Etymology; Ety-who-logy?, The fun kind of -ology! |
 Mar 3 2009, 12:48 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Hosting Movie Nights at the Lily and Stag Inn  Posts: 1,827 Joined: 4:51pm December 21, 2006 Location: Swimming in a sea of stars...   |
Etymology; Ety-who-logy? The fun kind of -ology!  "I am a bit of a name freak. [...] I collect them. You know, if I hear a good name, I have got to write it down. And it will probably crop up somewhere." -- J. K. Rowling (Larry King Live, October 20, 2000) To the astute reader, it's clear that the names given to the characters that grace J.K. Rowling's novels are more than simple monikers. And it's not just the characters themselves - the places, objects, and spells that we encounter are meant to enthrall us and drag us deeper into her magical world. Names that carry meanings give us insight into the languages, places, and people that may have had an affect on the author. Even more so, they give us another layer of meaning when it comes to the character, object, or place in question. What can we learn about places and characters just from their names, from their sources or origins? How do names add a layer of complexity to the story? That's what we're aiming to find out. However, as many of you may be at your wit's end when approaching this subject, please, grab a keyboard, and take a seat!  All it takes is a little research! A quick Google search can yield oodles of information; other sources that may be helpful include: Wikpedia and Namespedia.As we delve deeper into Goblet of Fire over the next few months, we'll be sure to meet many fascinating people, all with equally fascinating names. But before we get too deep into the story, let's take a moment to tackle the basic characters who we're reminded of in the first few chapters, and those who we've met already. I'll get us going with one. In the same interview quoted above, JKR said: Dumbledore means -- dumbledore is an old English dialect word for bumblebee, because he is a musical person. And I imagine him humming to himself all the time. So, with that as our starting point, jump right in! Let's begin by looking at some of the characters we met even before GoF got going... What can you find regarding:
We'll move on after a bit to some of the newer characters or places we've come across so far in GoF, but if inspiration strikes, feel free to share! If there's a name you're particularly curious about, ask away! Even if you find a meaning, but can't see how it relates, let us know - we can decipher it together. -------------------- |
 |
  
 
|
|
Mar 4 2009, 03:11 PM
Post
#2
|
|
Transfiguration Today's Star Reporter  Posts: 2,011 Joined: 3:59pm May 15, 2008 Location: Sunny Phoenix, Arizona("It's a Dry Heat!")  |
Well, I'm going to start this off with what I recall from an earlier thread.
Since Hedwig, Harry's owl is a favorite of mine, I will share that there is a Saint Hedwig who is a Patron Saint of Orphans. Very appropriate name for the owl Hedwig, who becomes a companion to Harry Potter, an orphan. -------------------- "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phoenix avatar courtesy of ofenjen; thanks to atschpe for help |
|
|
|
|
Mar 5 2009, 12:31 AM
Post
#3
|
|
Director of Kneazle Rescue Organization  Posts: 76 Joined: 1:52pm December 27, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL |
Well I don't have time to delve into this right now because I should've been in bed a half hour ago (I was falling asleep watching Dollhouse at a friend's house!), but I just want to say that I'm excited for this topic! Etymology is one of my favourite subjects and I have to say, as a writer, I make sure to pick names that historically and meaningfully match my characters!
So... I will pick apart some names later! |
|
|
|
|
Mar 5 2009, 11:14 AM
Post
#4
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man  Posts: 11,070 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
To use one of the names given as examples, I love how JKR used astronomy like with Sirius. But, I had so many theories based on positions of stars or their constellations, to *prove* that Sirius couldnt possibly be dead
 It becomes apparent almost immediately in HP that JKR has put a lot of thought into the names she gives people or places, like she hasnt just read the phonebook and picked out random names. So, it puzzles me in some translations how they choose to translate some names while they dont translate others, and of those names that were translated some were simply changed to better fit the language. Like Oliver Wood's name is translated so as to keep the *joke* or misunderstanding on Harry's part, about him fearing being in for a beating. But, DDs name is not translated at all, so all the significance of the bumblebee is lost. And, Snape is one of the most translated names but in many languages he's simply given an *evil sounding* name  I know we're not talking about the translations so I'll go be quiet but, when JKR has obviously put so much effort into choosing names it seems bizarre that this is pretty much dismissed in the translations of HP. 
--------------------   I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
|
|
|
|
Mar 5 2009, 11:34 AM
Post
#5
|
|
Inquiring about Double-ended Newts Posts: 987 Joined: 9:17am June 21, 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada  |
Oh no you di'int!!
