Dumbledore's Negligence, ... or is it arrogance? |
 Jan 2 2007, 12:26 AM
Post
#1
|
|
Inquiring about Double-ended Newts Posts: 980 Joined: 8:09pm February 4, 2005 Location: Brisbane, Australia  |
So much of Harry's troubles stem from one source... Dumbledore.
Why is Harry left for 10 years with relations who actively abused him? Because Dumbledore decided it was best. Why is Harry's life threatened nine times without him knowing why? Because Dumbledore doesn't tell him because he "cares" too much for Harry to help him prepare by giving him information of the most vital importance. Why has Harry only been given two years to prepare for something that very few people have ever done? Because Dumbledore chose not to give Harry more time. I do understand that Dumbledore had to think of the entire wizarding world, not just one little boy, but I believe he made unforgivable mistakes in the choices he made. And I believe the biggest mistake he made, and the first (well, with regards to the whole Harry Potter story anyway) was that he decided not to let the wizarding world in on the prophecy. I can understand he didn't want anyone forcing the prophecy to come true - but surely once LV had made his move, once Harry had made LV disappear with the failed AK curse, DD could've and should've told everyone. Nearly all of his subsequent mistakes stem from his decision to keep quiet the fact of how special and important Harry is (and had the potential to be) to the wizarding world. Dumbledore decideds that to stop baby Harry from being too big-headed and arrogant as he grows older, it would be better for him to spend the next ten years with the Dursleys. I would think that if DD had trusted at least certain other members of the wizarding world with what he knew, between them they could've offered Harry a life where he grew up knowing what and who he is, and what he might potentially have to do one day. They could then have offered gentle guidance to prevent the self-importance from taking permanent hold. That way, Harry could've made informed decisions, and offered constructive input to the potential mission. And he would've been more prepared than he was, and is. So instead, Harry lives with the Dursleys for ten years without a clue of any of that. During that ten years, the Dursleys make him go without food, they lock him in his room for days - a room that just happens to be a closet complete with spiders, they allow physical abuse at the hands of their son, he wears clothes that are way too big for him, he's small skinny and pale, his glasses are Sellotaped together, he misses school for long periods regularly. We now know that DD was aware of all of this, that he knows the Dursley's never treated Harry like a son. Why didn't DD do something - anything - to make the Dursley's at least treat Harry better? Why couldn't or didn't the wizard widely regarded as the best this century do something to prevent the horrible abuse that Harry suffered through at the Dursleys? Moreover - why did the Muggle authorities not do anything? I know that sometimes kids "fall through the cracks" of the system, but from the descriptions of Harry's home life and school life (especially when he turns his teacher's wig blue), I find the school's complete lack of interest in Harry's welfare criminal. Perhaps DD used some charm or other to prevent them noticing? To keep Harry hidden for his own welfare? At this point, Harry's life has been directly threatened once - the failed AK curse by LV (1). So Harry meets Hagrid, hears his own story, learns of the hidden magical world. Gets through his first year at Hogwarts and has his life threatened by Quirrell/Voldy (2) to round out the year. Harry asks DD the most obvious question (but not other equally obvious questions - that'd be the Dursley's "Don't ask questions" influence - made possible by Dumbledore) and is told he's too young to know just yet. Abuse at Dursleys hits a new high with Harry being locked and barred in his room. DD continues to do nothing. In CoS, Harry again finds himself facing death at the hand of Riddle/Voldy's Basilisk (3). DD later admits he thought Harry would again ask "WHY????" but he doesn't. Back at the Dursley's, Marge has teken over role of Head Torturer. Harry's life is apparently in danger yet again because Sirius Black has escaped, supposedly to kill Harry, but does anyone let Harry know this? No. Both times Harry learns anything new about his personal story during the course of PoA, he overhears it. It should be noted at this point that DD must have influenced other people not to tell Harry anything either - or surely the Weasleys would have by now, and Lupin certainly would've helped his best friend's son. The only logical reason is that DD's told them that Harry's not to know yet. Wormtail escapes, owing Harry his life, and DD learns that Harry has heard a possible prophecy from Trelawny stating that the Dark Lord's servant will escape and help bring the Dark Lord back to stronger power than before. And DD still doesn't tell Harry there's a good chance that Harry might have to face down LV at some point. Oh - and also at the end of PoA, Harry escapes not death but a Dementor's Kiss. So Harry's life has been threatened three times, with a false alarm thrown in - I count it as four, since everyone thought Sirius was after Harry