Cultural Q&A, What is a scuppernong, anyway? |
 Aug 11 2008, 07:30 AM
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#11
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One Half of the DDD  Posts: 8,953 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere   |
Wow! This is turning into a fascinating thread. Thanks for all the explanations of *'druthers*, it makes perfect sense now. I love to hear different accents, they seem to be sadly in decline as people move around the world more, thankfully though speaking with a regional accent doesn't seem to be the drawback that it used to be, it can even be an advantage (just ask The Beatles lol)
Thanks to twiddlethosedials for the explanation about the Hoover cart, that does sound likely because people would have used whatever was available and putting together a car, or part of a car, that had no fuel with horses to pull it would be a good way to move things around. I'd also wondered about scuppernongs. I'd thought maybe they were apples, here in England picking up apples that have fallen from the trees and are just lying on the ground is called scrumping and it sounded a little similar, OK not much similar I admit lol, but grapes hadn't occurred to me. Can anyone throw any light on "Sleep, Little Three-Eyes?" that Jem asks Scout, and why is it shameful not to have ancestors from either side of the Battle of Hastings? --------------------  March's Book Nook: The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge/Skellig by David Almond "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Aug 11 2008, 10:18 AM
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#12
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TLC's Official Dungbomb Distributor  Posts: 1,474 Joined: 3:27pm June 3, 2006 Location: With Fred beyond the veil opening a new branch of WWW |
Dreamteam, I hate it when you make me work! I did an advanced search on Google and discovered that "sleep little three-eyes" is a reference to a fable by Edward Lang called "Little One-Eye, Little Two-Eyes and Little Three-Eyes found in The Green Fairy Book.
This is a brief summary of the fable: A woman had three daughters. One had an eye in the middle of her forehead (Little One-Eye), one had two normal eyes (Little Two-Eyes) and the third had two normal eyes with the third in the middle of her forehead (Little Three-Eyes). Little Two-Eyes was treated badly by her family for being normal and was only fed leftovers from the meals. One day while tending their goat a woman appeared and asked her why she was crying. When she explained her predicament, the woman told her some magical words to say to the goat and a table would appear with food on it so she could eat. Afterward, she would say magical words to make the table and food disappear. Finally, the sisters realized something was wrong when they noticed Little Two-Eyes taking her scraps out to feed the goat. Little One-Eye went out to discover what was going on, but Little Two-Eyes sang a song to make her sleep. Her mother then had Little Three-Eyes follow her. Little Two-Eyes sang another song but only made two of the eyes sleep, while the third eye was closed but only resting. She was able to tell her mother what was happening and Little Two-Eyes got into some big trouble for thinking she was better than the rest of her family. I'll forego the rest of the fable that can be found on Wikipeda. I suspect the term "Little Three-Eyes" is used because Jem knows Scout can't settle down for a good night's sleep because her third (or inner) eye is figuratively spinning from all the excitement from the night's activities. I'll let others more versed in chakras and alchemy discuss this further if they are so inclined. --------------------  Devoted thanks to Dreamteam for the pics! She's a champion of the computer illiterate!! |
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Aug 11 2008, 11:46 AM
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#13
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary  Posts: 4,980 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss. |
Wow ! So many of the questions I wanted to ask have already been asked and answered. There's this one I wanted to know though, being a food-lover : What exactly is a 'Lane' cake as made famous by Miss Maudie ? Is it something like a Battenburg cake or something ? I mean, is it real or is is just Miss Maudie's special recipe ? Sorry, I am lazy and didn't want to google it and sift through the results and am taking the easy way out. 
