> He overheard only the first part of hte prophecy so either could be the victim to him. He might take them on that toughly to prepare them for their ultimate fate. [20:21] <Pellinore> either its due to Neville reacting poorly to being bullied which encourages bullies or a loathing that LV didn't go after neville 1st. [20:21] <CarpeDiem> I think Neville is as easy target for Snape as Harry is. Neville is not very skilled - it's easy to make him an example. Being able to put down harry is just a personal vendetta. [20:21] <MrMcGonagall> Oooh, interesting thought, Sooner. [20:21] <Whisperwing> i.e., <censored> bashers [20:21] <Hedwigger7> I think so Punky. [20:21] <Aislinn> he was brilliant at potions - why would he see himself in Neville? [20:21] *** KneazleKayla has joined #lounge [20:21] <CarpeDiem> Punky, I like that idea as well [20:21] <fawkes28> i also think perhaps he was trying to "toughen" neville up [20:21] <SoonerGryffindor> not the potions skill, but other things [20:21] <DumbleDebbie> hi Kneazle [20:22] <fawkes28> but it didnt work so well [20:22] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree fawkes [20:22] <chocolate89> why fawkes? [20:22] <Punky> The rough childhood [20:22] <Aislinn> I think he is the worst kind of bully, ready to pick on the weakest person around [20:22] <Hedwigger7> Yes Sooner. [20:22] *** Pleshette has joined #lounge [20:22] <chocolate89> whyever would he want to help neville? [20:22] <MrMcGonagall> Hmm, I don't know. I think Snape just enjoys mocking Neville. [20:22] <fawkes28> same with harry to prepare them for voldemort [20:22] <nympheart> hi pleshette [20:22] <Gryffinclaw> Definately Aislinn [20:22] <cbm> Teachers bullying a student is sadistic [20:22] <DumbleDebbie> hi Pleshette! [20:22] <fawkes28> hi pleshette [20:22] <atschpe> HI Pelshette [20:22] <Aislinn> hey pleshette [20:22] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, i would've had a nervous breakdown if i were snape, although i'm not sure he didn't at some point [20:22] <gingin77> ello [20:22] <fawkes28> yes but it is tough love [20:22] <CarpeDiem> I've also wondered if Snape's teaching style involves embarassment. Perhaps that's how he learned best? [20:22] * Pleshette is so afraid to take part in this Snape chat [20:22] <chocolate89> why would he love nveille? [20:23] <SoonerGryffindor> Snape is mean and petty, but he always seems to have a reason for it. I just cant see Snape wasting his time, unless there were an imp[ortant reason [20:23] <Hedwigger7> Interesting CD [20:23] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think the way Snape does it is tough love. [20:23] <fawkes28> just jump right in smile [20:23] <Pleshette> Hi everyone! [20:23] <CarpeDiem> Hi Pleshette [20:23] <nympheart> he projects the frustration of his failures on Neville [20:23] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think Snape is trying to bring out the best in Neville. [20:23] <Aislinn> me either Mr M [20:23] <atschpe> I think he is mostly an autodidact and thus doesn [20:23] <Aislinn> there is nothing loving about it [20:23] <Pellinore> an odd thought.. wonder if Snape figured out the Prophocy and took DD over to Neville's place to protect Neville then they realised he had gone over to harry and now wants to make sure no DE figure out snape was trying to protect neville [20:23] <Whisperwing> Neville reminds him of his own misfit childhood and as he wants to quash all memories of that, he wants to crush Neville out of his sight. it would take five years, until after the O.W.L.s, but he did succeed at that. [20:23] <Hedwigger7> Yes nymph, exactly. Fear of weakness or failure. [20:23] <An_Eternal_Night> gotta go everyone! great chat! [20:23] <Pleshette> I agree Mr. McG [20:23] *** An_Eternal_Night has quit [Bye] [20:23] <CarpeDiem> See ya AEN [20:23] <cbm> But snape does not see himself as a failure [20:23] <DumbleDebbie> bye AEN [20:23] <nympheart> I don't think it's a coinsidence that Neville could have been the Chosen One [20:23] <atschpe> … doesn't understand people having problems with a subject or not working by themselves – hence the the restlessness. [20:24] <harryfreak359> I think he's kind of stumbling over the chair with neville...in a way...He is stumbling over Neville's unability to do potions and is taking it out on him. It isn't Neville's fault, but he can't help but torture him anyways...like when you stumble over a chair in the dark and curse it...it's not the chair's fault but you do anyways.. [20:24] <Hedwigger7> Bye! AEN! [20:24] <harryfreak359> I dunno... [20:24] <MrMcGonagall> Snape seems to consider all of his students as utter dolts. [20:24] <Pleshette> If only he approached Neville like Lupin did [20:24] <gingin77> neither do i nympheart [20:24] *** Whisperwing left #lounge [] [20:24] <fawkes28> i think snape wants neville to be good at potions and is pushing him [20:24] <nympheart> I think Snape didn't tell LV the prophecy verbatim and made it sound like it was certainly Harry [20:24] <Gryffinclaw> It's a good thought HF [20:24] <Pleshette> He would have more of an impact on Neville [20:24] <CarpeDiem> Pleshette, that's not Snape's style at all though. [20:24] <atschpe> I agree fakwes [20:25] <gingin77> Snape thinks highly of his own talents and those who do not meet his expectations are therefore inferior and he mocks them [20:25] <jade_and_diamond_fire> snape's only human, can't really blame him for getting frustrated with neville... [20:25] <Pleshette> Oh, I know CD, but how does he think he will help Neville by humiliating him? [20:25] <MrMcGonagall> I disagree, fawkes. [20:25] <Pellinore> neville could also remind Snape of how he had told LV about the prophocy and Snape feel guilty about what happened to neville's parents [20:25] <Hedwigger7> YEs ging, exactly [20:25] <SoonerGryffindor> I think Snape's self-hatred, along with issues with his involvement with the prophecy are at the root of a lot of it [20:25] <MrMcGonagall> Snape is condescending and patronizing to his students from the day he first swept like a bat into the Potions class. [20:25] <Pellinore> snape then reacting poorly to his guilt by taking it out on Neville [20:25] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i don't really think snape is responsible for what happened to neville's parents, at least not directly [20:25] <atschpe> He tries to make them think "I'll show him that I am not a dunderhead" [20:26] <Pleshette> Snape is brilliant at Potions but clueless when it comes to teaching [20:26] <Aislinn> Do you think that Snape is an effective teacher? Why or why not? [20:26] <Gryffinclaw> gingin - what about Hermione? he mocks her and she is a genius [20:26] <atschpe> Unfortunately, not everyone responds well to such treatment. [20:26] <DumbleDebbie> nope [20:26] <nympheart> only for some students [20:26] <MrMcGonagall> horrible teacher, though he does know what he's talking about. [20:26] <CarpeDiem> My thought was perhaps that's how Snape learned best, so he emulated that style. He teaches by using fear. You know your potions or you are made example of. [20:26] <Pleshette> oops sorry Ais, I jumped the gun [20:26] <harryfreak359> yes, definitely [20:26] <Gryffinclaw> Agreed with nymph [20:26] <cbm> Snape is a horrible and sadistic teacher with no redeeming social value when it comes to any of his non slytherin students [20:26] <fawkes28> i think snape is an effective teacher to some degree [20:26] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i think he affectively teaches lots of things, but not neccessarily potions [20:26] <SoonerGryffindor> Harry sure did learn a lot from theat book, didnt he? [20:26] <Pellinore> only effective to those he leaves alone. also don't buy that he teaches them w |
