What Would Harry, Hermione, and Ron Think of Tolkien?, Would Ron Know a Hobbit If He Saw One? |
 Jan 4 2008, 12:00 AM
Post
#1
|
|
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 515 Joined: 1:37pm September 7, 2007 Location: Azkaban, Practicing my Patronus   |
Harry, Ron, and Hermione -- all born around 1980 -- came into "The World of HP" decades after J. R. R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy was published. Now I doubt that Dudley would ever have touched the books, even if they were in the house (unless to be used as a projectile against his favorite "punching bag"). Harry might have gravitated more to the books if he could grab hold of a copy, and if he could discipline himself to sit down and read (?) them. The Council of Elrond could have given him some ideas for Dumbledore's Army; not to mention some strategies for dealing with Horcruxes (Horcri) and Voldemort.
Ron's never heard of them; except with regards to his father's raids and collections of Muggle Artifacts. Hermione, on the other hand, can tell you on which page of The Fellowship Gandalf the Grey complains about "Cold Feet." The battle scenes, perhaps in her opinion, are absolutely barbaric. Maybe this is where she developed such a keen interest in House Elves??? What would she think of Eowyn's love for Aragorn, and her great desire for valor (death in battle)? And what of the "magic" of the "Little People", Hobbits? (Bilbo's Prologue explains that they have no known magic.) Would Hermione suspect that there might really be such a thing as an Ent? Or is that just silly story stuff? Did Tom Riddle read? What about this muggle publication (with made up languages -- very unlike Parseltongue)? (I bet Dumbledore loved it -- couldn't wait to try the ring on himself?) -------------------- In troubled times, it is often better to remember simple pleasures - family, virtue, and character - rather than to succumb to the woesome distractions of desire, defeat, and disillusionment. ELC
|
 |
 
 
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 12:06 AM
Post
#2
|
|
Monster Book Stacker Posts: 384 Joined: 7:15pm November 18, 2007 Location: Changing the color of Voldy's robes to pink, as he lay in his grave. |
Dood...that sounds great n all, and I think I agree with everything you've said, but it makes me sad because now I'm thinking JK stole the idea!
-------------------- [[Tell me who made my avatar!]] |
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 12:09 AM
Post
#3
|
|
Being Chosen by a Wand at Ollivander's Posts: 2,977 Joined: 12:37pm April 28, 2007 |
It depends. Tolkien in the HP universe could be a wizard historians whose books were accidently leaked to the Muggle community.
And there is that quote about the War book : Catch-22, People who weren't there think it's fiction. So maybe that is how Tolkien's stories are viewed in the real world--real history that Muggles think of myths--like Merlin and King Arthur. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 04:54 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 36 Joined: 8:16am October 12, 2007 |
QUOTE(Maime the Hunter @ Jan 4 2008, 12:09 AM)  It depends. Tolkien in the HP universe could be a wizard historians whose books were accidently leaked to the Muggle community. And there is that quote about the War book : Catch-22, People who weren't there think it's fiction. So maybe that is how Tolkien's stories are viewed in the real world--real history that Muggles think of myths--like Merlin and King Arthur. I am not sure. We are talking of two fantasy series here, two stories that belong to the same genre. King Arthur and Merlin's tale survived over the centuries, so it can be considered magical history. But Tolkien created an entire universe which is separate from ours, this is what Rowling did a few decades later. In my opinion, these two worlds have certain common traits, but they are different. The fact that there isn't much distance between them in terms of time makes it difficult for them to be linked in the way it is suggested in this topic. The influences of Tolkien on Rowling are evident, esp in the first book, one cannot avoid the parallel between the Philosopher's Stone and the ring, or the three friends that form a kind of fellowship. But there's nothing bad in that. And I couldn't say that Rowling "stole" the idea, she was just inspired by a fantasy tale to create another fantasy tale. I somehow can't see Hermione reading "The Lord of the Rings", basically because there are different principles and rules of magic involved in the "Harry Potter" series. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 08:13 AM
Post
#5
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 17 Joined: 7:31pm January 3, 2008 Location: Thats a very good Question... |
I think Hermione would be shocked at the Battle Scenes. Considering Helm's Deep, with Uruk-Hai gladly using anything they have to hand to batter their Elvish and Human foes to death, it's great, but gruesome.
