Leaky Lounge

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

The Rules : FAQ : Search : Member List : Sitemap

Forum News: All you ever wanted to know about Jo's Book Nook
Hot Thread: PoA Animal Poll in the HP Book Club.
Mod Thread: David Tennant - Actor of the Month Discussion

The Greatest Love Story Ever Told?

Dreamteam View Member Profile	Feb 22 2009, 06:11 PM Post #1
One Half of the DDD Posts: 8,953 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere	"Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same" - Catherine Earnshaw The love between Catherine and Heathcliff is often said to be the greatest love story ever told. Even people who have never read the story know that the two of them are in love, deeply and passionately and, yet, they seem to spend most of the book hurting each other. Where is the caring and tenderness that we usually associate with being in love? Cathy said "if Heathcliff and I married, we should be beggars" was love not enough for her? Could Heathcliff and Cathy have ever been truly happy? What does true love mean, and is there true love in this book? Is their love story really greater than other literary love stories, such as Romeo and Juliet, Darcy and Elizabeth or Lancelot and Guinevere? Wwhere does this book rank for you? Please feel free to answer any or none of these questions and also to post others on this topic. This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Feb 23 2009, 07:50 AM -------------------- March's Book Nook: The Little White Horse by Elizabeth Goudge/Skellig by David Almond "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!"

Replies (1 - 9)

Eva Hedwig View Member Profile	Feb 28 2009, 06:07 PM Post #2
Luring Muggles into Knockturn-Alley Posts: 5,312 Joined: 1:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In the south where no Dementor can find me	Cathy said "if Heathcliff and I married, we should be beggars" was love not enough for her? I would say, that actualy in 2009 and in the occidental part of our planet, we have a lot of options how to live our lives and are very independent of traditions, rituals, ...But in 1847 it would have been dificult for a white woman of certain social status to marry a poor man, who was dark and looked like a "gipsy". I think, that Cathy was very happy in Heathcliff's company while they were growing up far away from a village. But the moment they both come in contact with others,(the Lintons) Cathy saw how Heathcliff was treated and rejected. She did love him, maybe like a sister or a play mate, but it was dificult to acept him as a husband, having nowhere to go with him. I don't consider it as a great love story, as they never come togehter. Edgar gave Cathy the chance to go with Heathcliff, but she preferred to stay. Why didn't she had the guts to go with Heathcliff ? Was she afraid of beeing disapointed by him ? This post has been edited by Eva Hedwig: Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM

DumblondKatie View Member Profile	Feb 28 2009, 06:52 PM Post #3
Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 494 Joined: 10:29pm August 9, 2008 Location: Sending Ginny a Hogwarts Toilet Seat	I think its a incredible love story. Most love stories these days are when the two main characteres end up together, but that doesn't have to be like that. In real life even if you love someone, sometimes you can't be with them. May it be for that 'poor' reason, or the colour reason. Cathy couldn't have been with Heathcliff, because it was true, they would have been beggers. Like Cathy said, this way should could have helped Heathcliff to not be a begger. But still, there was no doubt they loved each other, but their love was destructive. I think that they could have been truely happy. Because if they did get married, I doubt Heathcliff would be as horible as he was to everyone else. For me, the main reason he was such a nasty person was because the only people he every loved always went away. If Cathy sayed, I'm sure he would have been a nice person, or at least a bearable one. True love means that you will do anything for that person, whether its to keep them from being a begger, or just to make them smile. Cathy and Heathcliff had that, I think. They don't need to end up together for it to be true love. So I would catigorise it in the same section as Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy. -------------------- ] <---- ♥ Yup. I'm a Shipper.

Eva Hedwig View Member Profile	Feb 28 2009, 07:25 PM Post #4
Luring Muggles into Knockturn-Alley Posts: 5,312 Joined: 1:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In the south where no Dementor can find me	QUOTE(DumblondKatie @ Feb 28 2009, 11:52 PM) True love means that you will do anything for that person, Cathy had the chance to go with Heathcliff, but she stayed. Edgar wouldn't have hindered her to leave the Grange. He encourage her to decide for herself. Taking this into account, she didn't loved him enough to go back to him. Was she still sulking because Heathcliff had left her three years ago without saying good-by ? Doesn't true love pardon everything ??

