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Discussion on WB/JKR vs. RDR/SVA - Cont'd
DorisTLC
post Feb 27 2008, 08:28 AM
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The former version of this thread was getting a bit longish, and as we'll get new information today (or possibly tomorrow) I felt it was time to start a new thread.

[slips on Ruby Red admin slippers]

Please remember that we're trying to keep this hotly debated topic as civil as possible. We ask that you remember that this thread open for discussion on the information regarding this case, and do not use this thread to personally attack anyone involved or anyone posting on this topic. This thread is here to discuss the facts on the topic at hand, and to bring about a deeper understanding for all of us.

Previous discussion links ...

Most recent thread titled WB/JKR vs. RDR/SVA
Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV
"The Impact of this suit on Fandom"

We do ask that we all remember to remain calm and fair in our discussion of this topic. We understand that this is a sensitive topic and just ask that before you post you look at your words with the eyes of an outsider.

Thanks everyone for being understanding, and we look forward to the discussion.

Doris



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davidenglish
post Feb 27 2008, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE(luna'sceiling @ Feb 28 2008, 01:35 AM) *
I have a link for the amazon listing.
Perhaps CLLA missed it, but WB doesn't appear to miss much.
That seems to be the same page as in my link. It still reads "Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock." And I'll bet that it will never come back in stock if RDR loses.

You're right, Oxymoronic. SVA shouldn't mention the case. And it's good that he didn't. But I was really struck by all the first person singular and only one "we" to refer to him and his staff.




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MaraudingDon
post Feb 27 2008, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE(davidenglish @ Feb 27 2008, 10:46 PM) *
Curiously, in these three updates the word "I" appears 24 times, "me" twice, and "we" twice. And one "we" refers to readers in general. So, what's happened to the Lexicon staff? Indeed, in the second to last update SVA puts out a call for a "good programmer". SVA used to speak in the first person plural, including his staff, quite a lot prior to this unpleasantness. And he came to their defence in late December. But I find this use of the first person singular very curious, indeed.


Why? Surely it's just good grammar. If Steve is the only one working on a particular aspect of either the website or book, then of course he will use "I". On the 3rd January, Lisa updated the "What's New?" section and used the word "I" 25 times in one post.







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davidenglish
post Feb 27 2008, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE(MaraudingDon @ Feb 28 2008, 03:15 AM) *
Why? Surely it's just good grammar. If Steve is the only one working on a particular aspect of either the website or book, then of course he will use "I". On the 3rd January, Lisa updated the "What's New?" section and used the word "I" 25 times in one post.
You're absolutely right, MaraudingDon. It's a perfectly natural way to write and I would not have noticed it except that, after having read all six years of the archived What's New (2002-2007), I certainly noticed stylistic differences. Lisa almost always speaks in the first person singular, while SVA will alternate and use "we" frequently to include the staff and all that they are doing. It showed his respect for their efforts and hard work and that's something one always looks for in a boss. His use of the first person singular this week probably means nothing more than he was working on this passage alone. You are quite right.

I confess it's probably just my overactive imagination after having read so many passages like this one from June 27, 2007:
QUOTE
We completely agree that it would be brilliant if everything was updated. Trouble is, there are about a thousand pages in the Lexicon and a complete update will be a LOT of work. We don't want to have to do it twice. So if you'll forgive us, we're waiting. In a couple of weeks, with the release of the last book, we'll start a complete update and overhaul of the entire site. We'll revise every page with the final details, we'll flag essays that are out of date (although we will very likely leave them in our essay collection, since they provide a record of fan history which we don't like to see disappear). We'll update all the pages to the new format and work on databasing everything so that it integrates into the Portkey.

If you think about it, that's the answer to another question I get quite often: What will happen to the Lexicon after the last book? Will it go away? No, it will just become more complete, more user-friendly, more integrated, and more the best Potter reference source on the planet.

So please be patient. I apologize for things which are out of date or incomplete. We'll get to it in just a few weeks.
The reason the current updates brought that to mind is that was when he announced that Fantastic Beasts and the Famous Wizards cards had been entered and added to the Portkey. So this week marks the completion of a long process. And if he's been doing it all on his own, I do applaud him. It has been a mammoth undertaking.





