Defector Snape, When did Snape come to the good side? |
  Mar 9 2006, 06:54 AM
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#1
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie  Posts: 97 Joined: 11:18am February 14, 2006 Location: The Netherlands  |
I am wondering about something for a long time. When exactly did Snape go over to Dumbledore's side (the good side)?
When Harry is watching the trials in the pensieve in book 4, GoF, Dumbedore declared that Snape turned to the good side before Voldemorts downfall. In book 6, HBP, Dumbledore told Harry that Snape was very sory for what happened because of him telling Voldemort about the prophecy. This consequences only became clear after Voldemort had killed James and Lily and after his downfall. Is Dumbledore hiding something for Harry? And when do you think Severus did go to Dumbledore? I have the feeling that if we figure this out, we will figure out a few things about the dead of Harry's parents to. It must have been in the year between the prophecy and the killing of James en Lily... 
-------------------- I am so sorry, my English is so bad!
"Could you expect me to rejoice in the inferiority of your connections?" Fitzwilliam Darcy "To Parry Otter, the Chosen Boy. Who - well - something of that sort." |
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Mar 9 2006, 07:45 AM
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#2
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 334 Joined: 8:30am December 28, 2005 |
Assumed the prophecy was made in spring 1980 and Snape started teaching on September 1rst 1981, he must have change side between those dates, because Dumbledore had not had accepted him as a teacher before his defection. The names of the two boys in question could not have been known to anyone for sure before August 1rst 1980. Incidently that is about the same time Regulus Black may have decided to leave Voldemort, too. Maybe there is a connection and the two decided to leave together or at least for the same reason. Sirius thinks Regulus was killed by a fellow DE not by Voldemort himself. Can Snape have been the lucky one or a witness? From the few things we know about Regulus (Slughorn calls him soft), he seems to have quite relatively good natured for a Black, except for his belief in pureblood supremacy. Can friendship between Snape and Regulus be an issue?
Regards Sionna -------------------- Never trust a smiling cat or a soft spoken raven.
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Mar 9 2006, 08:32 AM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 4:46pm May 15, 2005 Location: Trying to make things work...  |
sionna, i've never thought about it. great guess.
I think that Regulus died after the attack to the Potters, cause I believe Sirius was already in jail when he died. I can be this. We know that Regulus was a very good wizard, in order to be remembered by Slughorn and had been member of his club, maybe he was a very good friend of Severus. Many are saying that Lily was the cause, but somehow i just can't believe that. I prefer a lot your guess. --------------------  This is it. Enjoy your reading!!! |
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Mar 10 2006, 09:37 AM
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#4
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Freelance Daily Prophet Reporter Posts: 1,537 Joined: 3:18pm August 30, 2005 Location: Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver.  |
QUOTE(Sionna_Raven @ Mar 9 2006, 12:45 PM) [snapback]737886[/snapback] Assumed the prophecy was made in spring 1980 and Snape started teaching on September 1rst 1981, he must have change side between those dates, because Dumbledore had not had accepted him as a teacher before his defection. The names of the two boys in question could not have been known to anyone for sure before August 1rst 1980. Incidently that is about the same time Regulus Black may have decided to leave Voldemort, too. Maybe there is a connection and the two decided to leave together or at least for the same reason. Sirius thinks Regulus was killed by a fellow DE not by Voldemort himself. Can Snape have been the lucky one or a witness? From the few things we know about Regulus (Slughorn calls him soft), he seems to have quite relatively good natured for a Black, except for his belief in pureblood supremacy. Can friendship between Snape and Regulus be an issue? Regards Sionna If you look in the OotP, where Harry is at 12 Grimmauld Place looking at the tapestry, he sees Regulus's name and a date of death 15 years prior. Harry is 15 at the time so we know for sure that Regelus died the year Harry was born. -------------------- "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter Thompson
"Shun the non-believers! Shun! Shun!" from Charlie the Unicorn |
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Mar 10 2006, 12:04 PM
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#5
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 227 Joined: 8:02pm June 8, 2005 Location: Mourning Sev at Spinner's End *sobs* |
GeorgianaDarcy, I've always wondered the same thing, thanks for the thread.
