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Deus Ex Machina in the HP series, Conceivable or Inconceivable, That is the Question
lirene
post Aug 1 2008, 05:47 PM
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A very interesting discussion was born in the Carry on Camping thread brought forth by SarahW:
QUOTE(SarahW @ Aug 19 2008, 04:02 PM) *
The issue with the Deluminator, is that for 6.5 books it was a device to remove light. Then, suddenly, it developed the ability to detect the location of lost friends and also teleport the owner to them. I try to avoid the phrase, but lots of critics think of it as the worst type of Deus Ex-Machina.

Starlesswinter posted the following:
QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 19 2008, 06:23 PM) *
Oh, and the deluminator thing...it IS a deux machina, in my opinion, because its other abilities were not even hinted at before. When Jo foreshadows in that awesome subtle way she has, you can tell it was planned. But things in Deathly Hallows such as the Deluminator, each of the Hallows, the flesh memory Snitch (which I can't seem to find in Quidditch Through the Ages, hm...): these weren't hinted at whatsoever, and I don't buy that they were planned.

And davidenglish the following:
QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 20 2008, 11:34 AM) *
I don't see any of the gifts given in Dumbledore's Will as Deus ex machina. Indeed, the gifts parallel the Deathly Hallows. The Trio are on a winding road and have escaped certain death and so Death (Dumbledore) gives them three gifts: The Tales of Beedle the Bard, The Deluminator, and the special Snitch.

According to wikipedia deus ex machina is defined as follows:
QUOTE
It is an improbable contrivance in a story characterized by a sudden unexpected solution to a seemingly intractable problem. The term "deus ex machina" came to mean any inferior plot device that expeditiously solves the conflict of a narrative.
Several posters have discussed in insightful detail that many of the plot lines unearthed in DH were a bit unbelievable and were contrived by Rowling at the last minute. In addition, some feel that the things that we learn are improbable and we as readers were never given any hints in previous books in the series.

Others feel that Rowling did a brilliant job in interweaving her complex plot, and we learned everything we needed to know, as it was planned and Rowling succeeded in making her plot believable and enough plausible hints were given to the readers.

So, let's discuss deus ex machina as a plot device in the series, its pros and cons and remember to give canon evidence to support your theories smile.gif

I would like to thank SarahW, starlesswinter, davidenglish, roonwit and all of those posters who have contributed to the discussions so far and who have inspired this thread thumbup.gif


