Is this Grammatically Correct?, Advice on grammar issues |
 Mar 14 2008, 11:39 AM
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Slug & Jigger's Bezoar Collector  Posts: 4,643 Joined: 3:58pm June 14, 2005 Location: New York, NY   |
According to Wikipedia:
QUOTE Grammar is the study of the rules governing the use of a given natural language, and, as such, is a field of linguistics. Here is a link to the page about English Grammar So, how do we know we are using proper English (or other written language) grammar? There are so many rules, and a great many exceptions to those rules. Some of us (myself included) didn't formal learn grammar in our own language until we took a foriegn language course. Below are some grammar rules from NickTLC. Please share if you have some insight into these grammar rules, or have other questions, comments, or suggestions pertaining to grammar.
-------------------- Not-so-proud member of P.C.A.A.: acceptance is the first step to recovery.
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Mar 15 2008, 10:29 AM
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Daily Prophet Photographer Posts: 866 Joined: 7:26pm June 10, 2005 Location: Curled up on the sofa with coffee, my dog, and Harry Potter  |
My biggest issues:
Like and As. NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. Good and Well. Its and It's. To, too, and very. Ending a sentence in a preposition doesn't bother me that much, especially in dialogue, as it reflects normal speech. (I read somewhere that that whole rule was transposed directly from Latin grammar, along with the whole splitting-prepositions issue, and don't adequately address English language usage, but I am still trying to find the argument. I think it is in Woe is I: The Grammarphobe's Guide to Better English in Plain English.) For example, this sounds normal (to me): "What is this used for?" while any "grammatically correct" version sounds funky. "For what is this used?" Eh, I'm no grammar expert. I guess this is the perfect excuse to actually buy that book, or maybe Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. Passive voice drives me nuts, as does the rampant over-use of "be" verbs. --------------------  |
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Mar 18 2008, 09:17 AM
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Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,422 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade  |
I see a slight potential for problems for the forum caused by the differences between British usage and American usage, and I don't mean just spelling and vocabulary. Differences exist, for example, in quotation mark usage and punctuation associated with quotation marks. Enough differences exist to rightfully claim that the British and Americans are "two people divided by a common language" (Churchill, I believe).
--------------------  click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
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Mar 22 2008, 02:21 AM
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#4
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Severus Snape's Personal Assistant  Posts: 2,269 Joined: 11:44pm November 29, 2005 Location: In the Hogwarts kitchen eating cookies. |
Along with those grammar sites I sometimes listen to the podcast Grammar Girl. The most problems I have are with the usage of the semicolon. I usually just don't use it. I can never remember how to use it either, lol. I'll look it up and forget the next day.
That's weird, Nick. I was told I could do it either way. I choose to leave that comma out before that last "and". Hmm... --------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Mar 22 2008, 03:22 AM
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Knight Bus Driver in Training Posts: 594 Joined: 6:25am December 9, 2007 Location: Canada |
You're right, Nick. The Canadian Press Stylebook (which uses British spelling and grammar and punctuation for the most part, I believe), says that you do not put a comma right before the "and" that's last in a list.
Personally, I prefer the American way of putting a comma in there. I think it looks better. So ... when I am writing officially, I leave the comma out; and when I am writing casually - like my posts on LL -, I put it in. (But I always feel a bit guilty when I do.) Heh, heh. I have a feeling this thread, although undoubtedly enlightening and informative, is going to be something like a Differences Between the British and American Versions of the Harry Potter Books thread. This post has been edited by Laura W: Mar 22 2008, 03:29 AM |
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Mar 22 2008, 03:42 AM
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#6
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 91 Joined: 9:37am March 5, 2008 |
QUOTE(Laura W @ Mar 22 2008, 04:22 AM)  You're right, Nick. The Canadian Press Stylebook (which uses British spelling and grammar and punctuation for the most part, I believe), says that you do not put a comma right before the "and" that's last in a list. Personally, I prefer the American way of putting a comma in there. I think it looks better. So ... when I am writing officially, I leave the comma out; and when I am writing casually - like my posts on LL -, I put it in. (But I always feel a bit guilty when I do.) Heh, heh. I have a feeling this thread, although undoubtedly enlightening and informative, is going to be something like a Differences Between the British and American Versions of the Harry Potter Books thread. I don't believe there is a comma before the and that is last in a list in the american version of english grammar either. If i say, "I am going to the store for ham, cheese, eggs, milk and bread.", why would there be a comma between milk and and? A comma there would serve no purpose. I am not criticising you. I am just making a statement. Don't be offended. |
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Mar 22 2008, 07:35 AM
