Why Didn't the Brilliant Dumbledore Solve the Riddle of the COS? |
 Nov 29 2007, 07:36 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 151 Joined: 1:18pm February 1, 2005 Location: Department of Mysteries   |
Dumbledore should have been able to solve the riddle of the COS back when Tom Riddle was a student and opened it the first time. He had all the information that Harry had.
He didn't have the Pensieve-like diary, but he knew it was not Aragog that did the killing by the way the victims were petrified. If Hermione could figure out it was a Basilisk, so should DD. (By the way, how did Hermy figure out that a Basilisk petrified victims if they didn't see it directly? Her book only said the looks kill.) All Harry learned from Aragog was that Hagrid was innocent and Moaning Myrtle was the victim — DD knew both of those things. DD wouldn't have kept Hagrid on if he thought he was guilty and he certainly knew who the dead student was. If Harry could spot the spiders fleeing, DD could too. Same with Hagrid mentioning the dead roosters. What if Moaning Myrtle was reluctant to talk to DD after she died? From the end of OOTP, we know DD had ways to make students talk. And even if she didn't talk at all, DD still would know to look in the girl's bathroom — both because of the water in the hall and that is where Myrtle died. We know DD spoke Parseltongue from HBP: when the Gaunts were talking in Parseltongue during the Penseive scene, DD did not ask Harry to translate. So he should have heard the Basilisk in the pipes. And he could open the COS doorway in Myrtle's bathroom. (By the way, what made Hermy think it was a Basilisk from what Harry said or that it was in the pipes? And why didn't Ron and Hermy hear anything at all why Harry heard the Parseltongue coming from the walls? Shouldn't they have heard some hissing sound, something other than ordinary castle noises?) DD didn't need to be the Heir of Slytherin to open the COS — Harry did it. Also in DH, even Ron could do it. All in all, why didn't the brilliant Dumbledore find the COS? |
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Nov 29 2007, 07:56 PM
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Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007 |
I think Dumbledore knew it was a basilisk (or at least accepted it as a possibility) because not many magical creatures can petrify, but he did not know how it moved through the castle because not being a Parselmouth himself he could not hear it in the walls. Hermione was often near Harry when he heard the basilisk or shortly after, and based on the pattern of where it could be heard had her leap of intuition that it was moving in the pipes. As for Dumbleodre's ability in Parseltongue - he could hear it when spoken by people, but only a natural Parselmouth can hear it when spoken by a snake. (In one of her post-DH interviews Rowling indicated that Dumbledore learned to understand Parseltongue - he did not have a natural ability as a Parselmouth.)
This post has been edited by Oryx: Nov 29 2007, 08:01 PM |
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 Nov 29 2007, 09:16 PM
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Official Grandmother at the Lily and Stag Inn  Posts: 2,728 Joined: 4:33pm February 27, 2007 Location: Having tea with Minerva McGonagall at Hogwarts |
Moaning Myrtle did not know who or what killed her. All she could have told Dumbledore was the location of her gaze when she died. She could have described Tom Riddle as having befriended her.
Hermione simply used logic to conclude that the petrified victims of the basilisk had to have seen it indirectly. The view had to be diluted to prevent death. I would guess that Dumbledore either did not ask the right questions or did not want to do anything to stimulate the basilisk. Dumbledore spent most of the time in his office high up in the castle. He probably spent less time near the walls with the pipes where the basilisk was moving around. A building like Hogwarts would have a wide variety of soft noises. Harry heard the serpent because he could discern the words. They stood out for him but not for others. The book is not titled Albus Dumbledore and the Chamber of Secrets. We have to give JKR some slack. -------------------- |
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Nov 29 2007, 09:39 PM
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Gambol and Japes' Research Department Posts: 1,396 Joined: 9:09am July 15, 2005 Location: behind one of the revolving doors |
I think we have to remember Dd was a teacher and not headmaster at this time. He seems to have suspicions but nothing to prove it. When a student dies, people want someone to blame. So it became easy to blame Hagrid and Aragog with litlle evidence. Afterall, the killings did stop which is what was wanted.