and still nobody told him what was at the root of all these people trying to bump him off. We come to GoF, and finally Harry starts standing up for himself at the Dursleys to make his life bearable - Lord knows DD wasn't helping (maybe the Dursleys threatened to throw Harry to the wolves if DD didn't keep off their back hmmmmm). Straight away, we (the reader) knows that poor Harry is facing it again, and we find later that DD and Sirius have corresponded, and that both are noticing strange happenings. In addition to the strange happenings, DD knows that something happened at Mad-Eye Moody's place the night before he was due to take up his post at Hogwarts. Harry is unwittingly and unwillingly entered in the Triwizard Tournament. Hagrid tells Harry that DD is unusually distracted and very worried about Harry. OK, Harry probably knew at this point without being told that he might be in danger - mighta been nice if DD had've thought this was a good time to let Harry in on a few specifics. Meanwhile, Snape's office has been searched and Crouch Snr has turned up dead on Hogwarts grounds. Surely when Crouch Snr was found dead, DD should've realised the danger was closer to Harry than first realised and that now would be the time to spill the beans - but no. At the end of GoF, Harry goes on to face death twice more (that's if you haven't counted tasks one, two and three as Harry facing death) in the form of LV (5), and then after escaping LV, Crouch Jnr aka Moody (6). Even when DD believes Harry that LV has returned - even when Fudge indicates that there'll be no help or resources from the Ministry, DD doesn't tell Harry that his life is in extreme danger. He didn't even so much as offer a "Keep safe, Harry". At this point, DD insists on keeping quiet about the prophecy, even though the information within it would've helped the likes of Mundungus understand exactly why it was so important to protect Harry at all times. Harry gets another near-taste of the Dementor's Kiss at the start of OotP. Again, almost everyone assumes the logical conclusion that LV sent them, and that it's another attempt on his life (7) - and no-one tells Harry what's going on. By this point, I'm nearly as disgusted with the likes of the adult Weasleys, Lupin and Sirius as I am with DD. Not one of them looked at what Harry was going through and thought he'd be better off knowing - that he'd be better armed for what was coming if he knew. None of them dared disobey what we now know are DD's direct orders. And finally, at the end of OotP, Harry again nimbly pops out of Death's way twice in quick succession - the battle with the DEs in the Hall of Prophecy (8), and then when LV possessed him (9). But not before suffering the evil Umbridge's "special" quill and getting another conspicuous scar to carry for the rest of his life. So - nine times.... after nine attempts on Harry's life, DD finally decides it's time to tell Harry what he should've told him five years before. PFFFFT!!! More like 15 years! Anyway, I honestly thought Harry should've reacted a lot stronger after hearing that the reason for all this is firstly because DD thought more of the wizarding world than Harry (cold, but understandable), but then to be told that it was because DD cared too much??? Sheesh - at the very least, Harry had the right to continue smashing DD's possessions. Obviously, I believe DD should explored other options when faced with the Potter's death and Harry's future well-being. He himself says he made a mistake in not telling Harry earlier than he did. But I say he made a mistake of the whole thing. What would've happened if DD had made known the contents of the prophecy once LV had made his move and caused the first part of the prophecy to come true? Wouldn't the wizarding community have banded together more cohesively to address a possible future danger? Wouldn't they have been able to educate Harry, help prepare him for a possible future without letting ego and arrogance be a problem? At any one of the attempts on Harry's life, DD could have told the likes of McGonagall, the Weasleys, Lupin and Sirius about the prophecy and between them form a plan to help protect Harry. Instead, he chose to keep what he knew to himself and in doing so caused a whole heap of extra pressure on Harry. Certainly the death of Sirius can be squarely blamed on Harry's lack of relevant information. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if perhaps DD had his own agenda the whole time. Perhaps he got a taste of fame when he defeated Grindewald and decided it'd be a nice feather in his cap if he could knock over the next evil baddie single-handedly too. I totally believe in DD's intelligence, which is why I cannot understand his choices that make him appear short-sighted, unaware... and stupid. That's why part of me thinks DD was up to something. Cheers, Misty This post has been edited by Mistybuff: Jan 2 2007, 12:27 AM -------------------- July 21 - release date for Deathly Hallows July 21 - my birthday!! Happy birthday to me!!! |
 |
 
 
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 12:41 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 457 Joined: 6:42pm October 10, 2005 |
You have many good points. Dumbledore is quite a mystery. Both good and harsh, weak and strong, sweet and cruel. Almost like he is two people....
