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Expelled, What does the future hold for an expelled Hogwarts student?

paint it Black View Member Profile	Jun 15 2009, 02:06 AM Post #1
DDD's Protege Posts: 757 Joined: 10:49am March 13, 2009 Location: On the Horizon	Throughout their adventure-filled years at Hogwarts, somehow Harry, Ron and Hermione (not to mention James and Sirius and the Weasley twins) managed to not get expelled, although Harry did have a very close call in OotP. Hagrid was not so lucky: he was expelled after being falsely accused by Tom Riddle of opening the Chamber of Secrets. As Hagrid was an orphan at the time, Dumbledore kindly found a place for him at Hogwarts. Under normal circumstances though, what does life hold for a student who is expelled from Hogwarts? Are they shunned from the wizarding world? Would their wand be destroyed, or would this only happen if they were found guilty of a crime? Would their parents complete their magical education at home, or, if denied the use of a wand, would they have to live out the rest of their lives denied the use of their magical abilities? Would they live their lives as if they were Squibs, aware of the magical world but unable to participate? Or would they enter life in the Muggle world? -------------------- Join us in Jo's Book Nook to discuss The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge and Skellig by David Almond ........... "Only love...can leave such a mark / But only love...can heal such a scar" -U2

Replies

paint it Black View Member Profile	Jun 16 2009, 08:03 AM Post #2
DDD's Protege Posts: 757 Joined: 10:49am March 13, 2009 Location: On the Horizon	It looks like the big deciding factor here is whether or not an expelled student would be allowed to have a wand. Without a wand, they would be unable to continue much of their education, either home schooled or at another school. Without a wand, they would be unable to live a wizard's life as we know it. When Harry gets his letter from the Ministry telling him that he is expelled and that soon someone would be coming to destroy his wand, his thought is that he will need to go on the run from the law rather than relinquish his wand. Even after he gets the note from Mr. Weasley telling him to stay put, he's tempted to run for it. This suggests to me that his wand is absolutely essential to him, and that it would not be a simple matter for him to obtain another one. Perhaps expelled +/or lawbreaking wizards would get blacklisted at wandmaker's shops, forbidding them from purchasing another one. However, Flora Lovegood makes an excellent point that one could obtain a black market wand, or even one from a member of their family. I remember in DH, Lupin tells the trio that attendance at Hogwarts has become mandatory for all young witches and wizards, where previously parents could choose to homeschool or send their kids abroad for an education. So I think homeschooling might still be an option for an expelled student, if they had a wand. If one were to show up at a new school with a record and an illegally obtained wand, however, I'm not sure if they'd be welcomed. During Harry's trial at the Ministry, Dumbledore reminds Fudge that the Ministry does not have the right to confiscate a wand unless the charges against the accused have been proven. This might suggest that an expelled student's wand would only be destroyed if they had been proven guilty of a crime. I agree with Wendall that expulsion from Hogwarts seems to be punishment for only the most severe offenses (how else could James and Sirius have made it through? ), but this might in of itself include a violation of the law. So expulsion might essentially include destruction of one's wand, just due to the the fact that it's likely that the incident that got one expelled in the first place was unlawful. Although Harry's crime of performing magic outside of school as an underage wizard wasn't serious, I think Fudge combined this with Harry's performing magic in front of a Muggle (violating the Statute of Secrecy) and brought the whole Wizangamot in to hear the case in an attempt to gather anti-Harry support within the Ministry. Obviously he wanted to bring Harry down, and I think he was going beyond the normal legal procedures to accomplish it. -------------------- Join us in Jo's Book Nook to discuss The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge and Skellig by David Almond ........... "Only love...can leave such a mark / But only love...can heal such a scar" -U2

Laura W View Member Profile	Jun 16 2009, 09:17 AM Post #3
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 673 Joined: 6:25am December 9, 2007 Location: Canada	QUOTE(paint it Black @ Jun 16 2009, 07:03 AM) I remember in DH, Lupin tells the trio that attendance at Hogwarts has become mandatory for all young witches and wizards, where previously parents could choose to homeschool or send their kids abroad for an education. Yes, you are absolutely right. I looked it up and Lupin did say, "Of course, nearly every witch and wizard in Britain has been educated at Hogwarts, but their parents had the right to teach them at home or send them abroad if they preferred." I guess Jo changed her mind between the time she made that quote to the media in July 2000 - re Americans not being able to go to Hogwarts; the school "only serving" English and Irish students - and between the time she was writing DH in 2006 (completed in Jan. 2007). Or she just forgot that she had made that stipulation six years previously. Either way, if she changed her mind about this or if she just forgot and had her own character Remus Lupin contradict her own quote, it still remains a fact that all the students we meet at Hogwarts are British - except I now happily and fondly think of that real-life Canadian child, Natalie McDonald, who JKR sorted into Gryffindor in GoF, as actually being a little Canadian witch whose parents chose to have her educated in England, instead of Natalie as being British herself (ie - if nobody but UK children could go to Hogwarts) - and all the students from Beauxbaton are French and all the Durmstrang students we see who come to Hogwarts in GoF are from Eastern Europe. Maybe, though, each of those schools do have a few foreign students attending them; we are just not told of any at Hogwarts in all seven books, or of anyone non-British who ever attended Hogwarts (ie - in Harry's time or the Marauders' time or in Tom Riddle's time), in seven books we are just not told of any British witches or wizards who did attended a foreign school. They exist, but we do not see nor hear specifically of them. Quite frankly, I think Jo having Lupin say what he did in DH was a Flint, but there is no denying he said it. So we do know that parents in the British WW can send their kids abroad to be educated - assuming the children get accepted into the French or Brazilian or one of the African schools, and that the parents can pay the fees (at the university in the city where I live, there is a significantly elevated fee for foreign students) - for whatever reason. On the other hand ... were a child or young adult expelled from one wizarding school for being such a troublemaker that he or she could not stay at that school or for committing such a crime against the WW that he or she had to leave school, i just wonder how welcome she or he would be at another wizarding school in Sweden or wherever. (shrug) Laura "Harry hurriedly pointed out a large group of teenagers whom he had never seen before. 'Who d'you reckon they are?' he said. 'They don't go to Hogwarts, do they?' ' 'Spect they go to some foreign school,' said Ron. 'I know there are others, never met anyone who went to one though.' " - Goblet of Fire (Chapter Seven) This post has been edited by Laura W: Jun 16 2009, 09:41 AM --------------------

