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Harry and Beowulf, Why is Harry the anti-Beowulf?

Ravenclaw_Runner... Ravenclaw_Runner92 View Member Profile	May 29 2009, 10:16 PM Post #1
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 521 Joined: 7:56pm December 28, 2008 Location: Quidditch Pitch, team practice	Recently I read the epic tale of Beowulf where the major character Beowulf lives as a god among his people. He is their hero and savior. His life is devoted to protect the people, which causes him to never be able to be part of a city. He must always live on the outside. This theme is common in other places, such as Froto not living in the shire at the end. He can no longer within the society. Also, Batman in the new movies is a perfect example too. He is a hero, whose life is devoted to the people. However, he is not accepted by his society. He lives on the outskirts. In Dark Knight, Rachel tells batman that she cannot live him because he will always be needed. Batman can never just stop and settle down. Harry Potter is a hero, who gives up his life for everyone else. However, he is not like the characters listed above. He is different. He is able to live within the society. He is able to settle down and be the average joe in the wizarding world. My question is why Harry is like this. Why can Harry be the hero that you could have over for dinner? Why is Harry able to save the world, and then go back to his four-poster bed? Many characters in movies and literature cannot do this. -------------------- "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

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Replies (10 - 18)

cooncatbob View Member Profile	Jun 9 2009, 11:46 AM Post #11
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 662 Joined: 4:16pm April 26, 2008	In the original comic book Peter Parker used his powers to try and make money. He let a criminal run by him without trying to prevent his escape. This criminal later shot and killed his Uncle Ben. The comics are rather different then the movies just like "Harry Potter" Peter Parker is a reluctant hero who never seem to get a break in life, the "Daily Bugle" proclaims him a menace and a dangerous vigilante. But his duty and responsibility won't allow him to stand by again while innocents are harm when he has the power to help. Just as Harry won't allow his friends to face Voldemort in his stead. This post has been edited by cooncatbob: Jun 9 2009, 11:47 AM -------------------- Work like you don't need the money Love like you've never been hurt, and Dance like no one is watching.

Gandalf's Beard View Member Profile	Jun 9 2009, 12:46 PM Post #12
Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 170 Joined: 6:47am April 30, 2009 Location: Gandalf's Chin	I have been saying for years that Harry Potter and Peter Parker are precisely the same archetype, right down to the red-haired girlfriends, John Lennon glasses, uncomprehending Aunt and Uncle (at least Parker's were kind), reluctant heroes etc. etc. Good call, Cooncatbob and others who have made the same connection. -------------------- "It is like a finger pointing at the moon. don't pay attention to the finger or you will miss all that Heavenly Glory" -- Bruce Lee

Ravenclaw_Runner... Ravenclaw_Runner92 View Member Profile	Jun 9 2009, 06:54 PM Post #13
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 521 Joined: 7:56pm December 28, 2008 Location: Quidditch Pitch, team practice	I am liking reading about Peter compared to Harry however, I still wonder why, Harry is able to live with society at the end of his journey, and why people like Frodo can not. Is it like how Jo said and that he was able to do the impossible - go to living as an average Jo? If so what about Harry allowed him to do so? -------------------- "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

cooncatbob View Member Profile	Jun 9 2009, 08:28 PM Post #14
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 662 Joined: 4:16pm April 26, 2008	QUOTE(Ravenclaw_Runner92 @ Jun 9 2009, 04:54 PM) I am liking reading about Peter compared to Harry however, I still wonder why, Harry is able to live with society at the end of his journey, and why people like Frodo can not. Is it like how Jo said and that he was able to do the impossible - go to living as an average Jo? If so what about Harry allowed him to do so? The ring almost totally consumed Frodo. "I'm naked and there's nothing between me and the wheel of Fire". Harry is just the opposite, his journey made the "Boy Who Lived" into the young Man who vanquished Voldemort. As a reward for what he'd lost Frodo was granted passage to the undying lands. The end of the LOTR is bitter sweet, the war has been won but the time of Elves is over and the dominion of Man is at hand. For Harry, as we see in the Epilogue his dreams have come true. The boy who had no loving family and friends has his own family, is part of the extended Weasley clan, has friends loyal and true and the admiration of the Wizarding World as a whole. JKR could have almost wrote "and he lived happily ever after". -------------------- Work like you don't need the money Love like you've never been hurt, and Dance like no one is watching.