I have a pet theory that DD actually died years ago and Snape has been playing both roles - as DD (using polyjuice potion) and as Snape since we first see DD in front of the Dursley's home. It would explain, for one thing, why DD gave Harry to the Dursleys instead of to Sirius after the death of his parents. As far as I know, few people knew Sirius was supposed to be the Potter's secret keeper but beyond any thoughts of betrayal, Snape didn't like or trust Sirius at all from his days at school. Thus Snape would have given Harry to the Dursleys instead of Sirius while it does seem out of character for Dumbledore. Why not just give Harry to a kindly wizarding family like the Weasleys. I think that Snape needed some help in this role playing task but I don't know who. Maybe Madam Pince, maybe the house elves, maybe the ghosts. Just an idea.... This post has been edited by cjopbj: Jan 2 2007, 12:43 AM |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 12:52 AM
Post
#3
|
|
Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer Posts: 1,018 Joined: 6:58pm September 1, 2006 Location: The road less traveled by  |
QUOTE Why is Harry left for 10 years with relations who actively abused him? Because Dumbledore decided it was best. Well, actually: Why is Harry staying in the only place he can never be hurt by Voldemort forever till he is of age? Because Dumbledore decided it was best. QUOTE Why is Harry's life threatened nine times without him knowing why? Because Dumbledore doesn't tell him because he "cares" too much for Harry to help him prepare by giving him information of the most vital importance. Well, I wouldn't want to tell an eleven year old that he has to kill Voldemort or the entire Wizarding world will be become a purebreed world and inocent lives will be taken, or have Voldemort kill him. QUOTE I do understand that Dumbledore had to think of the entire wizarding world, not just one little boy, but I believe he made unforgivable mistakes in the choices he made. And I believe the biggest mistake he made, and the first (well, with regards to the whole Harry Potter story anyway) was that he decided not to let the wizarding world in on the prophecy. I can understand he didn't want anyone forcing the prophecy to come true - but surely once LV had made his move, once Harry had made LV disappear with the failed AK curse, DD could've and should've told everyone. 1) Would you really want to tell the whole wizarding world "Harry has to kill Voldemort or any one that's not pure-blood or believes Voldemort's cause will die" 2)What good will it do? Harry has to kill Voldemort by himself QUOTE Dumbledore decideds that to stop baby Harry from being too big-headed and arrogant as he grows older, it would be better for him to spend the next ten years with the Dursleys. I would think that if DD had trusted at least certain other members of the wizarding world with what he knew, between them they could've offered Harry a life where he grew up knowing what and who he is, and what he might potentially have to do one day. They could then have offered gentle guidance to prevent the self-importance from taking permanent hold. That way, Harry could've made informed decisions, and offered constructive input to the potential mission. And he would've been more prepared than he was, and is. 1) As I said before, Harry is protected 2) Harry turned out fine and normall 3) If Harry was spoiled, a possibility when not living at the Dursleys', he could have ended up like Dudly We now know that DD was aware of all of this, that he knows the Dursley's never treated Harry like a son. Why didn't DD do something - anything - to make the Dursley's at least treat Harry better? Why couldn't or didn't the wizard widely regarded as the best this century do something to prevent the horrible abuse that Harry suffered through at the Dursleys? How do we know that DD kows what's going on? Moreover - why did the Muggle authorities not do anything? I know that sometimes kids "fall through the cracks" of the system, but from the descriptions of Harry's home life and school life (especially when he turns his teacher's wig blue), I find the school's complete lack of interest in Harry's welfare criminal. Perhaps DD used some charm or other to prevent them noticing? To keep Harry hidden for his own welfare? As much as I hate the Durslys' abuse, it's not punishible abuse were Harry is. That's why J.K.R. created Children's Voice Abuse at Dursleys hits a new high with Harry being locked and barred in his room. DD continues to do nothing. Again, does he know? Harry's life is apparently in danger yet again because Sirius Black has escaped, supposedly to kill Harry, but does anyone let Harry know this? Yes, Mr.Weasley So Harry's life has been threatened three times, with