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Nov 8 2006, 10:11 PM
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She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner |
[20:26] <Pellinore> only effective to those he leaves alone. also don't buy that he teaches them what he's learned just what the book's show.
[20:26] <MrMcGonagall> Snape didn't intend to teach with that book. [20:26] <chocolate89> me neither mr m [20:26] *** chocolate89 has quit [Bye] [20:26] <nympheart> Snape knows his stuff, but not how to handle students [20:26] <fawkes28> i do not prefer his methods in the class because i would never treat students the way he does [20:26] <harryfreak359> I think that it really depends on the student though [20:26] <Aislinn> I don't think he is effective, because he doesn't make any attempt to modify his approach to his student's needs [20:26] <gingin77> Snape is a horrible teacher in the classroom but when he writes instructions in a book he is effective [20:26] <Pleshette> From the book yes, but not from Snape's putdowns in class [20:27] <cbm> But Harry was NEVER supposed to see the book [20:27] <Aislinn> that's ok pleshette smile [20:27] <DumbleDebbie> yes Sooner, so he an effective teacher if the students are in a separate room and a separate point in time [20:27] <atschpe> Well, the trst results seem very good – and his students are up to a very high standard as we see through Umbridge's inspetction [20:27] <Gryffinclaw> exactly cbm [20:27] <jade_and_diamond_fire> glad to hear that fawkes [20:27] <fawkes28> but it is notin his nature to be comforting [20:27] <fawkes28> smile [20:27] <harryfreak359> Some students do better with the kind caring teacher...others do better with teachers that are harder.. [20:27] <MrMcGonagall> There weren't that many who made it into NEWT potions. [20:27] <Aislinn> part of being an effective teacher is figuring out what will help your students learn [20:27] <nympheart> it worked for Hermione and students who can handle him, but not Neville [20:27] <NYBookworm> I think he's an expert at the area he teaches but that doesn't make him an excellent teacher [20:27] <Aislinn> and modifying your approach accordingly [20:27] <Hedwigger7> I think he's effectual when he ahs to be ("SHut your mouth and close your mind") [20:27] <cbm> A teacher is someone who can effectively pass on knowledge, we know from the book that Snape does not do this [20:27] <Pleshette> He shows favoritism with Slytherins though which is unprofessional [20:27] *** chocolate89 has joined #lounge [20:27] <jade_and_diamond_fire> exactly, the best teachers know when to be kind and when to be harsh [20:28] <SoonerGryffindor> whether or not Snape intended Harry to see the book (I think he did) Harry learned quite a bit [20:28] <MrMcGonagall> Have we seen any example of a student who actually loves the subject of Potions because Snape inspired them? [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> wb chocolate [20:28] <CarpeDiem> Agreed Aislinn, the great teachers are those that can bend and change their style to reach as much of their class as possible. I would imagine a ravenclaw class would be different to teach than a Slytherin class. [20:28] <Hedwigger7> wb choc [20:28] <gingin77> he needs to learn moderation [20:28] <Pellinore> there is a difference between a "hard" teacher and an abusive one [20:28] <Aislinn> no Mr M [20:28] <Pleshette> True Pellinore [20:28] <atschpe> He's most effective to those who want to wrok on their own or who react to his taunts by wanting to prove him wrong [20:28] <Aislinn> exactly carpe [20:28] <nympheart> right pellinore, and Snape crosses the line [20:28] <Aislinn> and he is an abusive one, yes pell [20:28] <NYBookworm> He would always be allowed to continue teaching 9unless there was abig incident) real workd because he sets and gets kids to meet the testing standards [20:28] <SoonerGryffindor> Hermione did very well because she wanted to please hiim and not get on his bad side [20:28] <cbm> How would Snape know that Harry was going to be digging in a cabinet, I think the book was a mistake [20:28] *** harrypotterfan123 has joined #lounge [20:28] <Pleshette> He's feared but is he respected by the students? [20:28] <harrypotterfan123> hey guys! [20:28] <nympheart> hi hpfan [20:28] <DumbleDebbie> hi harrypotterfan [20:29] <chocolate89> thanks [20:29] <chocolate89> this thing doesnt like me very much [20:29] <Pleshette> Hi hpfan [20:29] <CarpeDiem> MrM - Very good point. I can't think of one example. Even the Slytherines don't seem to show exception to him. [20:29] <MrMcGonagall> He's definitely feared, Pleshette. [20:29] <harrypotterfan123> what's up? [20:29] <gingin77> he is feared... which in a sence could mean respect [20:29] <harryfreak359> hi hpfan [20:29] <SoonerGryffindor> hey hpfan [20:29] <Hedwigger7> Sunffles has a mean bite... [20:29] <gingin77> or be seen as respect in some eyes [20:29] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i think he would have to be a little nicer to garner the respect he deserves [20:29] <chocolate89> i think snape is only there for his personal reasons [20:29] <nympheart> fear isn't the same thing as respect though [20:29] <harrypotterfan123> i agree gingin77 [20:29] <Pleshette> Not necessarily [20:29] <chocolate89> and not to teach [20:29] <harrypotterfan123> it can be [20:29] <nympheart> though it appears to be to those who are deluded [20:29] <harrypotterfan123> i don't think he's respected, more like haetd [20:29] <Pleshette> McGonagall is tough but respected, Snape not so much [20:29] <CarpeDiem> I don't think Snape ever wanted to be a teacher, he seems to enjoy being feared more than teaching. [20:30] <Hedwigger7> Because he's so bullying and cruel. [20:30] <nympheart> kind of like LV [20:30] <harrypotterfan123> yeah i agree [20:30] <chocolate89> exactly carpe [20:30] <Hedwigger7> Me to CD [20:30] <Gryffinclaw> Excellent example Pleshette [20:30] <chocolate89> hes only there because he as to be [20:30] <MrMcGonagall> You know, he seems rather different when teaching DADA. [20:30] <gingin77> Snape was forced into his position as a Potions instructer.. he always 'wanted' DADA [20:30] *** TeawithVoldie has joined #lounge [20:30] <Punky> So then why is he teaching? [20:30] *** WitByondMeasure has joined #lounge [20:30] <Aislinn> in what way Mr M? [20:30] <DumbleDebbie> hi teawithvoldie [20:30] <chocolate89> its all part of his act [20:30] <TeawithVoldie> hey [20:30] <fawkes28> snape doesnt care what people think though so he does what he thinks is best [20:30] <DumbleDebbie> hi WBM [20:30] <Pellinore> fear of going to azkaban [20:30] <harrypotterfan123> dada is his actuall subject, he likes dada more [20:30] <cbm> So he does not go to Azkaban [20:30] <chocolate89> whichever side he is on [20:30] <nympheart> everyone knew he was a DE, DD was one of the few who would give him a job [20:30] <TeawithVoldie> true [20:30] <SoonerGryffindor> he seemed like Harry when he was teaching DADA. Is that what you meant, Mr M? [20:30] <chocolate89> he needs to be teaching to cover his tracks [20:30] <MrMcGonagall> He actually seems to love his subject in DADA. [20:31] <atschpe> Mr M – they are older though if you compare his DADA classes with the potions classes … [20:31] <CarpeDiem> I think it was requested of him, Punky. By one of the sides - perhaps both. [20:31] <TeawithVoldie> Doesn't he say that [20:31] <chocolate89> yeah that to carpe [20:31] <gingin77> i did catch that connection Sooner.... Snape DADA was like Harry's DA [20:31] <TeawithVoldie> in Prince [20:31] <MrMcGonagall> Maybe the early potions classes, atschpe. [20:31] <futureweasley> I agree CD [20:31] <atschpe> That's what I meant. [20:31] <TeawithVoldie> I've never chatted on here before and it is confusing [20:31] <SoonerGryffindor> exactly gingin [20:31] <KneazleKayla> I think it seems strange that Snape would want the DADA position when he knows no DADA teacher is there longer than a year. [20:31] <harrypotterfan123> teawithvoldie [20:31] <harrypotterfan123> i agrree [20:31] <chocolate89> well [20:31] <cbm> Not really, everyone made quick progress in Harry's DA, progress was slower in Snape's DADA [20:32] <TeawithVoldie> I thought the same, KK [20:32] <MrMcGonagall> that is odd, Kneazle. [20:32] <atschpe> With the DADA Harry has already a subject he lieks – would it have been so if he had Snape all those years in that subject? [20:32] <Hedwigger7> Well, if DADA is what he's always wanted, even a year is better than nothing... [20:32] <harrypotterfan123> this is like my third chat [20:32] <gingin77> and that is why i think that Snape and harry clash so strongly.. they are too alike to get along [20:32] <SoonerGryffindor> we dont know thatcbm [20:32] <SoonerGryffindor> there is no canon to back that up [20:32] <Aislinn> Did Snape really think that he owed James a life debt, and was that really what he was doing in the first book when he saved Harry's life? Attempting to repay the debt? [20:32] <chocolate89> depending on wich side hes on [20:32] <Punky> Maybe that's why he wanted it kneasle [20:32] <Gryffinclaw> Snape is looking for a way to break away from DD, killing him worked well [20:32] <chocolate89> i doubt it aislinn [20:32] <DumbleDebbie> I don't think so [20:32] <harrypotterfan123> oh hey punky [20:32] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i think maybe, with his knowledge of current events he wanted to leave Hogwarts and that was a convient excuse, DD might've planned it [20:32] <Hedwigger7> Its a good red herring Ais. [20:32] <Gryffinclaw> Paying off life debt [20:32] <harrypotterfan123> i g2g [20:32] <gingin77> i have said this a thousand times that Snape did not save harry in teh frist book... hermione did [20:32] <SoonerGryffindor> interesting if so, because that would mean that he has some ethics there [20:32] <fawkes28> yes, i think he was trying to save haryr because of it [20:32] *** harrypotterfan123 has quit [Bye] [20:32] <nympheart> i think he believed he owed the debt, but was very wishy-washy as to repaying it [20:32] <cbm> I think that Hermione actually saved Harry's life and the debt is still owed [20:32] <Pellinore> dunno.. jkr has put hints of snape being both good and bad.. hard to tell which part is the lie [20:33] <MrMcGonagall> that may have had a little something to do with it, but I think there's much more to it. [20:33] <atschpe> Somehow I think a lifedebt can't be fully repayed – [20:33] <gingin77> thank you cbm [20:33] <nympheart> he was sort of like, "I tried, debt repaid" [20:33] <futureweasley> lifedebts don't carry on to spawn of the owed [20:33] <cbm> But I do think he was trying to save Harry's life though [20:33] <TeawithVoldie> I think he is playing both sides [20:33] <TeawithVoldie> I don't htink he is on either [20:33] <DumbleDebbie> he may have been trying to save Harry, but it's not clear why [20:33] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that Snape used that as an excuse [20:33] <TeawithVoldie> he is doing whatever keeps him alive [20:33] <chocolate89> exactly tea [20:33] <CarpeDiem> I don't see Snape as the type to pay off a life debt. It was probably more of an excuse than anything. [20:33] <Aislinn> I agree debbie [20:33] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i think snape has horrible guilt about Lily's death and he's trying to cope without seeming too soft on harry [20:33] <chocolate89> preach it carpe [20:33] <fawkes28> because he does care, sooner [20:33] <Aislinn> he could have had a lot of reasons for it at that point [20:34] <Hedwigger7> YEs j&d [20:34] <atschpe> Yeah, it was the easiest way for DD to explain Snape's actions to Harry without directly lying yet keeping facts hidden. [20:34] <CarpeDiem> brb [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> he cares about Harry's fate yes.... about Harry as a person..... no [20:34] *** CarpeDiem has quit [Bye] [20:34] *** harrypotterfan123 has joined #lounge [20:34] <cbm> According to what He said at Spinner's end, he was trying to figure out if Harry is the next Dark Lord, but I think it was the life debt [20:34] <harrypotterfan123> see yah guys [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> bye hp fan [20:34] <Gryffinclaw> bye [20:34] <chocolate89> by hpf [20:34] <Hedwigger7> bye hpf... [20:34] <harrypotterfan123> going to barnes and nobles! YAY! [20:34] <atschpe> bye hp [20:34] <nympheart> have fun! [20:34] <Pleshette> Well, he claims that he wasn't sure if Harry might be able to be persuaded to join the Dark Side [20:34] <chocolate89> oh have fun! [20:34] <TeawithVoldie> wish I had a barnes and noble here [20:34] <gingin77> hahah... harry next dark lord.. you got to be kidding me.. i laughed at that comment it was so fake [20:34] <harrypotterfan123> i love b&n *sigh* [20:34] <Aislinn> Snape never misses out on a chance to remind Harry what a bullying