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The Despicable Marauder, Pettigrew vs. Snape

DarkShadows3 View Member Profile	May 30 2007, 06:40 PM Post #1
Shopping for a New Firebolt Posts: 854 Joined: 9:12am April 1, 2007 Location: Not quite in the afterlife but not quite on earth	After reading HBP's second chapter, this is the last time we hear from Pettigrew. Where could he be? Why didnt he come and help the DEs at Hogwarts in HBP? I dont like Pettigrew but I hate to leave him out because he is a BIG character because he was the one who ratted(no pun included) out Lily and James to LV. Anyway, I have thought about another character who kinda helped LV too get Lily and James by listening to half the prophecy and reporting it to LV...you guessed it Severus Snape. This bullentin will be comparing the two to each other: The Differences Peter Pettigrew- 1.People underestimate him because he is cowardly and small and he reminds most of a rat. 2.No one(readers) seemed to defend Pettigrew's actions. At first in PoA when we first know about Pettigrew we pity him because we thought he was murdered by Sirius. When we finally know the truth about Pettigrew we hate him and thats the end to that 3.I hate Peter Pettigrew(this is not needed but i want to insert this in) Severus Snape- 1.People dont underestimate Snape because he is a powerful wizard and knows alot 2.Even though we have known Snape for six years and get the impression that he is a greasy haired git, and even after the incident with the killing with Dumbledore and how he treats Harry some readers still find a reason to trust him(which includes me)but does Peter get this? No....how sad...not! 3.I trust Snape(this is also not needed but i want to put it) The Connections Peter Pettigrew & Severus Snape- 1.Both are the same age or maybe on is alittle older or younger, [b]2. Both are doubted by Lord Voldemort and some how redeemed themselves to prove themselves 3.Both were defended by Remus...Remus defends Peter in PoA before knowing the truth and he defends Snape in front of Harry because if DD trusted Snape Remus would too. 4.Both betrayed people(Peter- Lily and James, Sirius, Remus, so forth: Snape- LV, DD, Order(if he killed DD on purpose) 5.Both are spies. 6.Both arent trusted by Death Eaters. They talk about Snape's allegiance to LV behind his back and they dont respect Peter so I guess they dont trust him. 7.Both were saved by a Potter. Snape was saved by James which he has repaid by saving Harry loads of times! And Harry saved Peter from Remus and Sirius from killing him. Hmm....as for my comparsions and differences between the wo MAJOR characters it seems that they both are kind equal in a way. I'm not saying whether you guys should like Snape or Pettigrew maybe you should just think about how they are alike. Should Pettigrew be redeemed just like how some Snape is good fans believe? i would like to hear your thoughts on the matter -------------------- When I think of it, its like a new adventure waiting to be explored. Everything that humankind discovers or tries to figure out leaves nothing for the IMAGINATION because there are FACTS to prove you right or wrong. But the afterlife makes you wonder: what next?

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Replies (1 - 9)

Oryx View Member Profile	May 30 2007, 07:45 PM Post #2
Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007	Peter's worst crime isn't betraying James and Lily, nor is it killing 12 random strangers or Cedric. His worst crime is going out of free will to Voldemort in Albania and resurrecting him, thus sharing responsibility for all crimes brought on by the renewed Voldemort, including the killings by giants, the increase in werewolf attacks, dementor attacks etc. Nobody forced him, he could have found some other hiding place for his rat form. It would take Snape a lot of effort to reach that level of responsibility for evil outcomes.

StepInTime View Member Profile	May 30 2007, 08:54 PM Post #3
Sundae-Nut-Chopper at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 948 Joined: 12:30am December 18, 2006	QUOTE(Oryx @ May 30 2007, 08:45 PM) [snapback]1234217[/snapback] Peter's worst crime isn't betraying James and Lily, nor is it killing 12 random strangers or Cedric. His worst crime is going out of free will to Voldemort in Albania and resurrecting him, thus sharing responsibility for all crimes brought on by the renewed Voldemort, including the killings by giants, the increase in werewolf attacks, dementor attacks etc. Nobody forced him, he could have found some other hiding place for his rat form. It would take Snape a lot of effort to reach that level of responsibility for evil outcomes. If Snape wilfully and maliciously murdered DD, would that make him responsible for any evil that arises due to DD's absence? And if Snape could be redeemed of DD's murder (if it was murder), could PP be redeemed for LV's anti-murder? Of course, that's more of a rhetorical (and certainly unmeasurable) question because PP's is a "positive" effect (i.e., occurrences of evil) where Snape's would be "negative" (i.e., non-occurrences that allow evil -- and who can see what doesn't happen?), if he did murder DD...but there it is for the sake of argument... Great points, DarkShadows3! I've never really thought about PP more than I needed to, but there certainly are parallels -- and I have to say that I hope that any character who wants to be redeemed, can be, though should still face any consequences of the actions that need redemption. -------------------- "...the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters" - Sirius Black (OOTP14)