a false alarm thrown in - I count it as four, since everyone thought Sirius was after Harry and still nobody told him what was at the root of all these people trying to bump him off. Still, 13 is hardly an age to tell about the future. (maybe the Dursleys threatened to throw Harry to the wolves if DD didn't keep off their back hmmmmm). Yes, I bet wolves are so much more powerfull than DD (not to mention seeing how Wolves are my favorite animals and I took two years of studding about the Dog familly, Wolves are more afraid of humans than we are and will almost always flee from humans) Harry gets another near-taste of the Dementor's Kiss at the start of OotP. Again, almost everyone assumes the logical conclusion that LV sent them, and that it's another attempt on his life (7) - and no-one tells Harry what's going on. DD defends him By this point, I'm nearly as disgusted with the likes of the adult Weasleys, Lupin and Sirius as I am with DD. Not one of them looked at what Harry was going through and thought he'd be better off knowing - that he'd be better armed for what was coming if he knew. None of them dared disobey what we now know are DD's direct orders. It was DD's choice And finally, at the end of OotP, Harry again nimbly pops out of Death's way twice in quick succession - the battle with the DEs in the Hall of Prophecy (8), and then when LV possessed him (9). But not before suffering the evil Umbridge's "special" quill and getting another conspicuous scar to carry for the rest of his life. He (Harry) decided not to DD about either happenings What would've happened if DD had made known the contents of the prophecy once LV had made his move and caused the first part of the prophecy to come true? Wouldn't the wizarding community have banded together more cohesively to address a possible future danger? Wouldn't they have been able to educate Harry, help prepare him for a possible future without letting ego and arrogance be a problem? Again, Harry has to do it himself. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if perhaps DD had his own agenda the whole time. Perhaps he got a taste of fame when he defeated Grindewald and decided it'd be a nice feather in his cap if he could knock over the next evil baddie single-handedly too. I totally believe in DD's intelligence, which is why I cannot understand his choices that make him appear short-sighted, unaware... and stupid. That's why part of me thinks DD was up to something. Let's all remember DD is human, humans make mistakes. ETA: I bold-ed some of Mistybuff's post just to make sure I didn't pass the number of quote tags that are allowed in one post ETA:cjopbj, that is inpossible as we see DD and SS many times at the same place in the same time. This post has been edited by Snufflespup: Jan 2 2007, 02:21 AM -------------------- "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." -Mark Twain |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 02:15 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Inquiring about Double-ended Newts Posts: 980 Joined: 8:09pm February 4, 2005 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
QUOTE Well, actually: Why is Harry staying in the only place he can never be hurt by Voldemort forever till he is of age? Because Dumbledore decided it was best OK, I'll give ya that. The Dursleys were the strongest protection DD could give Harry at the time. And yes, futher on you state that Harry turns out fine, and I agree with that too. It was a big chance to take though, when the fate of the wizarding world was in the balance. Or do you think that perhaps DD thought that maybe the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and that Harry's main danger was from the remaining DEs? What harm would it have done DD to ensure that Harry was not only safe, but happy? Surely there was a big risk that while the Dursleys didn't squash the magic out of Harry, they might have produced a Harry that was angry and rebellious, a Harry who didn't care if he saved the wizarding world... after all, what had the wizarding world ever given Harry... etc etc. Harry could very easily have become a person that told DD to take a flying jump. Maybe DD allowed the misery in Harry's life to continue in hopes that it would make him more likely to agree to take whatever alternative was offered him. Harry might not have been so quick to abandon the Muggle world if it were a happy, safe place for him. QUOTE How do we know that DD kows what's going on? DD tells the Dursleys himself in HBP that he left a letter asking them to raise Harry as their son and that he knows they didn't. In addition to that, I doubt very much that DD would leave Mrs Figg to watch over Harry if he didn't intend on getting reports back from her as to how Harry was getting