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Hinoema
post Feb 27 2008, 11:52 PM
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Yes, but based on past statements, it's unusual for him. He had a notable pattern of speaking almost entirely in an inclusive manner when talking about the case and claiming to be defending the staff, and now, nothing. No case talk, but also no more inclusiveness. It's odd. Good for him that someone finally told him that this isn't about PR, so quit making outrageous statements.

No papers, yet, eh?

QUOTE(dresdenfiles.fan)
This is what I meant when I asked if Steve had copied and pasted and paraphrased everything. What, if anything, did he contribute? Besides compiling all of these sources into a single spot? Compilations are not "transformative" and are generally not considered Fair Use. Taken into account, the vast majority of content belongs to Rowling, a significant amount belongs to others who hold the copyrights to their information, and an incrementally small portion belongs to Steve.


That's been my impression. There are too many ambiguous and uncredited references here to be really safe. The Lexicon may have made a good book. However, I'd recommend at least a year's good, solid work to revamp everything, rewrite a good amount of actual analytical observation,and include proper citation, for goodness sake. This is just a rush job that has potential, but not real marketability, imho. I see why Jo said she'd rather he not publish it- not fear of competition, but fear of the poor quality (as it stands) making the entire brand look bad.







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dresdenfiles.fan
post Feb 28 2008, 12:47 AM
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The real pity is that this book could have had serious potential if he'd just taken the time to add true analysis and commentary.

Example:
This is the Person/Place/Thing, here's where we saw "X", this is the context, this is the mythology, this is its purpose to the story, this is how it made me think/feel/see when I first read it but at the completion of the series this is how I now see things.

Such serious potential, for a BNF derivative work within the 'fair use' guidelines, pushed to the wayside for an infringing 'glossary'. A regurgitation of the fictional facts and no creative expressionism whatsoever.


This post has been edited by dresdenfiles.fan: Feb 28 2008, 12:48 AM


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luna'sceiling
post Feb 28 2008, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE(Hinoema @ Feb 27 2008, 11:52 PM) *
That's been my impression. There are too many ambiguous and uncredited references here to be really safe. The Lexicon may have made a good book. However, I'd recommend at least a year's good, solid work to revamp everything, rewrite a good amount of actual analytical observation,and include proper citation, for goodness sake. This is just a rush job that has potential, but not real marketability, imho. I see why Jo said she'd rather he not publish it- not fear of competition, but fear of the poor quality (as it stands) making the entire brand look bad.

Did she say something specific that you are referring to? I am not questioning you, I am just curious. Does anyone know if SVA ever met her or talked to her? That is something that I have been wondering about.

Also, did the papers have to be filed by 2/27?


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jeleyan
post Feb 28 2008, 01:01 AM
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JKR and WB have filed their reply.

Melissa is posting about it on front page.

And no, I don't believe they have ever met. I think he has expressed that he would really want to, but has never happened.
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dresdenfiles.fan
post Feb 28 2008, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE(JK Rowling)
"...feels frustrated that a “former fan” has tried to “co-opt my work for financial gain. The Harry Potter books are full of moral choices and ethical dilemmas, and, ironically, Mr. Vander Ark’s actions tend to demonstrate that he is woefully unfit to represent himself as either a ‘fan of’ or ‘expert on’ books whose spirits he seems entirely to have missed."”
All I have to say is "Ouch!"

Off to see if the documents have loaded to Justia yet...


This post has been edited by dresdenfiles.fan: Feb 28 2008, 01:19 AM


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Ilzairspar
post Feb 28 2008, 01:42 AM
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So I've got to ask dresdenfiles.fan and cbm. How does it feel to be mentioned in an official court declaration.



Edit: Because I aparently can't "speak" correctly.


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This post has been edited by Ilzairspar: Feb 28 2008, 01:45 AM


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linden swallow
post Feb 28 2008, 02:02 AM
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I'm glad to read Melissa's summary of the papers. JKR is very open about the hurt that this has caused her, which I'm glad she expressed. I also find her statement that SVA has missed the spirit of the books scathing (but in my opinion true). I'm also glad to see some analysis of The Book's [sic:) dry.gif ] shortcomings as a work of scholarship. IMO, JKR's "colloportus" is clearly derived from "colportage", for instance - my goodness! What about a little history of the concept, rather than a sorry attempt with a Latin dictionary? A fascinating word, but what he gives us is just [sorry] BS. And not even interesting (although I know, before you all tell me, that that's beside the point in determining Fair Use).

This post has been edited by linden swallow: Feb 28 2008, 02:11 AM


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