Oryx View Member Profile	May 30 2007, 10:05 PM Post #4
Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007	Peter knew the sort of thing a reincarnated Voldemort would do. No news there. On the tower, unless Snape had a specific antidote in his pocket he could not have saved Dumbledore. Snape chose the path of least harm.

kwiki View Member Profile	May 30 2007, 11:53 PM Post #5
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 520 Joined: 11:43am March 19, 2007 Location: Canadian witchcraft school	I think that Pettigrew is a complete rat. He betrayed both the Potter's and the Order in the first war and will betray Voldemort and the DE's in the second war. He also has a life debt that he owes Harry and this will be revealed in DH. Is he more powerful than what people think of him, yes. He orchestrated the blowing up a street and was able to use the AK curse. You have to have a certain mind set and a certain amount of magical talent to pull off successfully. You also need to have talent to become an animagus in which he was able to do with no formal lessons from teachers. Snape on the other hand has shown his loyalty towards the order. Hagrid overheard Snape and DD discuss something at one point and I think this had something to do with Snape might having to kill DD at some point to keep face. When Draco could not kill DD, even with the urging of other DE's, Snape who was in on the plan had to finish the job. The look of revulsion was aimed at both DD and Draco. At Draco for failing to follow through with the plans set out for him set by Voldemort and at the thought of having to go through the killing of a man he trusted and boss.

rowena r View Member Profile	May 31 2007, 11:00 AM Post #6
Dumbledore's Personal Secretary Posts: 4,970 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss.	Great topic DarkShadows3 ! I too trust Snape by the way. As for the rat, .....#%$ !!! Like Oryx* said, the worst thing PP did was going back to Voldemort even after Harry saved his life. What he did before was no less to begin with - betraying his friends, killing innocent muggles, sending Sirius to Azkaban, etc., but returning to Voldemort and helping him to regain his body is totally abominable. Even if he comes between Harry and an AK, I feel it would not be not enough expiation for his heinous actions. The whole magilla starts with PP if you look at it carefully. Granted, Snape did get the ball rolling by conveying half the prophecy to Voldemort, but all the Dark Lord's plans would have come to nothing provided PP had kept his mouth shut. Voldemort would still be trying to find the Potters for all you know. I know some people blame Sirius for out-smarting himself with his brilliant idea of switching to PP at the last moment, but that was an honest and tragic mistake, regretted by Sirius himself more than anyone else, not base treachery. Not content with being responsible for the Potters' murders, PP must needs seek out Voldemort in Albania and help restore him to power again. I simply can't forgive him for that. Now take Snape; he made a mistake, admitted it to DD, and atoned for it (and still is atoning actually). We will know for sure in DH, but I am quite certain that Snape did what he did because DD had ordered him to do so if necessary. Whatever anyone might say, Snape is highly courageous and I admire him for it. Agreed he came under DD's protection and escaped Azkaban, but what about the DE's and Voldemort himself whom he went back to at the end of GoF ? They could have made sure he died a painful death, but Snape did not run away like Karkaroff or cower in fear while remaining at Hogwarts. He faced an angry Voldemort and convinced him that he was loyal and had been loyal only to him all those years; Voldemort being an expert Legilimens wouldn't have made Snape's task easy. He indeed took his life in his hands as he returned to Voldemort a couple of hours late, and returned with both his life and position as spy intact. I wonder what will happen to him in DH. Will he preserve his secret till the very end letting everyone think he is Voldemort's no:1 DE, or will Harry find out that the look of hatred and revulsion on Snape's face that fateful night was directed mostly at himself and not DD ? There is no doubt in my mind at all as to who is the better person - the treacherous rat, or the anguished double-agent. -------------------- L O V E

