Cultural Q&A, What is a scuppernong, anyway? |
 Jul 30 2008, 08:30 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit  Posts: 2,642 Joined: 10:52pm March 5, 2007    |
To Kill a Mockingbird is set in the 1930's, during the Great Depression in the United States. This period of economic downturn started approximately 1929, and ended with the beginning of WWII in 1939. Mockingbird is sprinkled with references to the culture of the times, and we thought this thread would be nice to ask questions, and allow anyone who has time to research the answer to share what was discovered.
Some questions to start with: * What was the 'Battle of the Hastings'? * What is a Hoover cart? * A short explanation of the WPA * It is said that Lee based her plot on the 'Scottsboro Case'...what are the facts of this prosecution? Feel free to share your research and ask your own questions! By the way, a 'scuppernong' is a type of grape native to the southeastern U.S. They have a thick skin and seeds, and grow in clusters, getting about 1-1 1/2 inches round. They have a sugar content of about 18-25%, I can't tell how sweet that would be, but it doesn't sound very sweet. This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 7 2008, 06:32 AM |
 |
 
 
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 07:55 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 146 Joined: 7:46pm June 22, 2008 Location: Springfield, Mo |
There is a web site that has an explanation of this, the scottsboro trial has its own web site, even. it was a trial of several young black men who were accused (falsely) of rape and convicted with basically no evidence, several of the men were later exonerated (sp).
a scuppernong, i believe is a type of berry. there is a web site that explains all of this designed specifically for to kill a mockingbird, i have it at school, but i can't remember the name of it, i will have to look it up. the wpa was one of the work programs rooselevelt created to get the country out of the depression (Maycomb had recently been told it had nothing to fear...) the battle of hastings was a battle in the revolutionary war (i think...) being a symbol that old roots were very important to Maycomb society and the society of the deep south at the time. i teach this book, by the way -------------------- "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" Mr. Weasley was looking around. He loved everything to do with Muggles.... |
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 08:28 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 679 Joined: 6:46am January 1, 2008 Location: Wishing she was in the Live Lounge |
* What was the 'Battle of the Hastings'?
This is the only one I can answer in great detail, being the history geek that I am. THe Battle of Hastings is the famous battle in 1066 between Harold Good-somthingorother and WIlliam the Conquerer. It was the last ever time that Britain was successfully invaded and William and his french armies from Normandy beat the Brits (actually Saxons) into submission (hence his name... the french don't really go for originality!) But yes, if you had been educated history in any primary school in the British Isles you'd have been taught about that battle about ten times! --------------------   "Harry Potter isn't everything ... but it's right up there with Oxygen! |
|
|
|
|
Aug 9 2008, 09:48 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 200 Joined: 6:20pm May 20, 2007 Location: the Hills of Nowhere |
The Battle of Hastings was between King Harold Godwinson of England, and Duke William (the Conqueror) of Normandy in 1066. Harold had been king only a short while, and he had been crowned under Hailey's comet, which was considered a sign of doom by all who knew of such things. He had pledged to uphold William's right to the throne before King Alfred died, but later reneged on that pledge (the pledge was given while he was a "guest"-read prisoner-of William, and therefore he felt that it was not legally binding or something).