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Aug 11 2008, 04:31 PM
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#14
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One Half of the DDD Posts: 8,953 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere |
QUOTE(FredFan @ Aug 11 2008, 04:18 PM)  Dreamteam, I hate it when you make me work! I did an advanced search on Google and discovered that "sleep little three-eyes" is a reference to a fable by Edward Lang called "Little One-Eye, Little Two-Eyes and Little Three-Eyes found in The Green Fairy Book. FredFan you know its my mission to keep you occupied and out of mischief, oh OK, out of mischief is too much to ask, you'll have to settle for occupied  Yeah, that would fit, that Scout was never going to go to sleep while she was worrying about Jem going out to, as far as she's concerned, risk his life by going back to the Radley house and its a nice reference to them having fairy stories read to them rather than just the newspapers or documents that Atticus was reading. -------------------- March's Book Nook: The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge/Skellig by David Almond "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Aug 11 2008, 06:44 PM
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#15
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher  Posts: 146 Joined: 7:46pm June 22, 2008 Location: Springfield, Mo |
rowena r-
A lane cake ( i googled this and looked it up last year when i was teaching it, is a yellow cake (heavy on the butter i think) with a filling and garnished with pecans,cocunut and dried fruit, although these may be optional. . i found most of my information at southern coooking web sites. I didn't try to make one, though, i think i have seen them before called christmas cakes in other parts of the country, but am not sure-not the same thing as a christmas cake in Harry Potter, though, i had to look that up. the lane cake is supposed to have originated in alabama,. i go back to school on wed and will post the web site where i found the cultural stuff after that. Dreamteam- as for the question, about why it was shameful not to have any ancestors on the battle of hastings-as you see in the rest of the book-family roots, espescially old family roots are very important in the part of the country where they are from and where they are living. scout says it with a bit of dry wit, as atticus is not that impressed with old family roots and all, but it is of cultural significance at this time.espescially since, with the depression, the family name is all some of these families have left, hope i don't sound like a teacher there. -------------------- "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" Mr. Weasley was looking around. He loved everything to do with Muggles.... |
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Aug 12 2008, 10:50 AM
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#16
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary Posts: 4,980 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss. |
QUOTE(weaselyfan @ Aug 11 2008, 07:44 PM) rowena r- A lane cake ( i googled this and looked it up last year when i was teaching it, is a yellow cake (heavy on the butter i think) with a filling and garnished with pecans,cocunut and dried fruit, although these may be optional. . i found most of my information at southern coooking web sites. I didn't try to make one, though, i think i have seen them before called christmas cakes in other parts of the country, but am not sure-not the same thing as a christmas cake in Harry Potter, though, i had to look that up. the lane cake is supposed to have originated in alabama,. Thank you so much for the info weasleyfan !  Like I said, I was not in the mood to google it and you have justified my confidence that Leaky is quite as good.  Another question though : Why is the expression 'bought cotton' used for doing nothing ? Is it because the wealthy didn't do any real work and just made money out of the cotton that the poor workers slaved over ? Or something else entirely ?  -------------------- L O V E |
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Aug 13 2008, 01:44 PM
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#17
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Mischievous Manager  Posts: 5,448 Joined: 9:14am February 16, 2006 Location: Behind the sofa, watching Doctor Who |
"I never knew how old Mr Radley made his living - Jem said he `bought cotton', a polite term for doing nothing - but Mr Radley and his wife had lived there with their two sons as long as anybody could remember."
I'm not sure, but my guess is that it's a throwback to the difference between old money and new money in the South. The workers had to pick cotton, back-breaking labor under a hot, steamy sun. People who had money (like the O'Haras of Gone with the Wind) didn't have to work, and literally bought and sold the cotton. To the laborers in the field (which would have included all colors after the War), this must have seemed like they did nothing at all. I think what Jem really meant was that Old Mr. Radley had old money. Maybe the Radleys' relatives did trace to one side or the other of the Battle of Hastings! 