Gandalf's Beard View Member Profile	Jun 9 2009, 09:07 PM Post #15
Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 170 Joined: 6:47am April 30, 2009 Location: Gandalf's Chin	Ravenclaw Runner, for the traditional archetype of the Wounded Hero the wounds run too deep, the Gnosis attained during the Quest too enlightening, the Hero becomes too alienated and too Deified to ever truly go home again. Cooncatbob is on the right track regarding Harry Potter. For all his alienation, he has friends and family (the Weasleys) who have shared his journey and his pain and help him overcome it. And in the end, Rowling tweaks the archetype and Humanizes her Hero; he's a regular guy, not a demi-god. Frodo shares this quality with Harry, but Rowling takes the Humanism to it's logical conclusion, whereas Tolkien keeps some of the aspects of the original Archetype. Peter Parker is kind of in between Frodo and Harry. It depends who is writing the Spidey stories. But they are all variations on a theme. -------------------- "It is like a finger pointing at the moon. don't pay attention to the finger or you will miss all that Heavenly Glory" -- Bruce Lee

Ray243 View Member Profile	Jun 19 2009, 09:45 AM Post #16
Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 195 Joined: 10:41am July 22, 2007	QUOTE(chloe squibbulus @ Jun 7 2009, 04:29 AM) I think my opinion on this is quite different than the first two responses to the question posed by the thread opener. I would characterize Harry not as a Beowulf type at all, but more as an accidental hero. He is not the most brilliant wizard, nor the most powerful, IMO. I think he just happened to be hand-picked by fate (Voldemort actually) and given certain powers accidentally because of his fate (his 'love' protection only came because of Voldemort attacking his mother, and her defending Harry with her life, and his ability to be invulnerable to Voldemort is only because Voldemort accidentally conferred powers onto Harry when he tried to kill him). Otherwise, I personally get the impression that Harry might have lived and died as a reasonably talented wizard, like James and Lily were, who just lived his live in a fairly normal wizarding way. I think it was circumstance, not innate heroic qualities that make Harry both famous and powerful. Harry's ability to love is very unique, but love is not a typical 'heroic' quality. And in most other ways, Harry just isn't a 'heroic' type. He was someone who had the personal capacity and character to live up to one of the greatest tests of a wizard, but it was fate that put him there. So I guess I don't really see him at all in the same light as an archetypal hero in the mold of a Beowulf or Batman type character. If he is able to be a hero and then go back to his 'normal' wizard life, it is more because he was never the demi-God hero in the first place. Hear! Hear! That's why reading certain fanfiction can be annoying from time to time. There are a number of good(depends on your opinion) who writes Harry as another beowulf because he is the choosen one or something like that. That they simply reject the notion Harry Potter is different from some dragonball Z anime where the hero always has some sort of epic duel with his or her ultimate nemesis. I guess that's because they keep reading about the HP stories from Harry's point of view, that they started to think that Harry is just like them. That the fanfic author and Harry shares the same personality, even though Harry do have a unique personality by himself. Hence, the write themselves into Harry without realising it, and like many people with flaws, has a tendency to create a dreamworld where Harry is some sort of beowulf with minimum flaws. Their version of Harry never seems to pay for any mistakes being made.

Ravenclaw_Runner... Ravenclaw_Runner92 View Member Profile	Jun 19 2009, 10:20 AM Post #17
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 521 Joined: 7:56pm December 28, 2008 Location: Quidditch Pitch, team practice	QUOTE(Gandalf's Beard @ Jun 10 2009, 12:07 AM) Ravenclaw Runner, for the traditional archetype of the Wounded Hero the wounds run too deep, the Gnosis attained during the Quest too enlightening, the Hero becomes too alienated and too Deified to ever truly go home again. Cooncatbob is on the right track regarding Harry Potter. For all his alienation, he has friends and family (the Weasleys) who have shared his journey and his pain and help him overcome it. And in the end, Rowling tweaks the archetype and Humanizes her Hero; he's a regular guy, not a demi-god. Frodo shares this quality with Harry, but Rowling takes the Humanism to it's logical conclusion, whereas Tolkien keeps some of the aspects of the original Archetype. Gandalf's Beard, I really like your comment. I think it puts to words really well what I was thinking. A Humanized Archetype seems like a very good classification for Harry. -------------------- "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

Gandalf's Beard View Member Profile	Jun 19 2009, 11:34 AM Post #18
Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 170 Joined: 6:47am April 30, 2009 Location: Gandalf's Chin	Thanks Ravenclaw Runner . The cool thing about archetypes is that they are mutable and adaptable to new eras. The Parker/Potter Archetype is a new modern Humanist version of the more ancient archetype--the Everyman as Hero. -------------------- "It is like a finger pointing at the moon. don't pay attention to the finger or you will miss all that Heavenly Glory" -- Bruce Lee

ShanksForte View Member Profile	Jun 19 2009, 12:28 PM Post #19
Monster Book Stacker Posts: 358 Joined: 9:13am August 11, 2007	Interestingly enough, Harry Potter didn't fight "for" wizarding society, in a way he fought so that he could be a part of wizarding society. Ever since book 1 he's been fighting to be part of wizarding society, that's why some of the most dramatic portions of the series are when he's going to get kicked out of the school, and why it's so dramatic when he ditches his 7th year. -------------------- Dumbledore has a posse. "Listening to the news! Again?" "Well, it changes every day, you see."

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