on. DD also tells Harry at the end of OotP that he knew he was condemning Harry to ten dark and difficult years, and that he had watched Harry more closely than Harry could possibly realise. We also know that DD collects information. Something as valuable and important as Harry Potter wouldn't be dumped and forgotten for ten years. He was watching Harry, gathering whatever information he thought might help - that is... everything! He knew what was going on. Even the stuff that happened during school holidays.QUOTE Well, I wouldn't want to tell an eleven year old that he has to kill Voldemort or the entire Wizarding world will be become a purebreed world and inocent lives will be taken, or have Voldemort kill him... 13 is the age if LV is going to come after you at age 14. Age 15 is kinda late to be getting warnings when the future you're too young to know about is about to be drastically shortened... as is the case with Harry. His life has been in danger on some level since he was born, and yes, maybe it's kinder not to give a child that kind of burden, but I guess I see it as better to have the burden at 11 and get to experience your future firsthand.Still, 13 is hardly an age to tell about the future... To give DD credit here, there's no way that he knew the most exclusive piece of information the same as we readers do.... that the final confrontation would take place in the year after Harry turns 17. Perhaps if DD knew that "some day" was so near, he might have felt differently about placing such a burden on a child. I guess that's why I feel this way about this part of it... we know how soon Harry has to face LV. And if my child had to fight for his life at age 17, then yeah... I have no problem burdening them at age 11 if it helps them see 18.... and 19.... etc. QUOTE As much as I hate the Durslys' abuse, it's not punishible abuse were Harry is. That's why J.K.R. created Children's Voice I wasn't aware of that. Doesn't make the abuse any less dispicable.QUOTE 1) Would you really want to tell the whole wizarding world "Harry has to kill Voldemort or any oe that's not pure-blood or believes Voldemort's cause will die" 1) Again, knowing what I do about when it's gonna go down, I might not want to tell the wizarding world, but if I thought it would help, then that's what I'd have to do. Do you imagine that any world leader wants to send their countries to war? No - but when their country is under threat, that's what they do. And a smart leader makes sure the public knows what's going on... maybe not particulars, but definitely an idea. Besides, DD doesn't appear to have taken anybody into confidence, until and except Harry.2)What good will it do? Harry has to kill Voldemort by himself 2) That's true - it's Harry that has to take out LV. Prophecy didn't say anything about who could kill DEs though, especially DEs who are out to protect their Master at all costs, and to clear his way. On the side of evil you have LV and his DEs - all of who have the general idea on their mission, if not the specifics. On the side of good you have Albus Dumbledore until he had no choice but to include Harry. And now that DD's dead, any additional information is possibly gone too (I haven't discounted the portrait). There's no-one else who knows what DD knew, no-one to pass it on to Harry (again, I haven't discounted DD himself through the portrait). No-one to come forth with useful information because they didn't know it was useful to the mission - because they didn't know about the mission... Does that even make sense?  lolJust seems like an irresponsible move to protect the wizarding world, not to mention it's champion, that's all.. Like you said, he's human and humans make mistakes. It just seems to me that a lot of those mistakes seem very very confusing given DD's intelligence. Perhaps it's the caring that is unfamiliar to him. I mean that as - he's used to caring for people, obviously, but perhaps not as intimately as he cares for Harry. Perhaps Harry is the first person in a long long time that DD has held so dear, and this clouds his intelligence? QUOTE Dumbledore is quite a mystery. Both good and harsh, weak and strong, sweet and cruel. Almost like he is two people.... Exactly!! That's why he's my favourite character, even while he's the one that infuriates me the most lol.Cheers, Misty -------------------- July 21 - release date for Deathly Hallows July 21 - my birthday!! Happy birthday to me!!! |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 02:35 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Knight Bus Driver in Training Posts: 600 Joined: 11:58pm December 4, 2006 Location: Alberta! |
I don't think DD told the wizarding world that Harry was the Chosen One because he didn't think it was terribly important.