I'm the kind of geek/freak who has etymonline.com as a search function on her toolbar. Yeah. This is gonna be fun! Peter Pettigrew The name Pettigrew comes from the ancient Norman culture that was established in Britain after the Conquest of 1066. It was a name for a small man. The name was originally derived from the Old French words "petit," meaning "small or little," and "cru," meaning "growth." (from Houseofnames.com) Peter Pettigrew is one of the smallest men in terms of character that we see in Harry Potter. This is, I think, perfectly suited. Also, Peter is the disciple of Christ that denied him - pretended he didn't know him. Pettigrew is, in short, a denier. He denies ratting out James, he denies ever being unfaithful to Voldemort. Voldemort/ Tom Riddle This one's been done so many times, but still fun! The trick to 'Voldemort' is in the french. There are two ways to look at it. Mort means death or dead. 'De' is the proposition of, or from. And vol... that's our interesting part. It can mean both fly and steal. Many people see Voldemort as 'flee from death'. I think it's just as interesting to read it as 'one who steals from death'. As for Tom Riddle, we know that Tom doesn't like his common first name. And his last name really sums up the Chamber of Secrets, doesn't it? Riddle, secrets... it's also a very English name, whereas Voldemort is very French. Harry Potter Harry is a great name - it's both informal and very English. There's something very comforting about it. Plus there's the play on words that one of Harry's defining characteristics is his black hair that never stays flat. As for Potter, it's another familiar and normal name. I think it's amusing that Jo gives celebrity to a name that, really, sounds perfectly unremarkable on its own. Ron Weasley, his family The Weasleys. Many have talked about how it comes from 'weasel'. Especially with their home being called 'The Burrow', and Hermione's patronus being an otter (which looks like a weasel) and Arthur's which IS a weasel. But weasel, as a name, seems as distasteful as it gets. After all, Draco's being a ferret isn't too far off being a weasel. Perhaps Jo wanted to paint a richness behind an easily-dismissible exterior... in normal talk, look beyond the outside and see the person/people within. Hermione Granger Once again, Jo's love of the classics comes out! Some people have drawn comparisons with Hermione and Hermes, the Greek messenger god who is a bit of a trickster. Honestly? I think she just picked it because she liked it. As for Granger, it's French again. Grange is a farmer's field (grange/grain?) and so Granger would be the farmer. Perhaps the Granger reminds us that Hermione is never afraid to put in a good day of solid work. Or maybe it's simply a good last name that caught Jo's attention. Sirius Black She got creative with this one! Sirius is the brightest star in the sky, and it's found in the constellation Canis Major (the big dog). Interestingly enough (this came up with the 'Who is RAB?' search), his Uncle Arcturus is named after the third brightest star in the sky. Hence, Regulus' middle name. It's interesting, the contrast between the names. First name is the brightest star in the sky, the second name is black. Sirius is a moody guy, who can go from laughing and calm to anger and rage at the drop of a hat. In Greek, 'Sirius' comes from the word 'seirios' which means 'burning'. Stick that in your cauldron and stir it. Vernon, Petunia, Dudley Dursley Have you ever grown petunias? They are NOT my favourite flower. First of all, ironically, they make a mess and need constant clean-up and deadheading. Second of all, while they look lovely and prolific, they do not smell wonderful nor do they feel wonderful. Kinda rubbery. And they bruise and get destroyed so easily... Anyway, besides that. Dudley, to me, is hilarious. You get that 'dud' at the beginning that makes it laughable. It's also very British, which you can imagine makes his parents proud. Just like Vernon, it's an aristocratic name. Same with Dursley. We see that 'ley' at the end of the Weasleys too, who we find out later ARE actually pure-bloods and track back a ways. What a contrast, though! Draco Malfoy, Narcissa and Lucius Let's start with Malfoy. Once again, French. What is with Jo and the French names for bad guys?? Mal means 'bad', and foi means 'faith'. Doesn't that just sum them up? Their hearts are in the right places, but they put faith in the wrong things. Lucius is great - it's a tip of the hat to Lucifer, the bringer of light (lux, luces means light). It's also very, very Roman and has that touch of Senator Imperator grandeur. Draco is interesting. We first think 'dragon!' but Draco can also be translated into lizard. And it has ties to demonology, just like his father. And finally, Narcissa is pure Greek myth again. It's the female form of Narcissus, the greek man who fell in love with his own reflection and turned into a flower (daffodil-like). Perhaps Narcissa is just that, a person who just watches and never actually does anything? Interestingly enough, I've always found that translations are the greatest part of names. This was how most people found confidence in RAB before the HBP came out - that last initial changed, depending on the language translation of Sirius' last name. Cool, eh? I promise to go home and check my Catalan version of PS and see what I can find! Other cool translations: In the Mainland and Taiwanese versions, the first character in 'Dudley' is the same character, shown in simplified and traditional variants. Together, the two characters of Dudley's name mean 达 / 達 'attain' + 力 'power'. (there are many more! Go here: http://www.cjvlang.com/Hpotter/names.html) -------------------- "How do you spell 'belligerent'?" said Ron, shaking his quill very hard while staring at his parchment. "It can't be B-U-M-?"