--------------------  Thanks Mokey thanks fwooper |
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Nov 30 2007, 10:25 AM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary  Posts: 4,714 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss. |
QUOTE The book is not titled Albus Dumbledore and the Chamber of Secrets. We have to give JKR some slack. Very apt Granjo Granger ! I found it a bit disconcerting that DD didn't find the CoS where a bunch of second-years worked it out too. But after considering many factors like the parseltongue aspect, being at the right place at the right time, opportunity, etc, it is not too strange that DD hadn't done anything about the CoS. About the chamber opening only to the heir of Slytherin, IMO it opened for Ginny as she was controlled by the diarycrux, for Harry because he had a bit of Voldemort's soul in him, and opened for Ron because he had the cupcrux with him. DD didn't have any bit of the heir of Slytherin and therefore I doubt he could have opened the CoS. The trio somehow were given the clues which they put together with intelligence, luck and pluck. Can you imagine Myrtle telling DD her story ? I can't. Even Helena Ravenclaw didn't open her mouth to anyone except Voldemort (who was charming even if he was evil) and Harry. But I got the impression that DD knew Harry had a good chance of getting rid of the monster. He gave the famous cryptic message to Harry at Hagrid's cabin before leaving the school and thereby assured Harry of assistance when he really needed it.  --------------------  |
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Nov 30 2007, 10:44 AM
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Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007 |
QUOTE About the chamber opening only to the heir of Slytherin, IMO it opened for Ginny as she was controlled by the diarycrux, for Harry because he had a bit of Voldemort's soul in him, and opened for Ron because he had the cupcrux with him. DD didn't have any bit of the heir of Slytherin and therefore I doubt he could have opened the CoS. I don't think being the heir of Slytherin had anything to do with it but the fact that he was the only natural Parselmouth in Britain in his days so he assumed all future Parselmouths would be his descendants. Anyone who could say 'open' in Parseltongue could have opened the chamber. Once Dumbledore knew Harry could speak Parseltongue naturally he should have formed a collaboration with him to locate the opening of the chamber and accompany him down into it. |
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Nov 30 2007, 01:19 PM
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Ollivander's Apprentice Posts: 1,994 Joined: 7:39pm March 11, 2007 Location: wandering in the Forbidden Forest, listening for the Phoenix song   |
QUOTE(Granjo Granger @ Nov 29 2007, 09:16 PM)  The book is not titled Albus Dumbledore and the Chamber of Secrets. We have to give JKR some slack. Well stated as usual, Granjo. I do realize the book title is "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets." However, Dumbledore did have a responsibility as headmaster to at least ensure that his students stayed alive. Taking Oryx's point above....does anyone other than myself find it a bit.....lax....that Dumbledore allowed that inept git Lockhart to be the only one to attempt to rescue Ginny? Didn't that rather condemn her to a death sentence? Or was he merely keep her life in the balance to see if a 12 year old had the potential moxie and ability to take on Voldemort one distant day in the future? These actions strain credulity. This has rather bothered me since the book came out. This post has been edited by fidelia: Nov 30 2007, 01:53 PM -------------------- *thanks, twiddlethosedials, for the siggy* |
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Nov 30 2007, 02:40 PM
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Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,606 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 4, awaiting the HBP film's release |
QUOTE Once Dumbledore knew Harry could speak Parseltongue naturally he should have formed a collaboration with him to locate the opening of the chamber and accompany him down into it. You'd think so, except that Harry wasn't about to confide in anyone, least of all the headmaster that he was hearing voices. It was bad enough three books on when Dudley said he was hearing voices, and he was much older by that time. It was just as well that Harry felt close enough to Ron and Hermione to confide in them. Actually Gilderoy Lockhart, being a fraud, wasn't going to attempt to rescue Ginny, and wouldn't have been in the position he was if he hadn't been doing so much skiting about how good he was. It was Harry and Ron who forced him to come along for the ride. Unfortunately by that time Dumbledore had gone as had Hagrid. It seems that Lucius' ploy to open the chamber of secrets and let the basilisk run amok succeeded in getting rid of both of them, just as he had succeeded in getting Arthur Weasley heavily fined over Harry's and Ron's flying the car to Hogwarts. --------------------  Check out the Beedle the Bard Book Club |
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Nov 30 2007, 04:36 PM
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Ollivander's Apprentice Posts: 1,994 Joined: 7:39pm March 11, 2007 Location: wandering in the Forbidden Forest, listening for the Phoenix song |
QUOTE(WaggaWaggaWerewolf @ Nov 30 2007, 02:40 PM) Unfortunately by that time Dumbledore had gone as had Hagrid. It seems that Lucius' ploy to open the chamber of secrets and let the basilisk run amok succeeded in getting rid of both of them, just as he had succeeded in getting Arthur Weasley heavily fined over Harry's and Ron's flying the car to Hogwarts. In my efforts to be more succinct, I appear to have been overly brief. Sorry!Yes, Lucius did a fine job (giving him his due) of getting Hagrid and Dumbledore out of Hogwarts. And that does move the plot along....Harry and Ron are left, unencumbered by oversight, to save the day. What I was referring to was when Harry, Ron, Ginny and Gilderoy returned from the Chamber, Dumbledore was there with the Weasleys. He had been re-instated once word of Ginny's capture (and impending death) was made known. What bothered me was that Dumbledore was sitting there with the Weasleys et al as the drama was playing out below. He did not take the "British ship captain" mentality of taking command once he was back on watch. He let things play out. (And that's what put my eyebrows into my hairline when I first read COS). He let the inept Lockhart continue (which, as far as he knew, was still the gameplan), which was effectively a death sentence for Ginny. And, he let Harry tackle the basilisk alone. (Surely someone saw that Harry and Ron went missing?) And the whole affair reflects rather poorly on McGonagall, Flitwick, Snape and Sprout, who let Lockhart lead the charge...... Sorry, COS is my least favorite amongst all the books.... This post has been edited by fidelia: Nov 30 2007, 09:48 PM -------------------- *thanks, twiddlethosedials, for the siggy* |
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Dec 1 2007, 03:45 AM
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Terrortours Travel Agent Posts: 6,828 Joined: 12:34pm January 24, 2007 |
QUOTE You'd think so, except that Harry wasn't about to confide in anyone, least of all the headmaster that he was hearing voices. However, Dumbledore knew Harry had heard the sounds at least once, because he Leglimensed him in that meeting in his office after Justin was petrified. He knew Harry was lying and he may have been able to get him to say more if they met again. |
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