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Fudge-Maker at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 2,223 Joined: 9:13pm February 18, 2005 Location: Snubbing the mortals |
QUOTE(NYBookworm @ Mar 14 2008, 11:39 AM) [*]Never start a sentence with a conjunction (and, or, but, however, so, since, therefore, because, ....) Who actually follows this rule? I'm well aware that it is one. However, sentences like exist everywhere you turn. Just as in novels same as in something ordinary like posting here. I guess I'm just inclined to believe many of the so called "rules" are of little or no importance anymore. QUOTE [*]Avoid run-on sentences by joining two clauses together with a comma followed by a conjunction. [*]Only use semi-colons to join two continuous-thought sentences together or to separate items in a list where you had to use commas for one of the parts of the list I know I'm missing something. Both of these points sound a lot alike to me. So I'm having a hard time differentiating. Can someone further explain please? --------------------  |
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Mar 22 2008, 08:52 AM
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 230 Joined: 11:54am June 3, 2007 |
QUOTE(Aphrodites Lady @ Mar 22 2008, 12:35 PM) QUOTE [*]Avoid run-on sentences by joining two clauses together with a comma followed by a conjunction. [*]Only use semi-colons to join two continuous-thought sentences together or to separate items in a list where you had to use commas for one of the parts of the list I know I'm missing something. Both of these points sound a lot alike to me. So I'm having a hard time differentiating. Can someone further explain please? Basically it means that if you have a sentence with two clauses/thoughts, you should separate them with a comma (See what I did there?). If I was to write a sentence that runs on without using a comma (like this one) it seems to run on and on and if you was to say this text out while breathing whenever you see a comma you're probably out of breath by now. I tend to think of that rule: if it's somewhere where there's a natural gap in the speech, a comma goes there As for the oxford comma, I think I'm one of the few brits who prefer to use them  Semi-colons are a little stronger, and I'll let someone else explain them because I don't know how to (I'm someone else who recommends grammar girl, she has lots of helpful advice) This post has been edited by baulid: Mar 22 2008, 08:53 AM --------------------  “It is our choices, Harry, which show what we truly are“ W.O.M.B.A.T.S. Test 1 - E, Test 2 - E, Test 3 - A |
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Mar 22 2008, 09:01 AM
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#9
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 230 Joined: 11:54am June 3, 2007 |
QUOTE(darksoul707 @ Mar 22 2008, 08:42 AM) I don't believe there is a comma before the and that is last in a list in the american version of english grammar either. If i say, "I am going to the store for ham, cheese, eggs, milk and bread.", why would there be a comma between milk and and? A comma there would serve no purpose. I am not criticising you. I am just making a statement. Don't be offended. It's just two different styles really, most of the time it doesn't matter. It can be useful if there could be confusion if there's no comma there, though, for example: * "I am going to the store for ham, cheese, eggs, milk, meat and potato pies" - do you mean meat and potato pies (a pie with meat and potato in) or do you mean potato pies (a pie with potato in) and some meat? * (This one stolen from Grammar Girl) "I went to see Zack, an officer and a gentleman" - Did you go to see one person (Zack, who happens to be an officer and gentleman) or three different people? QUOTE(Aphrodites Lady) However, sentences like exist everywhere you turn. Just as in novels same as in something ordinary like posting here. I guess I'm just inclined to believe many of the so called "rules" are of little or no importance anymore. I tend to agree, a lot of rules generally aren't followed much nowadays. But you need to be careful that you don't break the important rules! (The use of 'but' at the start of that sentence was not intentional!) -------------------- “It is our choices, Harry, which show what we truly are“ W.O.M.B.A.T.S. Test 1 - E, Test 2 - E, Test 3 - A |
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Mar 22 2008, 12:02 PM
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Sundae-Nut-Chopper at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 948 Joined: 12:30am December 18, 2006 |
I think that it might be important to differentiate explicitly between what is technically correct, and what is socially acceptable or commonly used. For me, this thread--asking "Is this grammatically correct?"--refers to technical questions. Of course, the reason that there is the need for such a thread is because what we do with grammar in different contexts (e.g., speaking, writing email, posting on Leaky, and writing formally) is all very different. So while on Leaky I might do something technically incorrect (*cough*start a sentence with a conjunction*cough*) because it sounds a bit more natural, I might or might not feel that it is appropriate to do so while writing a novel, poem, article, report, etc. From this perspective, posting information about the "rules" is quite useful--without forgetting that we don't always follow them!
 Re: the Oxford comma--Even though it is standard use in American English, there are exceptions. Journalistic/news writing doesn't use it, but APA style (which is used in my profession) specifically does (see p78 of the 5th edition). baulid, thanks for the short lesson on how it reduces ambiguity! As long as we can acknowledge those different types of situations and contexts with usage here, I think we'll be alright! 
-------------------- "...the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters" - Sirius Black (OOTP14)
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