"No, it isn't," said Hermione, pulling Ron's essay toward her. "And 'augury' doesn't begin O-R-G- either. What kind of quill are you using?" "The Unknowable Room", HBP |
|
|
|
|
Mar 5 2009, 01:04 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Hosting Movie Nights at the Lily and Stag Inn Posts: 1,827 Joined: 4:51pm December 21, 2006 Location: Swimming in a sea of stars... |
Wow, what thoughtful posts! I'm so excited to dive into this with all of you. Let's spend a bit more time on these first names, then we'll move on to some others. We've hit many important definitions in the above posts, but if you see any other interpretations or meanings, please jump in. Even if you just want to think through how a name relates throughout the series, go ahead!
Oh, and I forgot in my original post, but I was meaning to include the house names... Can anyone find anything on Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, and Slytherin? Okay, now let's see what we got. Fricka, I was so interested to see what you shared regarding Hedwig  - I had never heard that before. The Patron Saint of Orphans - of course! Makes perfect sense! Faerenach, I'm so happy to see a fellow enthusiast of this subject. You found some wonderful meanings! I really found interesting what you said about Pettigrew, Voldemort (I'm particularly fascinated with the double meaning!), I just want to comment on a few others... Harry Potter, you pointed out that it's "very English" - and I couldn't agree more. The last name, Potter, reflects the tradition of English names showing an ancestors history; in this case, the family would have been potters. This is a tradition that marks our hero out as normal - something he most definitely is not!  I agree with you that the Weasley's name differs a bit from its usual connotations. Weasels are typically regarded as nasty, sneaky creatures - not loving, familiar ones! However, the very sound of the name - which I think is an important part of a names' significance, sounds comforting... weeeesssslllleeeeyy sounds like a deep breath, in and out. In this sense, I still think it's fitting for this lovely family. As for Hermione, you brought up the connection to Hermes, but I wanted to share the source I belive Jo got the name from... Courtesy the transcript on Accio Quote, here, in the National Press Club's author luncheon, broadcast on NPR, 1999, Jo stated (When answering the question "How did you come up with [Hermione's] name",): QUOTE Um ... it just seemed to suit her somehow. It's a name from Shakespeare. It's in 'A Winter's Tale'. Um ... although my Hermione bears very little relation to *that* Hermione, but it just seemed the sort of name that a pair of professional dentists, who liked to prove how clever they were ... do you know what I mean ... gave their daughter a nice, unusual name that no-one could pronounce! I mean, parents do that! Um ... and I ... and I did want in, in truth, I wanted quite an unusual name for her because I think there are quite a lot of girls like Hermione, I was a girl like Hermione, and I, it crossed my mind as I was writing that without ever, knowing that I was ever going to be published, that if I ever was published I didn't want to give her a common name, you know, just in case somewhere out there, there was a Jane with big front teeth who was really swotty and annoying. Just thought, just thought that might not be a good idea. So, Shakespeare! Once again, Jo is showing her classical roots. As you have pointed out, many of her names come from French, which I think shows her classical British education.Okay, since this is turning into a full out dissertation on my part, I'm just going to say that I enjoyed what you said about Sirius, the Dursleys, and the Malfoys (particularly them - I had never heard an explanation of their last name, but "bad faith" is very fitting!) MooseStarr and Faerenach both, I find translations particularly interesting as well! I think translating novels is something that is extremely difficult to do well. I still remember author John Green talking about the attempt to translate the word "string" which is very important in his novel Paper Towns into German - they have several words depending on an instrument string, balloon string, etc, whereas we have only one, which works metaphorically. Anyway, my point is, languages are very intricate and attempting to translate them is like staring them right in the face! If you have any interesting observations to share about translations as we discuss character and place names, feel free to share them! -------------------- |
|
|
|
|
Mar 5 2009, 02:38 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Transfiguration Today's Star Reporter Posts: 2,011 Joined: 3:59pm May 15, 2008 Location: Sunny Phoenix, Arizona("It's a Dry Heat!") |
Oooh great discussion, everbody! And, since faerenach has got me thinking about Jo's use of French, here's another name that will be cropping up shortly in GOF:
Fleur Delacour. Fleur, pretty obviously, is French for "Flower"; de is "of" or "from" and Cour could be either heart or court. So, depending on what ending you prefer, her full name means "Flower of the Heart," or "Flower of the Court". (I tend to like the first one, as I think she is Bill Weasley's "Flower of the Heart.") -------------------- "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phoenix avatar courtesy of ofenjen; thanks to atschpe for help |
|
|
|
|
Mar 5 2009, 03:30 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Ollivander's Apprentice Posts: 1,981 Joined: 7:39pm March 11, 2007 Location: wandering in the Forbidden Forest, listening for the Phoenix song |
QUOTE(faerenach @ Mar 5 2009, 11:34 AM)  Voldemort/ Tom Riddle This one's been done so many times, but still fun! The trick to 'Voldemort' is in the french. There are two ways to look at it. Mort means death or dead. 'De' is the proposition of, or from. And vol... that's our interesting part. It can mean both fly and steal. Many people see Voldemort as 'flee from death'. I think it's just as interesting to read it as 'one who steals from death'. Crikey, Faerenach, that's an amazing post you had above! Love it!  Your post on Voldemort is fascinating. Personally, I've always translated it as "flight from death", as I've always rather thought that's what old Tom was doing in the end.  That said, translating it as one who "steals from death" is equally fascinating. That puts a different spin on the name altogether. It put me in mind of "The Tale of the Three Brothers" almost immediately. Voldemort is, as we know, obsessed with the Elder Wand, one of the three Deathly Hallows. He is quite literally trying to "steal from Death", much as the three brothers in the tale tried to humiliate Death by taking from him. Voldemort is trying to steal from Death by making himself both immortal (horcruxes) and all-powerful (searching out the Elder Wand). He is out to prove himself above all natural (and unnatural) forces, and will take what is due Death in the end....respect, acceptance, and a commonality which we all share. I remember well that Voldemort hated the name "Tom Riddle", as it was common, and there were too many who were also named Tom. Voldemort always refused to share in anything which binds humanity together, and I suppose trying to cheat Death of its due is just one more way of showing that he will not undergo any experience which is a unifier in the human condition. This post has been edited by fidelia: Mar 5 2009, 03:34 PM -------------------- *thanks, twiddlethosedials, for the siggy* |
|
|
|
|
Mar 6 2009, 12:09 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Director of Kneazle Rescue Organization Posts: 76 Joined: 1:52pm December 27, 2008 Location: Chicago, IL |
Okay, once again I'm making it on here when I should've been in bed a long time ago... so this will be quick. I just wanted to bring up the comment that I always thought it was interesting that Lily and Petunia were both named after flowers. Lilies are usually seen as the more pleasant and exotic flower; petunias are common and not as pretty. From the first time I read book one, I've always had that comparison in the back of my mind.
There... not too insightful, but it's late. 
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 6 2009, 12:53 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Inquiring about Double-ended Newts Posts: 987 Joined: 9:17am June 21, 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada |
QUOTE(fuchsiarascal @ Mar 6 2009, 12:09 AM) Okay, once again I'm making it on here when I should've been in bed a long time ago... so this will be quick. I just wanted to bring up the comment that I always thought it was interesting that Lily and Petunia were both named after flowers. Lilies are usually seen as the more pleasant and exotic flower; petunias are common and not as pretty. From the first time I read book one, I've always had that comparison in the back of my mind. There... not too insightful, but it's late. Hee hee... they're flower children!! (Too early for that, I think, but it's an interesting idea anyway...) I think it's also interesting to note that while petunias are annual plants (you have to put them in every year), lilies are perennial and come up by themselves every year. Jo uses flowers and plants a lot, actually. Fleur, Lavender, Pansy, Ginny (short for Ginevra, which is really Juniper), Poppy, Florean and technically even Narcissa... This post has been edited by faerenach: Mar 6 2009, 12:59 PM -------------------- "How do you spell 'belligerent'?" said Ron, shaking his quill very hard while staring at his parchment. "It can't be B-U-M-?"
"No, it isn't," said Hermione, pulling Ron's essay toward her. "And 'augury' doesn't begin O-R-G- either. What kind of quill are you using?" "The Unknowable Room", HBP |
|
|
|