Spinks View Member Profile	May 31 2007, 02:55 PM Post #7
Dodgy Cauldrons Dealer Posts: 1,643 Joined: 8:39am July 6, 2005 Location: Manchester	QUOTE(DarkShadows3 @ May 31 2007, 12:40 AM) [snapback]1234153[/snapback] After reading HBP's second chapter, this is the last time we hear from Pettigrew. Where could he be? Why didnt he come and help the DEs at Hogwarts in HBP? I dont like Pettigrew but I hate to leave him out because he is a BIG character because he was the one who ratted(no pun included) out Lily and James to LV. I think he wasn't at the castle with the other Death eaters because he's not a fighter. I don't think Voldemort really expects him to fight. He's been useful and could carry on being useful, so sending him out to die that easily wouldn't be on any scheming villain's to-do list. I never thought of Peter Pettigrew and Snape being so similar before. You make a very good point. I think another interesting thing to consider is the disparity between viewpoints between the readers and the characters. The readers seem to hate Peter much more furiously than even Harry does, whereas they have a lot more tolerance and faith in Snape. Harry seems to treat Peter with more disgust than fury, whereas he has absolutely zero tolerance of Snape. I think that's mainly because unlike Harry we can have the judgement of spectators. We piece things together and make our minds up about people without the drawback of having instinctive emotions. Snape doesn't sneer at us, he doesn't mock our potions, he doesn't insult our dads... so although we're angry at him on Harry;s behalf we can also step aside a little and look for any possible reedemable qualities. But I think it might also have a lot to do with fan fiction. No, really! Think about it - fan fiction tends to exagerrate some aspects of fandom opinion so 'possibly redeemable' because positively noble and a wretched, cowardly character like Peter is dismissed as purely villainous because, to be frank, there's asbolutely no glamour to him. With an online fandom of this magnitude (and slight craziness - I say it with pride! ) it's not surprising that fan fiction can influence how many readers see the actual books and characters. Personally, I can't stand fan fiction on the whole and funnily enough I quite like Peter Pettigrew as a character. I think he's a lot more interesting than people are willing to give him credit for. He may not have the tall, dark kind of 'glamour' that Snape has but he's absolutely significant. I agree that he's worse in certain ways, because he went back to Voldemort after having the chance of giving himself up and because he's a traitor, which in some respects makes what he does a lot more despicable than a merely very evil person doing very evil things. Nobody would bat an eyelid if Snape had been evil all along. What makes bothh characters interesting is that it feels like a 50/50 chance on all bets regarding how we'll feel about them in the next book. Will we be booing or cheering their actions? And I think most fans want both characters to do the right thing because we don't see either of them as true villains. Don't let it be said that good and evil in the Potter books is all black and white.

Faekitty View Member Profile	May 31 2007, 03:18 PM Post #8
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 14 Joined: 12:42pm April 25, 2007 Location: Gryffindor tower, putting on dress robes.	Peter owes Harry a life debt.. Snape.. really doesn't. I don't know who to trust!!!..eee!!! So I'm hiding until July 21st! -------------------- "On July 21st, the entire world will be silent and reading, lovely isn't it?" What do YOU think will happen?

spinnersfriend View Member Profile	May 31 2007, 04:59 PM Post #9
Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 51 Joined: 4:19am May 27, 2007	The trouble with Peter Pettigrew is he just makes me cringe with disgust every time he's mentioned. It's almost instinctive. Prof. Snape just doesn't have the same effect. I think it may have something to do with the way I (and possibly other readers) perceive their codes of behaviour. Pettigrew appears to be a total loose screw. He could easily just turn around and kill or torture you for no apparent reason. He doesn't appear to require any form of justification to behave abominably. Snape on the other hand appears to consider his actions and their impact. He appears to be adhering to some kind of moral code (however twisted it may turn out to be) and to have some sense of honour. I do not think he would turn round and kill someone unless he felt it was justified. This, in my opinion, is a fundamental difference between the two men.

Spinks View Member Profile	May 31 2007, 06:13 PM Post #10
Dodgy Cauldrons Dealer Posts: 1,643 Joined: 8:39am July 6, 2005 Location: Manchester	QUOTE(spinnersfriend @ May 31 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]1235263[/snapback] Pettigrew appears to be a total loose screw. He could easily just turn around and kill or torture you for no apparent reason. He doesn't appear to require any form of justification to behave abominably. Oh, I totally disagree! I don't think any of the terrible things Pettigrew has done in the series so far have been out of malice or callousness. I think he always acts out of basic cowardice. That's his justification, and he's always tried to justify what he's done by saying he wasn't strong, he wasn't brave, he couldn't help it. I don't think he would kill or torture somebody for no apparant reason. I don't think he would even kill or torture somebody because he disliked them. I think he's a total puppet. What he does is what Voldemort wants him to do, and his reason is always that he's too mad with fear not to obey. I got the impression throughout his cringing and pleading in POA that he knew what he did was bad and that he didn't actually want to do it, just like he gets no enjoymeny out of serving Voldemort now. He's not like a character such as Bellatrix Lestrange, who serves Voldemort out of the pleasure of being a Death Eater. Peter is rat who, in times of danger, acts like a little mouse.

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