paint it Black View Member Profile	Jun 16 2009, 10:50 AM Post #4
DDD's Protege Posts: 757 Joined: 10:49am March 13, 2009 Location: On the Horizon	QUOTE(HudMug1712 @ Jun 16 2009, 09:34 AM) Everyone expelled from Hogwarts has their wand broken Harry was threatened with this in OOTP It's hard to know if he was threatened with this because he was to be expelled, or because he was being accused of breaking two laws by having done the Patronus Charm (underage magic outside of school and performing magic in the presence of a Muggle). We don't have many other cases of an expelled student to compare this to. QUOTE(Laura W @ Jun 16 2009, 10:17 AM) QUOTE(paint it Black @ Jun 16 2009, 07:03 AM) I remember in DH, Lupin tells the trio that attendance at Hogwarts has become mandatory for all young witches and wizards, where previously parents could choose to homeschool or send their kids abroad for an education. Yes, you are absolutely right. I looked it up and Lupin did say, "Of course, nearly every witch and wizard in Britain has been educated at Hogwarts, but their parents had the right to teach them at home or send them abroad if they preferred." I guess Jo changed her mind between the time she made that quote to the media in July 2000 - re Americans not being able to go to Hogwarts; the school "only serving" English and Irish students - and between the time she was writing DH in 2006 (completed in Jan. 2007). Or she just forgot that she had made that stipulation six years previously. Either way, if she changed her mind about this or if she just forgot and had her own character Remus Lupin contradict her own quote, it still remains a fact that all the students we meet at Hogwarts are British ..... Maybe it's not a contradiction; there is a possibility that Hogwarts is exclusive in having a policy of not admitting foreigners, as Laura W suggested in a previous post. Maybe not even exclusive; perhaps some schools admit foreigners and some do not. All through GoF, while students are visiting from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang, we do not hear any talk between the students of possibly switching schools. I remember Hermione specifically saying that Viktor liked it better at Hogwarts than at Durmstrang (though Viktor could just have been chatting her up... ), but (to Ron's relief, no doubt) there was never a suggestion that he might possibly switch schools. QUOTE(Laura W @ Jun 16 2009, 10:17 AM) On the other hand ... were a child or young adult expelled from one wizarding school for being such a troublemaker that he or she could not stay at that school or for committing such a crime against the WW that he or she had to leave school, i just wonder how welcome she or he would be at another wizarding school in Sweden or wherever. (shrug) I tend to agree. This post has been edited by paint it Black: Jun 16 2009, 10:52 AM -------------------- Join us in Jo's Book Nook to discuss The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge and Skellig by David Almond ........... "Only love...can leave such a mark / But only love...can heal such a scar" -U2

Posts in this topic

paint it Black Expelled Jun 15 2009, 02:06 AM

Wendall I'd say the first option would be to go to ano... Jun 15 2009, 05:08 AM

Flora Lovegood I agree that transfer to another school would be a... Jun 15 2009, 09:06 AM

Laura W Hmm. In an interview she gave to the South West Ne... Jun 15 2009, 09:45 AM

Ginevra86 I think that Hagid's wand was broken only beca... Jun 15 2009, 09:50 AM

paint it Black It looks like the big deciding factor here is whet... Jun 16 2009, 08:03 AM

Laura W QUOTE(paint it Black @ Jun 16 2009, 07:03... Jun 16 2009, 09:17 AM

paint it Black QUOTE(HudMug1712 @ Jun 16 2009, 09:34 AM)... Jun 16 2009, 10:50 AM

Kermit QUOTE(paint it Black @ Jun 16 2009, 08:03... Feb 26 2010, 11:10 PM

HudMug1712 Everyone expelled from Hogwarts has their wand bro... Jun 16 2009, 08:34 AM

roonwit QUOTE(HudMug1712 @ Jun 16 2009, 02:34 PM)... Jun 16 2009, 01:31 PM

Kay I think its posible Jo just said no, Becasue the p... Jun 24 2009, 05:34 AM

paint it Black QUOTE(Kay @ Jun 24 2009, 06:34 AM) Didn... Jun 24 2009, 07:35 AM

sairah Life of a muggle I suppose. Or maybe you can just ... Oct 14 2009, 09:01 PM

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