and obnoxious git his father was, yet oddly has never so much as even mentioned Lily's name. Is this significant? [20:34] <Pleshette> Right cbm, you said it first [20:34] <harryfreak359> bye hpfan [20:34] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that was a lie Pleshette [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> I feell like the life debt repaying isn't something that is conscious on the part of the payer [20:35] <Hedwigger7> YESSS!!! [20:35] <nympheart> yes [20:35] *** harrypotterfan123 left #lounge [] [20:35] <TeawithVoldie> Aislinn, yes it is [20:35] <MrMcGonagall> Very significant!!! [20:35] <nympheart> he liked her [20:35] <Pleshette> I'm not so sure Sooner [20:35] <gingin77> Yes.. because he didnt mind lily as much [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> I think so too [20:35] <harryfreak359> I think it is [20:35] <atschpe> Very Significant [20:35] <Gryffinclaw> Well he at least liked lily [20:35] <TeawithVoldie> I think they dated [20:35] <Hedwigger7> Crucial. [20:35] * DumbleDebbie sites back to watch the ships lumber by [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> well, we dont know that for sure [20:35] <Pellinore> lily was liked by all the boys *wink* [20:35] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i definitely think he was in love with her and can't stand that she's dead [20:35] <Hedwigger7> lol DD! [20:35] *** WitByondMeasure has quit [Bye] [20:35] <cbm> He was never bullied by Lily [20:35] <SoonerGryffindor> lol Debbie [20:35] <DumbleDebbie> *sits [20:35] <MrMcGonagall> I think Snape is wracked with guilt over Lily's death. [20:35] <TeawithVoldie> I think he called her a mudblood because she broke up with him and he was pissed [20:35] <gingin77> haha debbie.... [20:35] <atschpe> I agree Mr M [20:35] <Pleshette> I think so too MrMG [20:35] <harryfreak359> lol Debbie [20:35] <Gryffinclaw> Low Battery got to dash guys [20:35] <nympheart> I think Lily was supposed to be Snape's prize and that's why she was offered the chance to live [20:36] <cbm> He was so in love he called her a Mudblod [20:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree Mr M, but there is no way ever on this planet that Lily ever dated him [20:36] <gingin77> I cannot and will not ever see lily being any way attracted to snape [20:36] <Gryffinclaw> Snape to die and is EVIL [20:36] <jade_and_diamond_fire> i agree Tea with Voldie [20:36] <TeawithVoldie> oooo, good theory, cbm [20:36] <NYBookworm> maybe part of the reason was Jealous of James was because of Lily and he still ahsn't gotten past that [20:36] <SoonerGryffindor> maybe in an alternate universe....... [20:36] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Sooner. The feelings were not mutual. [20:36] <nympheart> yes, NYBookworm [20:36] <Pleshette> No, and I don't necessarily think he was in love with her either [20:36] <Hedwigger7> Really Gryff, such parting words... [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> lol Sooner [20:36] *** WitByondMeasure has joined #lounge [20:36] <TeawithVoldie> I am getting a headache from this scrolling text, so I am leaving. Bye bye [20:36] <nympheart> bye [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> wb WBM [20:36] <Aislinn> bye tea [20:36] <Pleshette> Bye Tea! [20:36] <DumbleDebbie> bye Tea [20:36] <jade_and_diamond_fire> bye tea! [20:36] <atschpe> bye [20:36] <SoonerGryffindor> I htink they were platonic friends as kids because I think they grew up together. But that was it [20:36] *** TeawithVoldie has quit [Bye] [20:37] <Pellinore> the worst memory could be guilt over calling lily a mudblood not the dirty skivies [20:37] <SoonerGryffindor> bye tea [20:37] <nympheart> grew up together? [20:37] <nympheart> she was muggleborn [20:37] <Aislinn> that's my impression too sooner [20:37] <jade_and_diamond_fire> interesting thought, sooner! [20:37] <gingin77> sooner is that the same alternate universe were snape is acutaly harry's father [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> interesting Sooner [20:37] <SoonerGryffindor> right, and Snape had a mggle dad [20:37] *** CarpeDiem has joined #lounge [20:37] <atschpe> Yeah, I like that idea Pellinore [20:37] <Pleshette> I think they were friends, she looked beyond the greasy hair [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> wb CD [20:37] *** WitByondMeasure left #lounge [] [20:37] *** Punky has quit [Bye] [20:37] <Hedwigger7> Gotta fly kids. Keep Snape flying guys! Toodles! [20:37] <jade_and_diamond_fire> lol, pleshette [20:37] <SoonerGryffindor> and grew up in an industial , muggle neghborhood [20:37] <nympheart> Eileen struck me as the prejudiced type [20:37] <Pleshette> Bye Hedwigger [20:37] <Aislinn> bye hed! [20:37] <SoonerGryffindor> bye Hed [20:37] <futureweasley> I like the Spinner's End childhood theory [20:37] <nympheart> bye hedwigger [20:37] <MrMcGonagall> They would have been in the same NEWT potions class, though. [20:37] <DumbleDebbie> bye hedwegger [20:37] *** chocolate89 has quit [Bye] [20:37] <Pellinore> SEeing people for who they really are Pleshette? smile [20:37] <atschpe> Bye [20:38] <Aislinn> me too fw [20:38] <Pleshette> heh heh [20:38] *** Punky has joined #lounge [20:38] *** Hedwigger7 left #lounge [] [20:38] <SoonerGryffindor> yes, I think that Lily probably only treated Snape with nothing but respect until that one time..... [20:38] <gingin77> i like the possibility of spinners end childhood as well [20:38] <gingin77> its possible... [20:38] <DumbleDebbie> wb punky [20:38] <Punky> thanks smile [20:38] <nympheart> I don't see Snape playing with who is believed to be a muggle [20:38] <MrMcGonagall> I just don't see enough evidence for a Spinner's End childhood background. [20:38] <SoonerGryffindor> its a much better theory than a ship between those two [20:38] <Pleshette> I think Lily may have unintentially betrayed snape [20:38] <nympheart> I don't think he'd make much effort to hide his powers [20:38] <gingin77> nymph... kids are kids.. they are going to play with other children [20:38] <atschpe> Well, perhaps not in the open. [20:38] <cbm> But after the mudblood comment, I think that there is no way they were friends [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> when did Snape know *he* wasn't a Muggle? [20:39] <CarpeDiem> very good point gingin [20:39] <SoonerGryffindor> and Jo keeps hintng at some kind of connection [20:39] <MrMcGonagall> You don't think Lily was magnanimous enough to overlook a slight if Snape ever extended the branch of friendship? [20:39] <SoonerGryffindor> that is a good question Debbie. I bet it was early on [20:39] <cbm> Where does she hint at a connection? [20:39] <nympheart> probably always, he lived with his mom [20:39] <Pleshette> We see James use levicorpus, one of Snape's curses [20:39] <SoonerGryffindor> Lily being good at potions [20:39] <DumbleDebbie> b/c that