Harold had a turbulent rule, and because he was busy putting down rebellions/invasions, one from his own brother, Tostig, and he and his army were dead tired for the Battle of Hastings, having just marched in from near Scotland, while William and co. were well rested and fed. William also had the advantage of cavalry and the newly developed stirrups, which gave the French a decided advantage over the English infantry. All this is recorded on the Bayeux Tapestry, a very very long tapestry that is housed in... northern France somewhere. After the Battle of Hastings, William took charge, and, during the... restructuring phase of his rule, he had the Domesday Book created, which listed all the transfers of land from the Saxon nobles to the Norman nobles so that he knew who had land and how much, for tax purposes. This is probably where Maycomb's residents traced their ancestors to. All info in post is courtesy of my 12th grade British Lit class, and my amazing teacher, who practically invented the English language. Any inaccuracies are mine, and probably the result of 3 months summer break and lack of sleep. -------------------- You said, "I know that this will hurt,
But if I don't break your heart, things will just get worse. If the burden seems too much to bear, Remember, the end will justify the pain it took to get us there." ~Let It All Out, Relient K |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 02:10 AM
Post
#5
|
|
One Half of the DDD  Posts: 8,957 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere |
Weasleyfan, I'm so glad you're here
 because I have more questions  For instance what are *'druthers*? Its used a couple of times, for instance when Scout is telling Atticus what Mrs Dubose had said to them and he replies "Of course, I'd rather she'd have said it to me than to either of you, but we can't always have our 'druthers". I gather he means that we can't always have what we want but I just wondered what the word actually means, I can't think of a word that's been abbreviated to produce that. When Jem decides to go back to the Radley house and get his pants he waits until Atticus is asleep. When he gets out of bed he says to Scout "Sleep, Little Three-Eyes?" and I'd love to know what that means, is it from a song, a story ...? The Battle of Hastings (1066) is famous in English history (I'm English) as the invasion of Saxon England by the Normans and the defeat of King Harold by William the Conqueror and completely changed the course of our history, having effects that last even until today, but why is it significant in To Kill a Mockingbird? Why did Scout say it was a "source of shame to some members of the family that we had no recorded ancestors on either side of the Battle of Hastings"? I have more but I'll leave it there for now
This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 10 2008, 02:11 AM --------------------  March's Book Nook: The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge/Skellig by David Almond "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 08:05 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Sundae-Nut-Chopper at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 948 Joined: 12:30am December 18, 2006 |
QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Aug 10 2008, 03:10 AM)  For instance what are *'druthers*? Its used a couple of times, for instance when Scout is telling Atticus what Mrs Dubose had said to them and he replies "Of course, I'd rather she'd have said it to me than to either of you, but we can't always have our 'druthers". I gather he means that we can't always have what we want but I just wondered what the word actually means, I can't think of a word that's been abbreviated to produce that.  Dreamteam, let me bring my growing-up-in-Alabama experience to bear on 'druthers and start by saying that you're on the right track! Some people pronounce the word rather as "ruther" (somewhat of a carryover from some of our ancestors' British dialects--not all dialects have this, though)--so 'druthers is a bit of slang to represent the I'd rathers in life, basically your preferences. Your interpretation, then, is spot on!In that line specifically, Atticus uses both "I'd rather" and " 'druthers" (bolded in the quote above), which is one of the many places in TKAM where Lee uses langauge and Atticus' speech to emphasize that though he is educated, cultured, and well-to-do, he is not at all disparaging of what some might consider less sophisticated culture, traditions, and language. He can "code switch" between the "proper" and the slang, in a respectful way, and one that would be meaningful to his children as well as culturally significant amongst his friends, acquaintances, and clients (and readers, too  ).
-------------------- "...the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters" - Sirius Black (OOTP14)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 08:45 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 12 Joined: 8:33am August 10, 2008 Location: Southeast USA |
I too grew up in Alabama, and I've heard 'druthers' used in two different ways. One is simply the running together of 'I'd rather' as in 'I'druther have a Co-Cola'. (Co-Cola is how rural Alabamians pronounced 'Coke-a-Cola'.)
And a scuppernog is a wild grape, specifically of the white-skinned variety. (Muscadines are the purple wild grapes.) Both muscadines and scuppernogs are very nearly spherical, have a thick and slightly rough skin, and rather large seeds. (The skin is slightly bitter as well.) The way most children eat them is to pop the whole thing into your mouth, bite down just enough to break the skin, suck the flesh out, then spit out the seed and skin. There taste is much richer than cultivated grapes, and they seem to be both sweeter and tangier than their domesticated counterparts. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 09:46 AM
Post
#8
|
|
Mischievous Manager  Posts: 5,455 Joined: 9:14am February 16, 2006 Location: Behind the sofa, watching Doctor Who |
Dreamteam, there even used to be a restaurant (fast food) called Druthers, I assume based on this colloquialism. "I'd druther go to Druthers" was one of their slogans. (Insert eye roll here!)