Ron would love the battle scenes and yawn at everything else! Which is, by the way, 89% of the Book. Harry would be amazed at Gandalf's Power. I love the bit in RoTK, when Gandalf just says to the most powerful Wizard ever, "Your Staff is broken." After shrugging off a fireball aswell. I think Gandalf would murder Voldemort, he'd just sidestep Avada Kedavra, before impaling him on his sword. But Tolkien went far beyond what most writers did, and so did Rowling (but to a lesser degree), and created a World that if you understand it, can become a dream of Heroic Last Stands and Willing Charges to the Death. I think that would have inspired the Harry Potter Kids. --------------------  Never was so much owed by so many to so few. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 11:29 AM
Post
#6
|
|
Iconista Posts: 1,291 Joined: 11:35pm January 7, 2007 Location: Forks |
Ron would probably think that a hobbit was some creepy little creature i'm sure
-------------------- |
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 01:17 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Being Chosen by a Wand at Ollivander's Posts: 2,977 Joined: 12:37pm April 28, 2007 |
QUOTE I am not sure. We are talking of two fantasy series here, two stories that belong to the same genre. King Arthur and Merlin's tale survived over the centuries, so it can be considered magical history. That is not what I meant.Take Nicolas Flamel. There was a real Nicolas Flamel and it is said he did search for the Sorcerer's Stone. He and John Dee, another alchemist, show up in fantasy novels and movie often as long lived characters. What I meant is, Jo could easily create a sitiuation in her Universe where Tolkien was a wizard historian, but maybe a his works were leaked to the Muggle populace, or on the way to Hogwarts a load of the books ended up in a Muggle bookstore and were sold out before they could be retreived. Rather try to remove them, the wizard world allowed the Muggles to believe that the stories were fictions. In other words, Jo could use the books as she does the legend of Nicolas Flamel--a plot device. This post has been edited by Maime the Hunter: Jan 4 2008, 01:18 PM |
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 04:01 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 515 Joined: 1:37pm September 7, 2007 Location: Azkaban, Practicing my Patronus |
QUOTE(Maime the Hunter @ Jan 4 2008, 06:17 PM) QUOTE I am not sure. We are talking of two fantasy series here, two stories that belong to the same genre. King Arthur and Merlin's tale survived over the centuries, so it can be considered magical history. That is not what I meant.Take Nicolas Flamel. There was a real Nicolas Flamel and it is said he did search for the Sorcerer's Stone. He and John Dee, another alchemist, show up in fantasy novels and movie often as long lived characters. What I meant is, Jo could easily create a sitiuation in her Universe where Tolkien was a wizard historian, but maybe a his works were leaked to the Muggle populace, or on the way to Hogwarts a load of the books ended up in a Muggle bookstore and were sold out before they could be retreived. Rather try to remove them, the wizard world allowed the Muggles to believe that the stories were fictions. In other words, Jo could use the books as she does the legend of Nicolas Flamel--a plot device. My guess is that both the Evans and Dursley (Vernon's & Marge's parents) families would have owned the trilogy, as Tolkien was a noted professor at Oxford. Although his "story" is told in fantasy, it is largely based upon his experiences as a soldier in WWI. By rights, The Lord of the Rings would be a very respected work of modern fiction, with many ethical themes presented. Vernon and Petunia, however, seem to want "nothing" to do with fantasy (magical or otherwise). If so, then perhaps any book of the series found at 4 Privet Drive would belong to a cohort of Dudley's, or perhaps a forgotten library book. Colin Creevy has probably read The Hobbit at least 11 times. Lily probably read the series all the way through; Petunia probably got through the first half of The Fellowship. Snape (muggle father) may have read them -- and probably rewrote them to suit his interests. Madam Pince probably has a set at the Hogwarts Library, in the restricted section. Lilly probably shared them with James, Lupin, Peter, and Sirius; who probably looked at them -- though I don't know if Sirius took them seriously  . (Sorry, just had to put that in!)edit to include set at Hogwarts This post has been edited by Ex Libres Cogito: Jan 4 2008, 04:05 PM -------------------- In troubled times, it is often better to remember simple pleasures - family, virtue, and character - rather than to succumb to the woesome distractions of desire, defeat, and disillusionment. ELC
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 4 2008, 05:54 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Junior Dishwasher at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 615 Joined: 12:38pm January 26, 2007 Location: Sacsahuamán's Magical Academy |
I just can see the next title of Gilderoy's next book (after leaving St. Mungo): To Arda and beyond... ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 5 2008, 07:37 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 36 Joined: 8:16am October 12, 2007 |
QUOTE(Maime the Hunter @ Jan 4 2008, 01:17 PM) QUOTE I am not sure. We are talking of two fantasy series here, two stories that belong to the same genre. King Arthur and Merlin's tale survived over the centuries, so it can be considered magical history. That is not what I meant.Take Nicolas Flamel. There was a real Nicolas Flamel and it is said he did search for the Sorcerer's Stone. He and John Dee, another alchemist, show up in fantasy novels and movie often as long lived characters. What I meant is, Jo could easily create a sitiuation in her Universe where Tolkien was a wizard historian, but maybe a his works were leaked to the Muggle populace, or on the way to Hogwarts a load of the books ended up in a Muggle bookstore and were sold out before they could be retreived. Rather try to remove them, the wizard world allowed the Muggles to believe that the stories were fictions. In other words, Jo could use the books as she does the legend of Nicolas Flamel--a plot device. Yes, but aren't there different principles involved in the two different book series? I don't see how Rowling could use The Lord of the Rings in her plot, as for example, she gives a totally different presentation of elves in her books. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is not even certain that Tolkien's Middle Earth is a distant past in human history, I had the impression as I read the books that the land where these things were happening was unspecified. That is what differentiates the two series a lot, in my opinion. The Harry Potter universe exists simultaneously with the world we perceive as real. Many things from it can be used as plot devices should Rowling choose to do so (and she did). But with Middle Earth, a totally different world that makes magical appear normal and fantasy creatures accepted by humans as real, it just doesn't seem plausible to me. |
|
|
|