I will not be a big help on this since I'm really awful with timelines, dates, etc. but want to point out a couple of things. - When Sirius told Harry about Regulus, he said something like this: "From what I found out after he died..." So Sirius was not in jail at the moment of his brother's death because he was able to investigate about it. - Dumbledore said (can't recall in which book) that somebody informed him the Potters were in danger, that's why DD warned them and they went into hiding. I believe that "somebody" probably was Snape. 
--------------------  "And then a Hero comes along with the strength to carry on..." |
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Mar 10 2006, 12:20 PM
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#6
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 334 Joined: 8:30am December 28, 2005 |
QUOTE(theredwitch @ Mar 10 2006, 02:37 PM) [snapback]738907[/snapback] If you look in the OotP, where Harry is at 12 Grimmauld Place looking at the tapestry, he sees Regulus's name and a date of death 15 years prior. Harry is 15 at the time so we know for sure that Regelus died the year Harry was born. Sirius and Harry have a look at the tapestry in summer 1995. That still fits my suggested timeline for Regulus death and Snape's defection after August 1rst 1980. Regards Sionna -------------------- Never trust a smiling cat or a soft spoken raven.
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Mar 10 2006, 02:05 PM
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 326 Joined: 12:01pm October 12, 2005 |
The following information/timeline is from the LL Lexicon. The dates are a bit murky, but it gives a general idea of when certain events happened.
1980 - Before July on a "cold, wet night": The Prophecy: Snape seeks teaching job at Hogwarts. Eavesdrops on Dumbledore's interview of Sybill Trelawney and overhears the first part of the Prophecy. At some point afterward, Snape tells Voldemort what he heard (OP37, HBP25). This event may have happened as early as the fall of 1979, but a date in the spring seems more likely. 31 July: Harry Potter is born to James and Lily Potter. Date unknown: Death of Regulus Black soon after he tries to leave the Death Eaters. Date unknown: Snape turns on Voldemort and becomes informer to Dumbledore. Dumbledore had complete faith in Snape's loyalty, but it is unknown how Snape was able to convince the Headmaster of this. Was Snape already working for Dumbledore when he overheard the Prophecy? Snape's role as a double-agent for the Order of the Phoenix may have begun at the same time he joined the Death Eaters, but it seems more likely to have happened after he overheard the Prophecy and before he was hired to teach at Hogwarts. 1981 Before 1 September: Hired to teach at Hogwarts, but Dumbledore refuses Snape's request that he be assigned to teach Defense Against the Dark Arts (OP17). He was away from Hogwarts for five years, which also means that students that were in the first year whilst he was in his seventh year, will now be sixth year students in his Potions class, and students that were in their second year, will be in their seventh year now, and might possibly even remember him. 24 October: Fidelius charm cast on Godric's Hollow to protect the Potter family. 31 October: Quite possibly midnight, Harry Potter defeats Voldemort at the village of Godric’s Hollow. 1980 Regulus Black attempts to back out of being a Death Eater and is killed on Voldemort's orders (OP6). We don't know exactly what events led up to the death of Regulus Black, although fan speculation is running wild that he might be the infamous R.A.B. (HBP28) --------------------  this very cool sig by crom |
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Mar 10 2006, 04:39 PM
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#8
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 97 Joined: 11:18am February 14, 2006 Location: The Netherlands |
 thanx everyone!So it seems to be quite clear that Snape came to Dumbledore a few months before Voldemort killed Lily and James. But that makes the reason Dumbledore gives to Harry for trusting Severus a little doubtful in my humble opinion. Dumbledore told Harry that Snape was very sorry for the things that happened because of him telling Voldemort about (part of) the prophecy. A lot of people thinks he was perticularly sorry about Lily and thats why Dumbledore trusted him. But a the time, he could not be sorry about it. It didn't happen yet. Severus was a very young man in his early twenties. He has been a death eater for just a few years. Voldemort would not tell him he was going after Harry or Neville. Not months before it happened anyway. Dumbledore is withholding something here! -------------------- I am so sorry, my English is so bad!