would tie in to his attitude as a young kid towards 'muggles' [20:39] <Pellinore> yea from the start since his mother was a witch [20:40] <SoonerGryffindor> "that awful boy" [20:40] <Pleshette> I wonder if Lily shared that curse with James, and he used it against Snape [20:40] <cbm> That was much more than a slight, by what the reactions were the first time Draco uses the word [20:40] <SoonerGryffindor> those are 2 huge hints [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> but she may have hid that Pellinore [20:40] <MrMcGonagall> Snape totally copied Lily's work in the NEWT potions class. [20:40] <cbm> That could also be Peter [20:40] <gingin77> the wonderful "that awful boy" comment [20:40] <MrMcGonagall> Pinch of peppermint? Come on. [20:40] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah "that awful boy" is making me crazy! [20:40] <Pellinore> hehe [20:40] <DumbleDebbie> lol Mr M [20:40] <Pleshette> I can't wait for that to be revealed [20:40] <nympheart> i think Lily was the one who copied [20:41] <SoonerGryffindor> all roads lead to there being more history between Lily and Snape than we are aware of [20:41] <MrMcGonagall> Then why was she the one whom Slughorn thought was so brilliant> [20:41] <nympheart> because she was pretty [20:41] <MrMcGonagall> Agreed, Sooner. [20:41] <atschpe> I think they worked out some of these things together. [20:41] *** chocolate89 has joined #lounge [20:41] <nympheart> and Snape sank into the background [20:41] *** Gryffinclaw has quit [Bye] [20:41] <Aislinn> I think that makes a lot of sense Mr M [20:41] <fawkes28> yes, there is more backstory that i am dying to read [20:41] <CarpeDiem> I can agree with that Sooner. smile [20:41] <Pellinore> more likely that they both had apptitude for potions imho [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> b/c she's cuter Mr M wink [20:41] <Pleshette> I think so to atschpe [20:41] <chocolate89> what question are we on? [20:41] <gingin77> i agree with MrMc.... Lily was brilliant at potions.. i doubt it was because she copied from Snape [20:41] <Aislinn> Snape seems to be for the most part in control of his emotions except for when it comes to Harry. However, we really see him lose it big-time at the end of PoA. What did you think of his behaviors and actions here? [20:41] <DumbleDebbie> wb chocolate [20:41] <MrMcGonagall> Honestly, Debbie, basing everything on looks! smile [20:41] <Aislinn> a new one chocolate smile [20:41] <chocolate89> thanks [20:42] <chocolate89> lol [20:42] <chocolate89> what is it? [20:42] <futureweasley> one word: unhinged [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> I so love this oart [20:42] <nympheart> i think some old wounds were torn open that night [20:42] <Aislinn> just posted [20:42] <cbm> He was trying to get Sirius Kissed nomatter what he had to do [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> *part [20:42] <jade_and_diamond_fire> well, certain people remind him of all these terrible experiences [20:42] <Pleshette> He just lost it completely [20:42] <MrMcGonagall> Agree, nymph [20:42] <jade_and_diamond_fire> and i think he's confused about how to treat Harry [20:42] <gingin77> totaly wanting revenge for a childhood full of pranks from two people he thought were breaking the law [20:42] <MrMcGonagall> Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. [20:42] <Pellinore> he had to have known about the time turner Hermione had... his rection was all an act i think [20:42] <harryfreak359> I think that he is very calm in all sitiuations, but I think that he can lose his temper easily in some circumstances [20:42] <atschpe> Past grudges and actions schemes took over by everyone in the room [20:42] <DumbleDebbie> lol Mr M [20:42] <SoonerGryffindor> I htink he saw his school days repearting themselves. Once again the Mauraders got the best of him [20:43] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Sooner. [20:43] <cbm> Why did he have to know? [20:43] <SoonerGryffindor> and it drove him over the ledge [20:43] <nympheart> and now it was James's son who got away with everything [20:43] <Pleshette> THis was his way to get his revenge [20:43] <chocolate89> again i have opinions for both sides [20:43] <gingin77> i dont think he did know about the time turner.. i thought that was known by mcgonagall and dumbledore only [20:43] <Pellinore> there was a comment about the teachers being told about the time turner [20:43] <Pellinore> afk, looking it up [20:43] *** KneazleKayla has quit [Bye] [20:43] <nympheart> I think some teachers have time turners [20:43] <Aislinn> right pell [20:43] <gingin77> where..pell [20:43] <DumbleDebbie> but DD hit him over the head with a clue about the TT if he was paying attention [20:43] <nympheart> the schedules don't fit [20:43] <chocolate89> hermione did say that in poa [20:44] <CarpeDiem> I think seeing Harry and two of the Marauders opens up some old wounds. I'm sure he knew Sirius was on his way to Howarts and then to have him iun his grasp (and then loose it) was very emotuiner for him. [20:44] *** DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [20:44] <CarpeDiem> Wow...good luck reading that [20:44] <cbm> If he had know about the time turner he would of pointed it out to Fudge [20:44] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [20:44] <SoonerGryffindor> I will say thins though. I think Snape genuinely thought that Sirius got away with murder. Bewtween his school grudge and the lack of justice, he went a little crazy [20:44] *** DumbleDebbie has joined #lounge [20:44] <gingin77> exaclty cbm.... [20:44] *** cbm has joined #lounge [20:44] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Sooner. [20:44] <atschpe> Except for his respect for Dumbledore [20:44] <nympheart> yes, sooner [20:44] <Punky> I agree Sooner [20:44] <chocolate89> i think it depends on how you look at it [20:45] <futureweasley> Only 15 minutes left, everyone! This has been a great chat! I want to remind you all that this transcript can be found at the Corner Booth Forum http://www.leakylounge.com/Corner-Booth-f184.html. Don't forget to vote in the latest poll for the next WWW chat here http://www.leakylounge.com/forums.html#entry998214 [20:45] <gingin77> well... snape already thought Sirius capible of murder remember [20:45] * cbm the time lag was killing me [20:45] * fawkes28 decides to keep mouth closed for this question [20:45] <Pleshette> But he didn't want to hear a word about Peter being alive [20:45] <Pleshette> He was only focused on what he believed to be the truth [20:45] <chocolate89> he could have used that as a cover up [20:45] <chocolate89> or he was truly horrified [20:45] <SoonerGryffindor> he was very much like Harry in that scene. Not wanting to see the truth? [20:45] <nympheart> i think Snape really wanted to play the hero [20:45] <cbm> He was not a rational person that