No wait, hear me out... What if Harry had grown up angry, rebellious, self-centered, with no intention of saving anyone besides himself? What if Harry had been sorted into Slytherin House and hooked up with Draco Malfoy? What if Harry had fallen out of that tree Aunt Marge's dog chased him up and broken his neck? Then the Prophecy would be worthless. Harry is not the Chosen One *because* of the Prophecy. He is the one capable of bringing down Voldemort because of who he is. Because he's had the life he's had and is still capable of love. If he wasn't the person he is, the Prophecy would be worthless. DD doesn't put a great deal of store in the Prophecy, and he spends a good four pages of HBP trying to hammer its significance out of Harry's thick head (and ours). Harry doesn't *have* to do anything to Voldemort -- he's making a choice that he is capable of making because he is that person that he is. DD wasn't in the position of telling a young boy that he would *have* to kill Voldemort -- he was watching a young boy grow up who would one day have the ability to destroy Voldemort -- not the obligation, but the unique tools and motivation. I can see why he didn't want to tell him about this looming choice until he was sure the Prophecy wasn't worthless. ;) -------------------- 'Now, we'll go upstairs really quietly, and wait for Mum to call us for breakfast. Then, Ron, you come bounding down the stairs going, "Mum, look who turned up in the night!" and she'll be all pleased to see Harry and no one need ever know we flew the car.'
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 02:43 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer Posts: 1,018 Joined: 6:58pm September 1, 2006 Location: The road less traveled by |
Wait a sec., just one thing about childrens voice, I explained it wrong. Of course it's punishible, and not just were Harry lives, everywere. It's about the treatment of youngs wealthfare and such. I'm bad at explaining. The site's here
QUOTE DD tells the Dursleys himself in HBP that he left a letter asking them to raise Harry as their son and that he knows they didn't. In addition to that, I doubt very much that DD would leave Mrs Figg to watch over Harry if he didn't intend on getting reports back from her as to how Harry was getting on. DD also tells Harry at the end of OotP that he knew he was condemning Harry to ten dark and difficult years, and that he had watched Harry more closely than Harry could possibly realise. We also know that DD collects information. Something as valuable and important as Harry Potter wouldn't be dumped and forgotten for ten years. He was watching Harry, gathering whatever information he thought might help - that is... everything! He knew what was going on. Even the stuff that happened during school holidays. Well, you got me their QUOTE Like you said, he's human and humans make mistakes. It just seems to me that a lot of those mistakes seem very very confusing given DD's intelligence. Perhaps it's the caring that is unfamiliar to him. I mean that as - he's used to caring for people, obviously, but perhaps not as intimately as he cares for Harry. Perhaps Harry is the first person in a long long time that DD has held so dear, and this clouds his intelligence? yes, that could be it, but also DD has never (to what we know) have to look over a prophecy deciding the future of the whole world. To me, to everyone, that is lot on shoulders. -------------------- "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." -Mark Twain |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 04:10 AM
Post
#7
|
|
Gambol and Japes' Research Department Posts: 1,365 Joined: 7:01pm January 27, 2006 Location: Sneaking food from the kitchens |
I think you raise some valid points here, Mistybuff, but there are some things that just don't really work for me.