DumblondKatie View Member Profile	Feb 28 2009, 08:41 PM Post #5
Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 494 Joined: 10:29pm August 9, 2008 Location: Sending Ginny a Hogwarts Toilet Seat	Yes, Cathy could have gone back to Heathcliff, but there was always one thing stopping them. Pride. Or at least I think so Yes, she totally could have gone back, but so could have Heathcliff. I have no doubt that Cathy loved Edgar, but in a way Bella loves Jacob compared to the way she love Edward ( sorry about the Twilight thing, but its right, no ? ) Think what you want, but I know that that was true love, you have to read only one sentance to work that out - "I cannot live without my heart, I cannot live without my soul" - Catherine Earnshaw -------------------- ] <---- ♥ Yup. I'm a Shipper.

Nadezhda View Member Profile	Mar 1 2009, 12:35 PM Post #6
Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 92 Joined: 4:37am April 15, 2006 Location: Grim Old Place	I don't think that Catherine and Heathcliff's love story is the greatest love story ever told... But in terms of the intensity and sincerity of the feeling it's just as powerful as "Romeo and Juliette." QUOTE Cathy said "if Heathcliff and I married, we should be beggars" was love not enough for her? I think that's a very important line. A woman always has to think about her future children and Heathcliff just wasn't a good option as a potential father... No wonder he resented her betrayal, but life is cruel... sigh

MysteryloverAnne View Member Profile	Mar 2 2009, 11:54 AM Post #7
Visual Aids of Swoonworthiness Person Posts: 3,067 Joined: 8:49pm December 9, 2006 Location: Lost in a Good Book somewhere in Minneapolis	QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Feb 22 2009, 05:11 PM) "Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same" - Catherine Earnshaw The love between Catherine and Heathcliff is often said to be the greatest love story ever told. Even people who have never read the story know that the two of them are in love, deeply and passionately and, yet, they seem to spend most of the book hurting each other. Where is the caring and tenderness that we usually associate with being in love? Cathy said "if Heathcliff and I married, we should be beggars" was love not enough for her? Could Heathcliff and Cathy have ever been truly happy? What does true love mean, and is there true love in this book? Is their love story really greater than other literary love stories, such as Romeo and Juliet, Darcy and Elizabeth or Lancelot and Guinevere? Wwhere does this book rank for you? I often why this is referred to as a love story, because if there is one thing that is lacking in almost all the characters and novel it is love. To me, it is a tale of obsesssion and possession. It demonstrates how easy it is to form truely amoral characters through degradation and scorn. I think it is a Great Novel - just not a love story. -------------------- siggy & avatar by theonlysong

Pyxis View Member Profile	Mar 2 2009, 10:38 PM Post #8
Exclusive distributor of The Dungbomb Protection Kit Posts: 2,642 Joined: 10:52pm March 5, 2007	QUOTE(DumblondKatie @ Feb 28 2009, 04:52 PM) [font="Lucida Console"]I think that they could have been truely happy. Because if they did get married, I doubt Heathcliff would be as horible as he was to everyone else. For me, the main reason he was such a nasty person was because the only people he every loved always went away. If Cathy sayed, I'm sure he would have been a nice person, or at least a bearable one. That is something interesting to consider...would Heathcliff be a different man if Cathy had chosen to stay with him. I think you make a good point that part of his issues have to do with abandonment, but I believe that he would be just as vengeful and hateful. Cathy said she prevented him from hurting people, not from a persuasion to do right, but because she would be grieved to have him harm someone else. I don't think that part of his nature was capable of being changed, least of all by her, she seemed to feed his dark side. QUOTE(MysteryloverAnne @ Mar 2 2009, 09:54 AM) I often why this is referred to as a love story, because if there is one thing that is lacking in almost all the characters and novel it is love. To me, it is a tale of obsesssion and possession. It demonstrates how easy it is to form truely amoral characters through degradation and scorn. I think it is a Great Novel - just not a love story. MysteryloverAnne beat me to it! I don't think the relationship between Catherine and Heathcliff is love at all. I think it is unhealthy and obsessive. Heathcliff's desire for Cathy to remain on this earth as a ghost, simply so he won't be alone is the most selfish thing I can imagine. Cathy going to her deathbead blaming Heathcliff for her demise is almost as bad. However, I don't think the novel is completely hopeless in the love department. There are a couple of very touching things that happened, buried and overshadowed by H/C. The first is the information that Edgar spends so much time at Cathy's grave, I think that he really did love her, in spite of herself. The other scene that touched me (perhaps because it was like coming into the sunshine after the gloom of Heathcliff) was at the end of the book, when Cathy the second is tutoring Hareton. What a sweet picture that was, and I get the impression the two of them are also truly, and selflessly, in love.