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Aug 13 2008, 05:14 PM
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#18
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Selling Illegal Items at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 2,819 Joined: 12:53pm July 7, 2006 Location: In front of the computer, of course! |
my hubby has taken up a global role in his company and is on the phone with Amnerica most evenings till late (we're in the UK)
He's enjoying the challenges of understanding some of their terms... We think we've worked out what 'He's an empty suit' means is iit like our term 'All mouth and no trousers' ??? but he was told by a superior (the emty suit man) 'I just needed to bust your chops!' Is this a serious matter? -------------------- |
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Aug 14 2008, 12:12 AM
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#19
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Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 515 Joined: 1:37pm September 7, 2007 Location: Azkaban, Practicing my Patronus |
QUOTE(Pyxis @ Jul 31 2008, 01:30 AM) To Kill a Mockingbird is set in the 1930's, during the Great Depression in the United States. This period of economic downturn started approximately 1929, and ended with the beginning of WWII in 1939. Mockingbird is sprinkled with references to the culture of the times, and we thought this thread would be nice to ask questions, and allow anyone who has time to research the answer to share what was discovered. Some questions to start with: * What was the 'Battle of the Hastings'? * What is a Hoover cart? * A short explanation of the WPA * It is said that Lee based her plot on the 'Scottsboro Case'...what are the facts of this prosecution? Feel free to share your research and ask your own questions! By the way, a 'scuppernong' is a type of grape native to the southeastern U.S. They have a thick skin and seeds, and grow in clusters, getting about 1-1 1/2 inches round. They have a sugar content of about 18-25%, I can't tell how sweet that would be, but it doesn't sound very sweet. Oh does this thread bring back so many memories! And now, I think I believe I understand why those who may not be from the U.S. South are so interested in the book! (Not in order): I remember picking Muscadine Grapes ("scuppernong") in Pine Mountain, Georgia many years ago. The grapes can be fermented to make wine; or cooked into an incredible Muscidine preserves. Be careful eating them straight, though, as the are very tart if they're not fully ripe. Batle of Hastings is a generational marker for blood status, and a strong affection for roots to Great Britain. (NOTE: JK Rowling said that Hogwarts was established about 1,000 years ago -- around the Battle of Hastings?) Hoover Carts were not good things in Southern Alabama during the Depression. Hoover was a Republican, perhaps still synonimous with Reconstruction (Northerners taking control of the decimated and conquered "Confederate South.") It was not polite to discuss people associated with them. The WPA (Works Progress Administration) of President Franklin D. Roosevelt was the largest agency of the New Deal to employ Depression Era people who were out of work. It eventually became the largest employment base in the U.S. until after World War II. By the way, do you know how the mockingbird got its name? It can immitate the songs of other birds. Yet it is the State bird of Tennessee, and many other Southern States. "Druthers" is an easy one. You're forced to do something which you'd rather not do. If you "had your druthers" (could do what you wanted to do) . . . Jett Black raises and interesting observation: If your host/friend wants to offer you something cool to drink, they might ask if you want a "Co-Cola". If you say "sure," or "thank you," the next question is: What kind of Co-Cola (Coke) do you want? This doesn't refer to Diet Coke, or Coke Zero, or the Classic one. In our region of the U.S., a Coke is a soft drink (generic). Also, Alabama borders Georgia. And "everyone" knows that Atlanta is where the Coca-Cola headquarters is. Should we be sensitive in addressing regional accents? I think I might have already stepped over some boundaries of generalizations. Very interesting thread. (Maybe JK Rowling chose the Battle of Hastings as a launching point for the Founders of Hogwarts!?) COTTON: Lazy? Probably a broker on the International Cotton Exchange on Exchange Street in Memphis (Cotton Capital of the World at the time). Other questions? This has been fun. Thank you. QUOTE(coppertopchopperhopper @ Aug 13 2008, 11:14 PM) my hubby has taken up a global role in his company and is on the phone with Amnerica most evenings till late (we're in the UK) He's enjoying the challenges of understanding some of their terms... We think we've worked out what 'He's an empty suit' means is iit like our term 'All mouth and no trousers' ??? but he was told by a superior (the emty suit man) 'I just needed to bust your chops!' Is this a serious matter? Lol, no. "Busting one's chops (jaw)" is not literal. It has more to do with getting another person (employee) onto the same wavelength. It is not meant with malice. "Busting one's chops" can also refer to "wasting the other person's time;" but is still not meant in a bitter, or harmful way. Hope this helps. ELC edited by Dreamteam to merge two consecutive posts This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 14 2008, 02:24 PM -------------------- In troubled times, it is often better to remember simple pleasures - family, virtue, and character - rather than to succumb to the woesome distractions of desire, defeat, and disillusionment. ELC
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Aug 14 2008, 02:36 PM
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#20
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 146 Joined: 7:46pm June 22, 2008 Location: Springfield, Mo |
QUOTE Another question though : Why is the expression 'bought cotton' used for doing nothing ? Is it because the wealthy didn't do any real work and just made money out of the cotton that the poor workers slaved over ? Or something else entirely ? bought cotton-means he basically lived off an inheritance-like you said, although the inheritance was probably old and dwindling which is why their "wealth" wasn't obvious, the house was falling down, etc. he didn't really need to work and didn't want to give up control of the house enough, so they scraped by on waht was left over from previous days. This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 14 2008, 02:46 PM
Reason for edit: to fix quote tags
-------------------- "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" Mr. Weasley was looking around. He loved everything to do with Muggles.... |
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