This post has been edited by lirene: Aug 23 2008, 12:33 AM


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Posts in this topic
- lirene   Deus Ex Machina in the HP series   Aug 1 2008, 05:47 PM
- - lirene   QUOTE(Shard @ Aug 20 2008, 05:23 PM) I ag...   Aug 20 2008, 05:10 PM
- - starlesswinter   Well of course, Jo SAYS that she planned it all ou...   Aug 21 2008, 01:13 AM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 21 2008, 07:13...   Aug 21 2008, 02:58 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 21 2008, 07:13...   Aug 21 2008, 03:26 PM
|- - Ex Libres Cogito   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 21 2008, 07:13...   Aug 21 2008, 07:30 PM
- - lirene   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 21 2008, 01:13...   Aug 21 2008, 02:56 PM
|- - starlesswinter   Well, I'm sorry to have to disagree with you a...   Aug 21 2008, 07:53 PM
- - Shard   The problem with the this is that it's from Ha...   Aug 22 2008, 08:42 PM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(Shard @ Aug 22 2008, 07:42 PM) The ...   Aug 22 2008, 09:54 PM
- - SarahW   starless winter - I totally agree with you about t...   Aug 23 2008, 02:40 PM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(SarahW @ Aug 23 2008, 02:40 PM) sta...   Aug 23 2008, 06:45 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(SarahW @ Aug 23 2008, 07:40 PM) Whi...   Aug 23 2008, 09:51 PM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(SarahW @ Aug 23 2008, 07:40 PM) Whi...   Aug 23 2008, 10:01 PM
- - SarahW   starless winter - I totally agree that the inconsi...   Aug 23 2008, 08:57 PM
- - Harry's Horntail   My problem with having foreshadowing explaining th...   Aug 23 2008, 09:21 PM
- - starlesswinter   SarahW - I do agree with you on most parts, but I ...   Aug 24 2008, 12:16 PM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 24 2008, 05:16...   Aug 24 2008, 01:14 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 24 2008, 06:16...   Aug 24 2008, 02:08 PM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 24 2008, 01:08 P...   Aug 24 2008, 06:26 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 25 2008, 12:26...   Aug 24 2008, 09:23 PM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 24 2008, 09:23 P...   Aug 24 2008, 11:24 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 25 2008, 04:24...   Aug 25 2008, 12:20 AM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 24 2008, 11:20 P...   Aug 25 2008, 01:35 AM
||- - davidenglish   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 25 2008, 06:35...   Aug 25 2008, 12:41 PM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 25 2008, 06:20 A...   Aug 25 2008, 08:48 AM
- - SarahW   starlesswinter - Always willing to agree with some...   Aug 24 2008, 02:03 PM
- - Arianhrod   I posted a long time ago about all the plot holes ...   Aug 25 2008, 01:59 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTEI posted a long time ago about all the plot h...   Aug 25 2008, 02:31 PM
- - lirene   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Aug 25 2008, 01:59 PM) ...   Aug 25 2008, 02:20 PM
- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(lirene @ Aug 25 2008, 02:20 PM) QUO...   Aug 25 2008, 02:44 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Aug 25 2008, 08:44 PM) ...   Aug 25 2008, 03:21 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Aug 25 2008, 08:44 PM) ...   Aug 25 2008, 03:22 PM
||- - Hatun punchaw   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 25 2008, 04:22 P...   Sep 10 2008, 03:51 PM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(Arianhrod @ Aug 25 2008, 08:44 PM) ...   Aug 25 2008, 05:53 PM
- - starlesswinter   Seriously, davidenglish, nearly all of your commen...   Aug 25 2008, 05:29 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 25 2008, 11:29...   Aug 25 2008, 06:01 PM
|- - davidenglish   I appreciate, starlesswinter, that DH left you dis...   Aug 25 2008, 08:32 PM
- - Ex Libres Cogito   Ron's speaking Parseltongue as Deux Ex Machina...   Aug 25 2008, 07:02 PM
- - Shard   I remember this conversation Ari I think one of th...   Aug 25 2008, 07:12 PM
- - lirene   QUOTE(momwitch @ Aug 25 2008, 05:53 PM) I...   Aug 25 2008, 08:02 PM
- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 25 2008, 07:32 P...   Aug 26 2008, 12:08 AM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 26 2008, 05:08...   Aug 26 2008, 11:29 AM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 26 2008, 08:29 A...   Aug 26 2008, 12:11 PM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 26 2008, 11:29 A...   Aug 26 2008, 07:30 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 26 2008, 04:30...   Aug 27 2008, 02:23 PM
- - davidenglish   L'Arianna Lasciatemi morire! E che volet...   Aug 26 2008, 11:46 PM
- - davidenglish   Foreshadowing: To shadow or typify beforehand; be ...   Aug 27 2008, 07:19 PM
- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(Henrietta)The problem is that as I read thro...   Aug 28 2008, 09:33 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 28 2008, 07:33...   Aug 29 2008, 12:00 AM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(Henrietta @ Aug 29 2008, 12:00 AM) ...   Aug 29 2008, 07:46 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 29 2008, 04:46...   Aug 30 2008, 12:04 AM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(Henrietta @ Aug 29 2008, 11:04 PM) ...   Aug 30 2008, 07:04 PM
|- - momwitch   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 31 2008, 12:04...   Aug 31 2008, 10:37 AM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 30 2008, 04:04...   Aug 31 2008, 11:49 AM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(Henrietta @ Aug 31 2008, 10:49 AM) ...   Aug 31 2008, 12:22 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Aug 31 2008, 09:22...   Aug 31 2008, 03:12 PM
|- - starlesswinter   QUOTE(Henrietta @ Aug 31 2008, 03:12 PM) ...   Sep 1 2008, 08:21 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(starlesswinter @ Sep 2 2008, 02:21 ...   Sep 1 2008, 09:46 PM
- - davidenglish   Well, all literature is about Death or Love or bot...   Aug 30 2008, 02:02 AM
- - Jadguy   The problem I have with the invisibility cloak is ...   Aug 30 2008, 03:38 AM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(Jadguy @ Aug 30 2008, 09:38 AM) The...   Aug 30 2008, 10:37 AM
- - davidenglish   I always thought Harry Potter was JKR's Answer...   Aug 31 2008, 03:02 PM
|- - Henrietta   Campusanis - I think that's an essential point...   Sep 2 2008, 07:49 PM
|- - Henrietta   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Aug 31 2008, 12:02 P...   Sep 11 2008, 10:00 PM
- - davidenglish   Henrietta, you've described the pacing or rhyt...   Aug 31 2008, 09:10 PM
- - Campusanis   QUOTEI think you mean "impenetrable". An...   Sep 2 2008, 11:57 AM
- - Shard   Actually Prioi Incatum was hinted at earlier in th...   Sep 3 2008, 01:36 PM
- - Campusanis   You're right, Shard, it was very much to be ex...   Sep 3 2008, 04:55 PM
- - Shard   I think I actually understand DE's defintion o...   Sep 3 2008, 05:54 PM
- - Campusanis   I think you do have somewhat of a point with DH-Du...   Sep 11 2008, 08:29 PM
- - Spectrespecs   I'm entering rather late in this discussion, a...   Sep 16 2008, 02:12 PM
- - HP Theoretician   I was looking to dig up this thread... Sorry for ...   Dec 25 2008, 09:46 PM
- - wickedboy   In almost every case where 'dues ex machina...   Dec 25 2008, 10:59 PM
- - Mrs_Linnea_Snape   Let me first say that, although I admit I am prett...   Dec 26 2008, 09:02 PM
- - Mrs_Linnea_Snape   The thing with Snape is, I don't think he was ...   Dec 28 2008, 02:25 AM
- - chocolatekisses   While it may have been better if JRK had dropped i...   Dec 30 2008, 11:52 PM
- - davidenglish   Well, as one who has travelled on Toronto's Ni...   Dec 31 2008, 01:32 AM
- - Fourmagpies   Why is it that some threads just don't seem to...   Jan 1 2009, 11:45 AM
- - Ravenklaw   I would say that the Order showing up at the Minis...   Jan 21 2009, 07:00 AM
- - Shard   I disagree about summoning the bus in the middle o...   Jan 22 2009, 08:52 AM
|- - Ravenklaw   QUOTE(Shard @ Jan 22 2009, 08:52 AM) A Du...   Jan 22 2009, 06:24 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Ravenklaw @ Jan 22 2009, 11:24 PM) ...   Jan 22 2009, 07:41 PM
|- - Shard   QUOTE(roonwit @ Jan 22 2009, 07:41 PM) QU...   Jan 22 2009, 08:09 PM
- - Fourmagpies   I think I do have one: When the Elder Wand repair...   Jan 29 2009, 07:31 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Fourmagpies @ Jan 29 2009, 12:31 PM...   Jan 29 2009, 07:59 AM
|- - Shard   QUOTE(roonwit @ Jan 29 2009, 07:59 AM) QU...   Jan 29 2009, 10:35 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Shard @ Jan 29 2009, 03:35 PM) QUOT...   Jan 31 2009, 07:53 AM
- - Hatun punchaw   Good point. Art can proove to provoke diverse reac...   Jan 29 2009, 12:26 PM
- - Shard   Ted Tonks is dead so it's just his Grandmother...   Jan 30 2009, 05:24 PM
- - Ginnys Phoenix   I'm afraid that although this thread is really...   Jan 31 2009, 12:28 PM
- - ChristianWizardWorld   To be honest, you'd be hard-pressed not to fin...   Jun 25 2009, 10:18 AM
- - Gandalf's Beard   I plan on reading back through all the posts on th...   Jul 20 2009, 02:13 PM
|- - Hannibal Granger   QUOTE(Gandalf's Beard @ Jul 20 2009, 03...   Aug 2 2009, 02:36 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Hannibal Granger @ Aug 2 2009, 08:3...   Aug 2 2009, 03:49 PM
- - Shard   The classic example of Deus Ex Machina was the US ...   Aug 2 2009, 03:30 PM
- - gillrichard   I am always afraid of posting in topics like this ...   Aug 2 2009, 04:35 PM
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