First, as has been mentioned before, Harry had no choice but to live with the the Dursleys. It is the only place where he would have the protection he needed. Even though he is mistreated, he is still protected from what harm may come his way. I think Dumbledore does dislike the way Harry was treated, but felt that the mistreatment didn't justify nulling the protection the enchantments provided. The second thing I want to bring up is related to this. If the prophecy is made known to the wizarding world, how much more harm do you think would come Harry's way? While there are many good people in the wizarding world, there are also others who are plain evil. If the entire wizarding world knew the whole contents of the prophecy, that would put Harry not only in more spotlight than he already is, but would also put a bigger target on his back. Those loyal to Voldemort would come after Harry and try to kill him, knowing that he has this power to "vanquish the Dark Lord." You ask why the Weasleys, Lupin, Sirius, McGonagall, etc. don't tell Harry what he needs to know and the answer is because they don't know themselves. As DD says, there are only two people in the world who know the full content of the prophecy, himself and Harry (and Ron and Hermione come later on). None of the other adutls know what the prophecy actually says, and that's why they don't bring it up to Harry. Also, I'm sure DD told them that he would tell Harry at some point. This was most likely a mistake on DD's part, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20. I think DD regrets this very much. Yes, Dumbledore did make mistakes and I'm am sure that he regretted them. We see this in the cave in HBP when he is drinking the potion that forces him to relive something. He is full of regrets for the mistakes he has made. But to put the bulk of the blame on Harry's troubles on Dumbledore is going a little far in my opinion. Let's not forget that Dumbledore was only responding to the terrible situation that Voldemort created. -------------------- You got no time for the messenger, Got no regard for the thing that you don't understand. You got no fear of the underdog, That's why you will not survive. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 06:28 AM
Post
#8
|
|
Gringotts Goblin Translator Posts: 1,218 Joined: 1:06am September 20, 2005 Location: The Melbourne Magical Menagerie (Australia)  |
QUOTE(Mistybuff @ Jan 2 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]1049617[/snapback] And I believe the biggest mistake he made, and the first... was that he decided not to let the wizarding world in on the prophecy. I can understand he didn't want anyone forcing the prophecy to come true - but surely once LV had made his move, once Harry had made LV disappear with the failed AK curse, DD could've and should've told everyone. But DD would have known that LV wasn't gone forever; even Hagrid thinks that such a concept is "codswallop." If the entire world had known the prophecy, then the moment that LV returned his DEs would have informed him of the second half, and Harry would lose his one advantage. Also, can you imagine how poor Harry would have grown up if he'd known about the prophecy from a young age? It'd leave incredible emotional scarring on a child to tell them that one day they would have to be a murderer or be murdered, and that the fate of the world rested in their hands. And how would other people treat Harry? He would be treated as the messiah; people would expect him to miraculously solve all of their problems. It would be so much worse than just "The Boy Who Lived." Can you imagine his first ride to Hogwarts if everyone knew the prophecy; it'd be enough to drive the poor kid insane! He has to cope with all the "Chosen One" stuff as it is, at age 17... can you imagine if the rumours were actually confirmed and he was only a kid? No, I think that letting the prophecy out as general knowledge would have had disastrous effects for both the long-term war effort and for Harry's own development and happiness. -------------------- PS: I do hope we've put enough stamps on
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 08:21 AM
Post
#9
|
|
Newest Housekeeper at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 731 Joined: 8:38am July 28, 2005 Location: Illinois |
I dont believe for one second that Harry has turned out just fine. He has dealt with abuse and continuing abuse his whole life. What the Dursleys have done is unforgivable. Harry will suffer with the after affects his whole life (if he lives through the aftermath of Deathly Hallows). When he is an adult and has children of his own his parenting style will be based on how he is raised. The fear of treating his own children the way the Dursleys did his will be first and foremost. He has suffered things that no other child should face and that is because of DD. DD could have done something, intervened somehow on Harrys behalf to stop the abuse but he didnt. Harry did not grow up normally at all. Harry has rarely seen happiness, has never known what it is like to have a family. He has suffered more than he ever should have and it still continues.