Spectrespecs View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 07:23 AM Post #9
Gringotts Goblin Translator Posts: 1,230 Joined: 1:14pm July 24, 2005 Location: The Land of Crumple-Horned Snorkacks and Short-Snouted Dragons	QUOTE(MysteryloverAnne @ Mar 2 2009, 10:54 PM) I often why this is referred to as a love story, because if there is one thing that is lacking in almost all the characters and novel it is love. To me, it is a tale of obsesssion and possession. It demonstrates how easy it is to form truely amoral characters through degradation and scorn. I think it is a Great Novel - just not a love story. Fifteen or twenty years have probably passed since I last read the book. When I reread it now I had that question in my mind all through the book: Why do people consider this a romantic love story? I agree with you MysteryloverAnne, obsession and possession dominate over "love" in this story. I don't think there is any way Catherine and Heathcliff could have lived "happily ever after" - and Catherine sees it, too. She sees Heathcliff for what he is. Catherine does love him, but not really in the romance-leading-to-marriage kind of way. But she has a wild streak in her herself, which makes her understand the kind of person Heathcliff is. She says to Nelly in Ch. 8: My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath - a source of little visisble delight, but necessary, Nelly, I am Heathcliff - he's always, always in my mind - not as pleasure, any more than I am always pleasure to myself - but as my own being - But she also warns Isabella about him in Ch. 10: It is deplorable ignorance of his charachter, child, and nothing else, which makes that dream enter your head. Pray, don't imagine that he conceals depths of benevolence and affection beneath a stern exterior! He's not a rough diamond - a pearl-containing oyster of a rustic; he's a fierce, pitiless, wolfish man. Reading WH now, "post Harry Potter", I see resemblances between Catherine - Heathcliff and Lily - Severus. There was a time in their childhood when the two of them were the only ones who understood each other. Catherine/Lily grew up and made new friends and married someone else - they were capable of loving different people in different ways. Heathcliff/Severus Snape however remained caught in their original "one and only" obsession... -------------------- Visit My Blog: The Island of the Voices "But there I have another name."/Aslan in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (C.S. Lewis)

MysteryloverAnne View Member Profile	Mar 3 2009, 08:25 AM Post #10
Visual Aids of Swoonworthiness Person Posts: 3,067 Joined: 8:49pm December 9, 2006 Location: Lost in a Good Book somewhere in Minneapolis	QUOTE(Spectrespecs @ Mar 3 2009, 06:23 AM) It is deplorable ignorance of his charachter, child, and nothing else, which makes that dream enter your head. Pray, don't imagine that he conceals depths of benevolence and affection beneath a stern exterior! He's not a rough diamond - a pearl-containing oyster of a rustic; he's a fierce, pitiless, wolfish man. Reading WH now, "post Harry Potter", I see resemblances between Catherine - Heathcliff and Lily - Severus. There was a time in their childhood when the two of them were the only ones who understood each other. Catherine/Lily grew up and made new friends and married someone else - they were capable of loving different people in different ways. Heathcliff/Severus Snape however remained caught in their original "one and only" obsession... Great quote from the novel, Spectrespecs....I found that quite telling that Cathy seems to be under no delusions as to Heathcliff's character but Heathcliff couldn't understand the part of Cathy that needed what Edgar had to offer. Perhaps just because he would be the one 'sharing' instead of being 'shared' or perhaps it was just the male self-centeredness of the time period. I was also struck by your inciteful comparison to Snape and Lily and how Snape's deep passion for her motivates his life far beyond her death. -------------------- siggy & avatar by theonlysong

« Next Oldest · Jo's Book Nook: Wuthering Heights · Next Newest »

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

0 Members:

Display Mode: Switch to: Standard · Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

Sorting is open now for Deathly Hallows! Follow this link.

Coming Up:
The Corner Booth is on Hiatus Join us in the New Year!

Come right in to the Shrieking Shack Arcade!

Shopping at the Cauldron Shop supports this forum!

IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error
There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here