I haven't seen anybody try "Hoover cart" yet. But I can hazard a guess - and a quick google search! I know that Herbert Hoover got a lot of flack from people during the Depression as being largely responsible for it. He was the Republican president right before FDR was elected to the first of his four record terms. People who were homeless would live together in camps that they dubbed "Hoovervilles," often cobbled together with cardboard or wood or whatever they had on hand to offer some kind of nominal shelter against the weather. So my guess was that a Hoover cart might be what they use to carry around what they've got left, after they've lost everything. And my good friends at google tell me I'm close. A website for Hoover's home in Iowa quotes Harry Truman as saying a Hoover cart is "the remains of an old Tin Lizzie pulled by a mule, because you couldn't afford to buy a new car and you couldn't afford to buy gas for the old one." I guess I was picturing a shopping cart like our homeless people today might use, but the Hoover cart was more of an improvised buggy to carry people around after they could no longer afford to keep up their car on its own "steam." An alternate version would see farmers abandon the Tin Lizzie altogether and just put the car's rear tires and axles on an existing cart and hitch it up to the mule that way. There's a lot of debate even today whether Hoover deserved the reputation he got for the blame of the Depression. But it's a reputation that persists. Other presidents who were not well-liked recovered their reputation after they left office, or after their deaths. Hoover, to this day, is more likely to be the butt of a joke. You can learn a lot more about him at the website for his birthplace in Iowa - and maybe decide for yourself if he really deserved the mocking he got at Hoovervilles and with Hoover carts and other similar things that bore his name. I'll admit I'm still not sure what I think -- but I was surprised to learn how much he did both before and after leaving office to try to help people in trouble. --------------------  |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 01:37 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 12 Joined: 8:33am August 10, 2008 Location: Southeast USA |
QUOTE(StepInTime @ Aug 10 2008, 09:05 AM) Atticus uses both "I'd rather" and " 'druthers" (bolded in the quote above), which is one of the many places in TKAM where Lee uses langauge and Atticus' speech to emphasize that though he is educated, cultured, and well-to-do, he is not at all disparaging of what some might consider less sophisticated culture, traditions, and language. He can "code switch" between the "proper" and the slang, in a respectful way, and one that would be meaningful to his children as well as culturally significant amongst his friends, acquaintances, and clients (and readers, too ).One of the things which I took for granted growing up was how people's accents identified them as belonging to a particular social class. There was a genteel accent which marked it's speaker as 'old money' - or at least from a family which once had money, even if they could now claim only 'good breeding' (Kevin Spacey did a very impressive 'old money' accent in Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil). There was another accent which was a sort of imitation of this and it seemed to be only used by social climbers and the 'nouveau riche' - that is, by people who were trying to break into the upper social circles or by those who wished to demonstrate that their wealth made them socially acceptable in such circles. (This accent was used by Vivien Leigh in Gone with the Wind.) Other accents could mark you as 'working class' or 'poor white trash'. There seemed to be a separate social structure for the Black community, and each strata had it's own distinctive style of speech as well. The differences between the accents were subtle, and TKAM showed that Harper Lee throughly understood the subtleties of the South's caste system. One of the only things I disliked about the movie adaptation was the accents of the actors. (Scout and Jem spoke like 'working-class' natives, but the many of the others seemed a little 'off'.) Of course, education and experience affected accent; it was always easy to tell who had been in the military, for example. And there were certain professions (minister, doctor, lawyer) who were expected to be able to speak to all of the social classes, and others (politician, salesman) where it was a big advantage. I really don't know much about the Works Progress Administration; believe it or not it was a bit before my time (I was born in 1962), but a couple of the highways in our area were either created or repaired by the WPA. I seem to remember that some of the men you were young in the 30's 'went off' to work for the WPA, but it was fifteen or twenty years later that the federal government finally made a large economic impact in North Alabama - it was in the late 50's under the auspices of the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) that many of the homes in North Alabama had electrical power for the first time. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 10 2008, 08:28 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 7 Joined: 9:43pm January 4, 2006 |
Oh my, I'm so old! The WPA was a federal program in which people worked for the "greater good" (though no one used that slogan!). They built parks and wilderness areas, painted murals, took wonderful photographs and generally performed useful work, paid for by the government. It was a way to get people back to work during the Depression but had the great side-effect of producing a lot of important infra-structure for the USA. All thanks to Roosevelt! TKAMB was written to have taken place at the height of the American Depression. All of the country was suffering from unemployment and poverty but the South (and I live in Alabama) was particularly hard hit, since it was poor even before the Depression.
For those of you who don't know, Harper Lee is still living in Monroeville, Alabama and is one of our state treasures. -------------------- "The wide world is all about you; you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out."
Gandalf |
|
|
|
