Godric's Hollow, Not named after Godric Gryffindor |
Feb 27 2006, 07:40 PM
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Champion of the Headless Hunt!![]() ![]() Posts: 366 Joined: 10:35pm December 26, 2005 Location: At home listening to the Wizarding Wireless |
I've searched it, haven't found it, so here it goes.
Why can't Godric be named after somebody that's not a wizard? Godric's Hollow isn't just wizards. It's muggles too. Hogsmeade is the only all wizarding village in Britain. (PoA) I reckon it was named after a famous muggle...... perhaps a saint? From Wikipedia- QUOTE Godric of Finchale (c. 1065 - May 21, 1170) was an English hermit and popular medieval saint, although he was never formally canonized. He was born in Walpole in Norfolk and died in Finchale in County Durham. Godric's life was recorded by a contemporary of his: a monk named Reginald of Durham. Several other hagiographies are also extant. According to these accounts, Godric, who began from humble beginnings as the son of Ailward and Edwenna, "both of slender rank and wealth, but abundant in righteousness and virtue", was a pedlar, then a sailor and entrepreneur, and may have been the captain and owner of the ship that conveyed Baldwin I of Jerusalem to Jaffa. in 1102. After years at sea, Godric reportedly went to the island of Lindisfarne and there encountered Saint Cuthbert. This encounter changed his life, and he devoted himself to Christianity and service to God thereafter. After many pilgrimages around the Mediterranean, Godric returned to England and lived with a hermit named Aelric for two years. Upon Aelric's death, Godric made one last pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and then returned home where he convinced Ranulf Flambard, the Bishop of Durham to grant him a place to live as a hermit at Finchale, by the River Wear. He had previously served as doorkeeper, the lowest of the minor orders, at the hospital church of nearby St Giles Hospital in Durham. He is recorded to have lived at Finchale for the final 60 years of his life, occasionally meeting with visitors approved by the local prior. As the years passed, his reputation grew, and Thomas Becket and Pope Alexander III both reportedly sought Godric's advice as a wise and holy man. Reginald describes Godric's physical attributes: For he was vigorous and strenuous in mind, whole of limb and strong in body. He was of middle stature, broad-shouldered and deep-chested, with a long face, grey eyes most clear and piercing, bushy brows, a broad forehead, long and open nostrils, a nose of comely curve, and a pointed chin. His beard was thick, and longer than the ordinary, his mouth well-shaped, with lips of moderate thickness; in youth his hair was black, in age as white as snow; his neck was short and thick, knotted with veins and sinews; his legs were somewhat slender, his instep high, his knees hardened and horny with frequent kneeling; his whole skin rough beyond the ordinary, until all this roughness was softened by old age.... Godric is perhaps best remembered for his kindness toward animals, and many stories recall his protection of the creatures who lived near his forest home. According to one of these, he hid a stag from pursuing hunters; according to another, he even allowed snakes to warm themselves by his fire. Reginald recorded four songs of Godric's: they are the oldest songs in English for which the original musical settings survive. Doesn't that make more sense? I mean, muggles live there, so they'd be curious as to who their village is named for. They'd at least say something like that to satisfy them. That it was named for Godric of Finchale. Because the wizards probably wouldn't go "Oh yeah, Godric's Hollow is named after Godric Gryffindor who's really a wizard and blah blah blah" Baaaaaad idea. XD So yeah, I think that it can't be named after Gryffindor because Muggles would wonder. So what do you think? Yay? Nay? Maybe so? -------------------- |
Feb 27 2006, 07:48 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup![]() Posts: 18 Joined: 5:11pm December 14, 2005 Location: Georgia |
Alyssa. You are the new JK Rowling. It's offical.
XD -------------------- wh00t
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Feb 28 2006, 07:28 AM
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Exploding Snap Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 1,741 Joined: 1:02pm August 11, 2005 Location: Hogwarts. |
You say the Hogsmeade is the only all Wizarding village in Britain & you are correct but it might not have always been so.
Godric's Hollow could quite conceivably been an all Wizarding village about 500 years ago but as the muggle population grew the Muggles moved outwards & gradually moved in to Wizarding villages. Hogsmeade probably benefits from its proximity to Hogwarts as an unplottable village & it's remoteness in Scotland means it has been overlooked by Muggles. By our nature if a name of a village seems meaningless people will invent something that is plausible enough to be the origin whether it is correct or not. There are names in England that are believed to date back about 2,500 years but we will never know if they are actually correct. It's all just best guess. So it is still quite conceivable that it was named after Godric Gryffindor 900 years ago as an all Wizarding village. :wizard: -------------------- Born in July 1881 - Died in June 1997.
"I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me... Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it." Albus Dumbledore¿ |
Feb 28 2006, 07:17 PM
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Champion of the Headless Hunt!![]() ![]() Posts: 366 Joined: 10:35pm December 26, 2005 Location: At home listening to the Wizarding Wireless |
QUOTE(~Dumbledore's~Ghost¿~ @ Feb. 28 2006,07:28 ) You say the Hogsmeade is the only all Wizarding village in Britain & you are correct but it might not have always been so. Godric's Hollow could quite conceivably been an all Wizarding village about 500 years ago but as the muggle population grew the Muggles moved outwards & gradually moved in to Wizarding villages. Hogsmeade probably benefits from its proximity to Hogwarts as an unplottable village & it's remoteness in Scotland means it has been overlooked by Muggles. By our nature if a name of a village seems meaningless people will invent something that is plausible enough to be the origin whether it is correct or not. There are names in England that are believed to date back about 2,500 years but we will never know if they are actually correct. It's all just best guess. So it is still quite conceivable that it was named after Godric Gryffindor 900 years ago as an all Wizarding village. :wizard: Gah. I wish Jo would answer this question............ That could be plausible. I think that at any rate the muggles that live there would have to be told something of their town, so perhaps he could be the scapegoat of sorts. But that is true, it could have perhaps started out wizarding! :) -------------------- |
Mar 1 2006, 02:09 AM
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Hedwig's Cousin![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 1,040 Joined: 8:00pm January 4, 2005 Location: Dive bombing NYC tourists |
Could it be possible that the Godric that is on Wikipedia could be the SAME individual as Godric Gryffindor? Didn't the split between the Wizard and Muggle worlds happen after Hogwarts was created?