I realize that it DD kept certain information from Harry because of his age however that does not mean that DD did the correct thing. Harry should have been warned, told of some facts so that Harry could be made aware that his life was in continous danger. He should have been told more. Now Harry is getting ready to fight Voldemort for the last time and he still doesnt have all the facts. DD has put Harrys life in danger by not telling him the truth. DD may have thought he was protecting him but all he has dont was protect him from the truth and put his life in more danger. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2007, 12:20 PM
Post
#10
|
|
Forever an Honorary Gallery Goddess Posts: 3,035 Joined: 10:34am July 9, 2005 Location: swapping knitting patterns with Dumbledore |
QUOTE(Mistybuff @ Jan 2 2007, 01:15 AM) [snapback]1049687[/snapback] 13 is the age if LV is going to come after you at age 14. Age 15 is kinda late to be getting warnings when the future you're too young to know about is about to be drastically shortened... as is the case with Harry. His life has been in danger on some level since he was born, and yes, maybe it's kinder not to give a child that kind of burden, but I guess I see it as better to have the burden at 11 and get to experience your future firsthand. To give DD credit here, there's no way that he knew the most exclusive piece of information the same as we readers do.... that the final confrontation would take place in the year after Harry turns 17. Perhaps if DD knew that "some day" was so near, he might have felt differently about placing such a burden on a child. I think that's exactly why Dumbledore waited to tell Harry about the prophecy... He didn't know how much time he would have and he didn't want to burden Harry with this terrible knowledge. Dumbledore's own words in his defense (page 839, OotP, US edition): "My only defense is this: I have watched you struggling under more burdens than any student who has ever passed through this scchool, and I could not bring myself to add another - the greatest one of all." There's no way he could've known how much time Harry would have before the final confrontation or how much time he had left in the world to help. I think he did all he could (especially in the time he was alotted after the revelation of the prophecy to Harry) in educating Harry about Voldemorts past and the remaining horcruxes and what needed to be done. We also know Dumbledore was not just sitting idly by while he waited for the right time to tell Harry of the prophecy. He worked to gather knowledge on Voldemort to learn what the horcruxes might be and where they might be which will hopefully be a huge help for Harry in Deathly Hallows. QUOTE(pixey @ Jan 2 2007, 07:21 AM) [snapback]1049841[/snapback] I realize that it DD kept certain information from Harry because of his age however that does not mean that DD did the correct thing. Harry should have been warned, told of some facts so that Harry could be made aware that his life was in continous danger. On top of having to live with the Dursley's I think that would've been too much for Harry. Knowing that his life was in 'continuous danger'... constantly worrying about what might happen next, who might try to kill him next. Harry needed to be able to cope with everyday ordinary things also, like his schooling and actually learning magic. Can you imagine the pressure of knowing he's the Chosen One? Knowing he's got to defeat a very powerful, evil wizard? And on top of that having to learn your basic magic spells! QUOTE(pixey @ Jan 2 2007, 07:21 AM) [snapback]1049841[/snapback] He should have been told more. Now Harry is getting ready to fight Voldemort for the last time and he still doesnt have all the facts. DD has put Harrys life in danger by not telling him the truth. DD may have thought he was protecting him but all he has dont was protect him from the truth and put his life in more danger. "The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution." I think Dumbledore acted with Harry's best interest at heart. I don't think he meant any harm or danger to Harry, in fact he meant to protect him from it. He's Harry's greatest protector. He's always been there when Harry needed him most. Touching on why Dumbledore left Harry with the Dursley's he does have a defense for this as well. On page 835 of OotP (US edition) he tells Harry of why he left Harry with the Dursley's: "My answer is that my priority was to keep you alive. You were in more danger than perhaps anyone but myself realized. Voldemort had been vanquished hours before, but his supporters -- and many of them are almost as terrible as he -- were still at large, angry, desperate, and violent. And I had to make my decision too with regard to the years ahead. Did I believe that Voldemort was gone forever? No. I knew not whether it would be ten, twenty, or fifty years before he returned, but I was sure he would do so, and I was sure too, knowing him as I have done, that he would not rest until he killed you." He goes on to tell Harry of the ancient magic that protects him while he's living with his mother's only living relative. As has been mentioned already, Dumbledore did feel terrible guilt about not telling Harry about the prophecy sooner, but he did have his reasons... Chapter 37 of Order of the Phoenix is filled with Dumbledore's explanations... This post has been edited by ~Mrs.Brisby~: Jan 2 2007, 12:23 PM -------------------- "J.K. Rowling has set the standard: It's a high one, and God bless her for it."
-Stephen King avatar from here |
|
|
|