night, was there any evidence that Harry was confunded [20:46] <MrMcGonagall> I think Snape's emotions overrode his usual calm use of reason and logic. [20:46] <atschpe> Can you blame him for that?? [20:46] <gingin77> i think the image of Sirius, Lupin, and Harry made him snap... flashback anyone? [20:46] <Aislinn> right pleshette [20:46] <Aislinn> sure I can blame him atschpe [20:46] <SoonerGryffindor> I agree gin [20:46] <Aislinn> he was ready to turn 2 people over to the dementors [20:46] <CarpeDiem> I agree with that too gin [20:46] <atschpe> He is facingg his childhood enemy who he believes caused the murder of Lily [20:46] <chocolate89> i can blame him to [20:46] * SoonerGryffindor agrees with atschpe [20:46] <Aislinn> and was completely unwilling to listen [20:46] <jade_and_diamond_fire> good point, atschpe [20:46] <chocolate89> im a little shaky on him and the lily thing [20:46] <cbm> but atschpe, childhood is the key word, Snape is now an adult [20:46] <MrMcGonagall> oooh, good thought, atschpe. [20:47] <gingin77> well... he was knocked out half the time [20:47] <Aislinn> exactly cbm [20:47] <nympheart> Snape doesn't act like one though [20:47] <chocolate89> exactly cbm [20:47] <SoonerGryffindor> but he thought that Sirius killed the Potters [20:47] <atschpe> This man would look like he's make a feeble attempt to explain himself away – a man who broke into the castel twice during the yera. [20:47] <nympheart> he carries his childhood with him [20:47] <chocolate89> well at the time [20:47] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes, snape can be quite petulant and childish [20:47] <SoonerGryffindor> he did not like the fact that he was going to get away with that [20:47] <chocolate89> snape was a death eater [20:47] <cbm> But the potter's son said he wanted to listen and he didn't [20:47] <chocolate89> and i think he knew darn well who killled the potters [20:47] <CarpeDiem> I think Harry causes Snape to relive his Hogwarts yeaers every day. He sees both James and Lilly in Harry - it's tormenting for him. [20:47] *** gryffindelle has joined #lounge [20:47] <MrMcGonagall> There never had been any kind of reconciliation between Snape and the Marauders. [20:47] <Aislinn> it wasn't just sirius who was trying to get him to listen, it was everyone in the shack [20:47] <gryffindelle> hi [20:47] <SoonerGryffindor> but Snape has a Harry filter jsut like Harry has a Snape filter [20:47] <gingin77> i dont think he knew that Sirius and Peter switched... i really dont think he knew at all [20:47] <DumbleDebbie> hi gryffindelle [20:47] <Aislinn> but he was so bent on his own revenge that he wouldn't stop and listen to anyone [20:47] <gryffindelle> whats the question? [20:48] <cbm> Harry has a much bigger right to vengence than Snape [20:48] <MrMcGonagall> Snape does always seem to see James in Harry, never Lily. [20:48] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, but those filters don't always work, now do they... [20:48] <Aislinn> Snape seems to be for the most part in control of his emotions except for when it comes to Harry. However, we really see him lose it big-time at the end of PoA. What did you think of his behaviors and actions here? [20:48] <SoonerGryffindor> we are tallking about Snape at the end of PoA right now gryff [20:48] <nympheart> right MrM [20:48] <gryffindelle> thanks [20:48] <Aislinn> that is the question gryff [20:48] <Pleshette> Right Ais, he tells Hrmione to shut up and calls her stupid [20:48] <CarpeDiem> MrM I think it's when he chooses to "save" Harry that he is seeing Lilly and acting on that [20:48] <gingin77> yes again the Harry filter comes into play... we cannot tell what Snape was actualy thinking in that situation and it could be exagerated from the mind of a 13 year old boy [20:48] <DumbleDebbie> how Snape went off his nut! [20:48] <chocolate89> lol [20:48] <MrMcGonagall> I agree, Carpe. I think he feels he owes Lily. [20:48] <Aislinn> right pleshette [20:48] <nympheart> which is interesting considering that Harry has her eyes and eyes are symbolically a window into the soul [20:48] <chocolate89> i disagree [20:49] <Aislinn> it had NOTHING to do with a harry filter [20:49] <fawkes28> i think in PoA it was just the straw that broke the camel's back [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> I jsut think that it is interesting that Snape losees it mostly when Harry or the mauraders are involved, but he is composed otherwise [20:49] <MrMcGonagall> The unworthy son of so noble a mother . . . [20:49] <NYBookworm> he's dealing with the very issues he's never want4eed to deal with his whole life that he thought as an adult he wouldn't have to [20:49] <Aislinn> we could see his actions all by ourselves [20:49] <gingin77> i know ais... someone just brough it up... sarcasm doesnt go over well in a text chat [20:49] <fawkes28> he needed to get it out of him [20:49] <Pleshette> I don't think he thinks he owes Lily [20:49] <cbm> But he would not listen to Harry, the person who should be the one that deserves to have revenge on his parents murderer [20:49] <chocolate89> snape was playing both sides to his abilitly [20:49] <MrMcGonagall> Well, I think he feels guilt over Lily. [20:49] *** TeawithVoldie has joined #lounge [20:49] <Pleshette> I do think he regrets his actions though [20:49] <DumbleDebbie> wb tea [20:49] <atschpe> If you leave out the adjectives yes. [20:49] <futureweasley> *This chat will continue at the in the Study Hall of the Chamber of Chat http://www.chamberofchat.com/chat/enter.asp* [20:49] <gryffindelle> hi tea [20:49] <SoonerGryffindor> wb tea [20:49] <cbm> Harry's thoughts should of come first [20:50] <CarpeDiem> Woot! smile Thanks FW smile [20:50] <Punky> Thanks FW smile [20:50] <Pellinore> well i'm wrong.. only see McGonnagal mentioned for the time turner.. maybe a filk i read or some other place in the book ;p [20:50] <MrMcGonagall> no way was Snape going to respect Harry's opinion in this matter. [20:50] * futureweasley loves the Chamber of Chat...and the great mods!! [20:50] <chocolate89> so does chocolate [20:50] <cbm> I agree MrM, that is why Snape is a git smile [20:50] <Aislinn> In OotP, Snape gives Harry occlumency lessons and gets a glimpse into his childhood. Did seeing into Harry's greatly dysfunctional childhood change anything between the two of them? [20:50] * harryfreak359 loves the CHamber of chat too [20:50] <gryffindelle> nope [20:50] <chocolate89> nope [20:50] <cbm> no [20:50] <gingin77> nope [20:51] <Pellinore> though if snape really wanted to know he could have used occulmency to figure it out [20:51] <chocolate89> just gave him a bit of humore [20:51] <chocolate89> humor* [20:51] <Pleshette> unfortunately no [20:51] <nympheart> I think Harry felt pity for him, and Snape hated Harry more [20:51] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think so. Snape seemed kind