-------------------- Brilliant avatar created by anguinea
Baron Munchausen: Why, why, why? Because it's all logic and reason now! Science, progress, chip-chip!Laws of hydraulics, laws of social dynamics, laws of this, that and the other... No place for three legged Cyclops in the South Seas... no place for cucumber trees and oceans of vine... no place for me! Vultures Rock!!!! |
Mar 1 2006, 05:43 PM
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Champion of the Headless Hunt!![]() ![]() Posts: 366 Joined: 10:35pm December 26, 2005 Location: At home listening to the Wizarding Wireless |
QUOTE(Puffin @ Mar. 01 2006,02:09 ) Could it be possible that the Godric that is on Wikipedia could be the SAME individual as Godric Gryffindor? Didn't the split between the Wizard and Muggle worlds happen after Hogwarts was created? Oooo, now that's a clever one! That didn't even cross my mind......... That would be interesting.... Plus, it works to make the wizards and muggles happy. XD -------------------- |
Mar 8 2006, 07:54 PM
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Daily Prophet Photographer![]() Posts: 866 Joined: 7:26pm June 10, 2005 Location: Curled up on the sofa with coffee, my dog, and Harry Potter ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Hmm. The Godrics could be the same person. But my bet is that it's for Godric Gryffindor simply because it's more JKR's style to name-drop like that. In "real life" there may be difficulties about where the name came from, or there may not be-- many wizards were obviously living among muggles and living in disguise, maybe GG was one; like, Godric's Hollow was named for it's first mayor a thousand years ago, Godric Gryffindor!, while the wizards chuckle silently.
From a literary standpoint it makes sense that if JKR is going to go to the trouble of naming this village and gives it an immediately recognizable name from within her little world, then there should be a connection between the two. That's why there was such a furor over the 'Mark Evans' incident, when a Mark Evans is mentioned once in the beginning of Order of the Phoenix. Everybody jumped on it and wondered if there was a connection to Lilly Evans, when there was actually no connection. Evans is a common name, though. Godric is anything but common, as can be evidenced by the fact that Llyssa only found one historical example of the name. "Benjamin Gryffindor' and "Benjamin's Hollow", or "Godfrey Gryffindor" and "Godfrey's Hollow", for example, would be a more believable "coincidence" if there's not supposed to be a connection; JKR went out of her way to choose a very uncommon name and use it in two places. We naturally draw a line between the two. Basically there are no coincidences in the names of fiction; it's either a connection/clue, an intentional red herring, or an error on the part of the author. My vote is for a connection! -------------------- ![]() |
Mar 11 2006, 08:30 PM
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Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies![]() ![]() Posts: 665 Joined: 11:32am June 4, 2005 |
I really like the references you dug up, but JKR has pretty much confirmed it all...
QUOTE And I'm going to ask one other question which you'll say isn't clever at all. The significance of the place where Harry and his parents lived, the first name -- Godric Gryffindor. Very good, you're a bit good you are, aren't you? Thank you. I'm impressed. My editor didn't notice, I said to her haven't you noticed any connection between where Harry's parents were born, not born, where they lived, and one of the Hogwarts houses and she's sitting there going erm... I'm not being rude about Emma she's a brilliant editor, the best I've ever [had]. But no she didn't pick that up either. You're a bit good you are. Now, she doesn't seem to just pick names totally randomly either, and I think there's value in the research about the name Godric, but I'd be pretty sure Godric's Hollow was named for G. Gryffindor. -------------------- "Haven't you noticed, Professor, how the people Snape hates tend to end up dead?"
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Mar 12 2006, 09:54 AM
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Dodgy Cauldrons Dealer![]() ![]() ![]() Posts: 1,643 Joined: 8:39am July 6, 2005 Location: Manchester |
Why would the villagers be that interested in who Godric was? It's just a name. If I lived in a place called Godric's Hollow I'd just presume Godric was just some historical bozo who named the place. There are many places named after people - the public don't tend to go around worrying if they don't know who the person was.
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Mar 12 2006, 11:19 AM
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner![]() ![]() Posts: 237 Joined: 12:12pm March 2, 2006 Location: The Garden of Eden |
I think it sounds very plausible, don't get me wrong.
But what makes me doubt it.. is the fact that in the Dutch translation the name has no connection at all with Godric Gryffindor... It's called 'Halvemaanstraat' which literally means "Half-moon street".. That could be just a wrong translation, of course, but usually they are very accurate (for instance R.A.B. is made into R.A.Z., I am sure the translator contacts Jo about such things) and I can't imagine the translator (who must read every sentence very carefully) wouldn't have noticed the Godric.... And Jo doesn't actually say that the theory is correct... but I agree she suggests it is... I'm confused!!! This post has been edited by Kirin: Mar 12 2006, 11:20 AM |




Feb 27 2006, 07:40 PM