"Could you expect me to rejoice in the inferiority of your connections?" Fitzwilliam Darcy "To Parry Otter, the Chosen Boy. Who - well - something of that sort." |
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Mar 11 2006, 09:03 PM
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#9
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Disgruntled House-Elf at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 408 Joined: 9:53pm October 29, 2005 |
QUOTE(GeorgianaDarcy @ Mar 10 2006, 09:39 PM) [snapback]739224[/snapback] thanx everyone!So it seems to be quite clear that Snape came to Dumbledore a few months before Voldemort killed Lily and James. But that makes the reason Dumbledore gives to Harry for trusting Severus a little doubtful in my humble opinion. Dumbledore told Harry that Snape was very sorry for the things that happened because of him telling Voldemort about (part of) the prophecy. A lot of people thinks he was perticularly sorry about Lily and thats why Dumbledore trusted him. But a the time, he could not be sorry about it. It didn't happen yet. Severus was a very young man in his early twenties. He has been a death eater for just a few years. Voldemort would not tell him he was going after Harry or Neville. Not months before it happened anyway. Dumbledore is withholding something here! DD is definitely hiding something. He tells Harry that Snape feels great remorse for telling LV the prophecy, but I don't think he implies that is his reason for trusting Snape. He appears to almost tell Harry the reason, but then decides against it. So I think a big key to finding out when/why Snape turned to the good side is to ask why would DD want to withhold this information from Harry...especially after he decided it was a mistake to withhold the truth about the prophecy for such a long time? The "Harry's not old enough" excuse doesn't work anymore. Red Hen (http://www.redhen-publications.com/Double00Sevie.html) suggests that the whole prophecy thing is a sham and Snape was never really on the DE side to begin with. I tend to like the theory that Sev and Reg left together, but why wouldn't DD tell this to Harry? Here's my speculation... The whole horcrux hunt in the cave in the 6th book was a scam. Sev and Reg left the DE because they found out about Horcuxes and told DD. This is the reason DD trusts Snape. Snape was asked to hide the locket Horcrux for LV so he set up all the obstacles (or at least the last one involving the potion) in the cave. He told Reg how to get the Horcrux and Reg stole the Horcrux locket, replaced it with the fake locket, and took the fall while Sev stayed alive to be a double agent for DD. DD can't tell Harry this story for several reasons... -Harry might not subscribe to the whole Horcrux theory if he knows it comes from Snape. -DD plans to take Harry out of the castle as soon as the DE come to bring him to the cave. He knows he is going to die and he is going to use the fake Horcrux setup to inspire Harry to go on without him. He can't tell Harry the real reason he trusts Snape because it would ruin this plot. OK I went off on a tangent there, but that's my pet theory at the moment.  --------------------  |
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 Mar 12 2006, 09:54 AM
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Guest Speaker at Flourish and Blotts Posts: 5,097 Joined: 4:23am August 25, 2005 Location: nowhere to be found |
QUOTE The whole horcrux hunt in the cave in the 6th book was a scam. Sev and Reg left the DE because they found out about Horcuxes and told DD. This is the reason DD trusts Snape. Snape was asked to hide the locket Horcrux for LV so he set up all the obstacles (or at least the last one involving the potion) in the cave. He told Reg how to get the Horcrux and Reg stole the Horcrux locket, replaced it with the fake locket, and took the fall while Sev stayed alive to be a double agent for DD. DD can't tell Harry this story for several reasons... Sorry, but there's something strange...if indeed, Dumbledore knew about the Horcruxes before Harry's birth or coming to Hogwarts why exactly was he so surprised when Harry killed the DiaryMort? Why Voldemort's speech, delivered at the rebirth party and retold by Harry (GoF) was for him the final proof? If he knew before about the Horcruxes, he would try to find them and destroy earlier, before Voldy was able to get a new body, profiting from his feebleness, lack of wand and friends/servants. Why wait so long? Because of the prophecy?But the prophecy might have remained unfulfilled... By the way, how come two young wizards, just out of school, and quite new in the ranks of the DE's, happened to know their master's big secret? Do you think Voldie has babbled about it over the elf-made wine or something? 
--------------------  OPAST forever!!! |
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