of curious, though. [20:51] <atschpe> It might have if Harry ahdn't taken the dive … [20:51] <harryfreak359> I think that Harry realized that he had a bad childhood [20:51] <CarpeDiem> If anything it may have increased the tension. It would be like allowing your enemy to see your weakest moment. [20:51] *** TeawithVoldie has quit [Bye] [20:51] <Aislinn> Harry did feel sympathy for him [20:51] <gingin77> Harry needed to take the dive tho [20:51] <Punky> yes Carpe [20:51] <nympheart> Snape is a very secretive person [20:51] <SoonerGryffindor> I think that Snape realizes Harry was not this pampered prince and that they do have some things nn common [20:51] <atschpe> both sides could see how similar their childhoods have been and were given information to understand the other more. [20:51] <gryffindelle> and i think he hates that, sooner [20:51] <MrMcGonagall> It did give Snape something to think about. [20:52] <chocolate89> not really [20:52] <Pleshette> interesting Sooner and atschpe [20:52] <nympheart> right, but neither of them will admit it [20:52] <harryfreak359> I think that if they weren't so hateful towards each other they might have realized that they were a lot a like [20:52] <chocolate89> harry was hardly concerned at all for snape [20:52] <gingin77> yeah but i think that snape chose to ignore harry's past and keep seeing james in his son [20:52] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yeah, i think snape was upset that his emotional "cover" was blown [20:52] <chocolate89> he was more concerned that his father may have been a git [20:52] <Pellinore> snape may also have been looking for things he could use against harry [20:52] *** gryffindelle has quit [Bye] [20:52] <chocolate89> and all snape did was laught at harry [20:52] <Aislinn> I agree gingin [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> I also think it is very intersting that Snape starts thinking of his own childhood after seeing Harry;s. Almost like in his own mind he is coming to the realization of how similar they are [20:52] <MrMcGonagall> Oooh, good point, Sooner. [20:52] <CarpeDiem> Interesting point Sooner. [20:52] <gingin77> yeah.. that image was pritty forward in Snapes mind [20:52] <SoonerGryffindor> yes. He was refl;ecting Harry [20:53] <DumbleDebbie> free association Occulmency [20:53] <SoonerGryffindor> yes [20:53] <MrMcGonagall> lol, Debbie! [20:53] <chocolate89> lol [20:53] <Pellinore> unless Snape is able to put up false images to give harry a certain impression [20:53] <atschpe> After the pensieve dive he has proof on his hands that Harry doesn't respect privacy anymore than James – at least from his point of view. He never knows Harry's reaction to what he saw. [20:53] <nympheart> I don't think Snape would make that up though [20:53] <MrMcGonagall> I don't think Snape was expecting Harry's resistance. [20:53] <Pellinore> the same way LV put up the images of SIrius being tortured [20:53] <CarpeDiem> I've often wondered if the memory was left there on purpose...similar to DD and his memory of the DE trial? [20:53] <SoonerGryffindor> I dont either nymph [20:53] <gingin77> I think the pensive thing was a set up [20:53] <cbm> But look at what see James did to Harry, did snape leave the memory out on purpose knowing this? [20:54] <Pellinore> certainly setup by JkR ;) [20:54] <gingin77> he knew right well that harry's curiosity would get teh best of him [20:54] <chocolate89> its possible cbm [20:54] <nympheart> Snape's anger about the pensieve seemed genuine to me [20:54] *** gryffindelle has joined #lounge [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> that is a good quesiton Carpe. I think we may have to have a chat all about SWM sometime soon. *hint, hint* [20:54] <Aislinn> Snape turns out to be a pretty good healer when it comes to combating injuries resulting from dark objects or dark magic. He also has made countercurses to some very questionable spells. (Sectrusempra) What does this say about his character? [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> wb gryff [20:54] <CarpeDiem> lol [20:54] <atschpe> But how could Snape know that Montague would turn up exactly during a lesson? [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> lol Sooner [20:54] <gryffindelle> hello again, i got disconnected [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> I htink it is very tellng [20:54] <gingin77> that he dables in the darker part of magic [20:54] <Aislinn> yes, there are many sub-topics of snape that we can hold separate chats on [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> he's talented [20:54] <gryffindelle> swm?? [20:54] <nympheart> that he's very intelligent [20:54] <DumbleDebbie> Snape's Worst Memory gryff [20:54] <SoonerGryffindor> someone truly evil would not care to provide cures for his curses, right? [20:54] <MrMcGonagall> More ambiguities about Snape. Sigh. [20:54] <CarpeDiem> swm = snapes worst memory [20:55] <chocolate89> areed nympheart [20:55] <cbm> He probably got experience healing death eaters in training [20:55] <nympheart> he's also dangerous [20:55] <gryffindelle> thanks [20:55] <DumbleDebbie> he would if he needed the countercurse for himself [20:55] <chocolate89> also agreed [20:55] <atschpe> Agree Sooner. [20:55] <Pellinore> multi-talented.. wouldn't suprise me if Elieen Prince worked at Mungo's [20:55] <Pleshette> lol Mr McG just what we need [20:55] <Aislinn> yes, Mr M - he is the epitome of an enigma [20:55] <SoonerGryffindor> he also seems to know how to combat a lot of evil dark, scary magic [20:55] <jade_and_diamond_fire> yes, potions and healing certainly seem connected [20:55] <harryfreak359> yes I'd say so Sooner [20:55] <CarpeDiem> I think it shows that he's been conflicted all his life. He may have created the curse but at the same time realized the rprecussions of that curse and knew precisely how to heal it. [20:55] <MrMcGonagall> An enigma wrapped in a riddle coated in hair grease. [20:56] <gingin77> snape is an enigma... agreed sooner [20:56] <Aislinn> LOL [20:56] <Pleshette> It shows that he has the potential for good if he so chooses [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> knowing how to combat stuff is a good self-preservation skill [20:56] <gingin77> i ment aislinn [20:56] <Pellinore> yea hard to use a potion for offense..... here drink this ya bugger! [20:56] <gingin77> sorry... [20:56] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL Mr M [20:56] <Aislinn> smile [20:56] <Pleshette> lol Pellinore [20:56] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [20:56] <jade_and_diamond_fire> lol, mr. m [20:56] *** harryfreak359 has joined #lounge [20:56] <Aislinn> Do you think that it is possible to be on the right side without being a nice or an ethical person? [20:56] <DumbleDebbie> wb HF [20:56] <nympheart> yes [20:56] <gingin77> yes [20:57] <atschpe> Sure … [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> yes [20:57] <harryfreak359> Yes definitely [20:57] <nympheart> but I don't think Snape is [20:57] <SoonerGryffindor> yes [20:57] <Pellinore> yes... look at Nixon ;p [20:57] <Pleshette> I don't want to say this, but yes [20:57] <gryffindelle> yes [20:57] <jade_and_diamond_fire> of course [20:57] <gingin77> i think snape is [20:57] <nympheart> i think that description fits Dung better [20:57] <MrMcGonagall> Yes. Crouch used all kinds of unethical means to achieve right ends. Not a good way to go about it, though. [20:57] <SoonerGryffindor> LOL Pellinore [20:57] <chocolate89> definitely [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> that's exactly where I'm thinking Snape is [20:57] <jade_and_diamond_fire> its taken me about a year to accpet it, but i think he is [20:57] <Aislinn> I think Mundungus is a good example of this [20:57] <atschpe> same as Umbridge isn't a DE yet a nasty person. [20:57] <CarpeDiem> I was thinking of Dung too but I think he's more of a tool for the Order than an actual member, isn't he? [20:57] <Aislinn> but I'm not so sure that Snape is [20:57] <harryfreak359> umm yeah [20:57] <DumbleDebbie> true Aislinn, good point [20:57] <gingin77> Mundungus is a good example of this as well [20:57] <chocolate89> grrrr umbridge [20:57] <SoonerGryffindor> Dung is an excellent example [20:57] <harryfreak359> I think Snape is too [20:58] <nympheart> Umbridge still isn't on the right side though [20:58] <jade_and_diamond_fire> there is not line between the light and dark, just a lot of grey space [20:58] <cbm> Yes, but I think in this case it will either be the life debt to James or the second part of the unbreakable vow to Narcissa that cuase Snape to help, not loyalty [20:58] <atschpe> I think Snape is [20:58] <Pleshette> I just can't bring myself to believe that Snape is good [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> lol hf [20:58] <gingin77> no mundungus is a member of the order [20:58] <Aislinn> I'm having a problem with that as well pleshette [20:58] <SoonerGryffindor> but there is a difference between good and on the right side Pleshette [20:58] <MrMcGonagall> I think Snape marches to the beat of his own drummer. [20:58] <gingin77> Umbridge is a crazy coot... she shouldnt be mentioned [20:58] <DumbleDebbie> but Plesh he can be doing things that ultimately help the good side w/o being himself "good" [20:58] <nympheart> me too MrM [20:58] <Aislinn> given the choices of his that we have seen [20:58] <chocolate89> exactly mr m [20:58] <CarpeDiem> I'm there with you Mrr M [20:58] <Aislinn> I do too Mr M [20:58] * fawkes28 starts the group hug [20:59] <nympheart> and it's a very foreboding beat [20:59] <DumbleDebbie> (((((((group))))))) [20:59] <CarpeDiem> No, far too soon for group hug [20:59] * nympheart joins the hug [20:59] * SoonerGryffindor joins in with faweks [20:59] <Pleshette> I know you guys but I'm not convinced yet [20:59] * gryffindelle joins hug [20:59] * harryfreak359 gives everyone a big hug [20:59] <chocolate89> waves [20:59] <gingin77> dont let the person's personality change your mind.. it is what they are working for that matters... i believe snape to be on the right side even though i despise him personaly because he is a horrible man [20:59] <Pleshette> I think he's out for himself [20:59] * atschpe joins in [20:59] * DumbleDebbie starts looking out for the steel toed boots [20:59] <Aislinn> Great chat everyone - we will definitely plan on discussing aspects of old Snivellus again in future chats smile [20:59] <SoonerGryffindor> its good to mnow that so many of us can be divided on this, yet still hug at the end. laugh [20:59] <MrMcGonagall> I can't believe we don't get extra time! [20:59] * nympheart reaches for that ax [20:59] <chocolate89> lol [20:59] <fawkes28> and a big woo hoo for snape being such an awesome character whether you love him or hate him [20:59] * MrMcGonagall weeps inconsolably. [20:59] <harryfreak359> well I've got to get going... [20:59] <jade_and_diamond_fire> bye! [20:59] <gingin77> aww group (((((((huggles))))))) [21:00] * DumbleDebbie thinks Sooner's getting sappy on us [21:00] <CarpeDiem> lol Sooner [21:00] <chocolate89> bye everyone! [21:00] <Pleshette> hear hear fawkes! [21:00] <jade_and_diamond_fire> huggs! [21:00] *** chocolate89 has quit [Bye] [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [21:00] <gingin77> huggles eveyrone byes [21:00] <atschpe> True Sooner. [21:00] <Pellinore> cya (((( smile )))) [21:00] <Pleshette> Bye! Hugs all around! [21:00] <DumbleDebbie> night everyone smile [21:00] <harryfreak359> bye guys, see ya! [21:00] *** gingin77 has quit [Bye] [21:00] <atschpe> Well, my bed is calling! [21:00] <nympheart> bye [21:00] *** Pellinore has quit [Bye] [21:00] <futureweasley> goodnight [21:00] * cbm off to the gym [21:00] *** nympheart left #lounge [] [21:00] <atschpe> See you guys! [21:00] <fawkes28> thanks for coming [21:00] <Aislinn> bye everyone! [21:00] * MrMcGonagall hugs everyone, dabs his eyes and blows his nose. [21:00] <Pleshette> oh, it's late for you atschpe, go to bed [21:00] <cbm> It was fun Bye! [21:00] <harryfreak359> I may try to stop in the CoC chat as well [21:00] <CarpeDiem> Okay, I'm off. Wonderful discussion. Thank you and great job to the CB mods! smile [21:00] <Punky> G'night Guys smile [21:00] *** DumbleDebbie left #lounge [] [21:00] <harryfreak359> bye [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> everyone make sure that you post in your Reading Groups this week [21:00] <SoonerGryffindor> night [21:00] <Pleshette> Good night! [21:01] *** MrMcGonagall left #lounge [] [21:01] *** CarpeDiem has quit [Bye] [21:01] *** Punky left #lounge [] [21:01] <futureweasley> and don't forget about Movie Night!! [21:01] <gryffindelle> bye, see you soon...i hope [21:01] *** harryfreak359 has quit [Bye] [21:01] <atschpe> Yes, Pleshette I will be good and go to bed at once! [21:01] *** gryffindelle left #lounge [] [21:01] *** Pleshette has quit [Bye] [21:01] <atschpe> Do I have to Sooner? [21:01] *** cbm has quit [Bye] [21:01] <fawkes28> yes, sooner [21:01] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [21:01] <SoonerGryffindor> yes you do [21:02] <atschpe> Oh, … alright hten … I'll get started on my summary then *sigh* [21:02] *** jade_and_diamond_fire has quit [Bye] [21:02] <futureweasley> NYBookworm? [21:02] <SoonerGryffindor> lol [21:02] <atschpe> See you round! [21:02] *** atschpe has quit [Bye] [21:02] <fawkes28> bye! [21:03] <SoonerGryffindor> Sharon???? [21:03] <SoonerGryffindor> are you still in here? [21:04] <NYBookworm> sorry distracted [21:04] <NYBookworm> night [21:04] *** NYBookworm left #lounge [] [21:04] <SoonerGryffindor> nite [21:04] <Aislinn> night --------------------  Sig Image by Brian Ross (DatM) and avi by Jeffhpfan |
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