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Harry's Muggle relatives in COS, The Dursleys re-examined
WaggaWaggaWerewo...
post Dec 7 2007, 04:26 PM
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Who would have thought that according to JKR's website today, that Harry and Dudley would end up on 'Christmas card' terms, and that Harry and his family would even visit Dudley occasionally? Though these are occasions that Harry's children might well dread, and I am not sure how Dudley's family would react to Ginny, who doesn't take nonsense from anyone.

I wonder if Petunia would make any gorgeous violet bedecked puddings if Harry came visiting, like the one she made for the Masons in Chamber of Secrets? Would Uncle Vernon want to entertain grand nieces and nephews with jokes? Or would Harry's children worry about getting shut up in a room by themselves with limited access to a bathroom?

So far in the Dursley's story of housing their much disliked cousin, they have found themselves inundated with owls, stuck in a shack with a giant beating down the door, and Uncle Vernon told in no uncertain terms what sort of 'prune' he was. Who can forget the pig's tail Dudders has had to endure? And what did Petunia say about her sister and Harry being 'freaks'? Now we come to the second book, and see more of the Dursleys in action. What have the Dursleys learned, if anything, from their experiences of the previous year?

Just how many prejudices has Vernon displayed so far in the books? What sort of host does Uncle Vernon show himself to be by excluding Harry from this important family dinner? And why, if Petunia knows more about the Wizarding World than she admits, does she punish Harry anyway?


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Granjo Granger
post Dec 7 2007, 10:06 PM
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I can see Dudley and Harry developing a low key relationship, where they simply stay in touch through cards and brief visits. If Dudley has matured and really grown through his self examination, he would probably leave his parents out of the mix. Let me reword that. Wisdom would dictate that they all leave his parents out of the mix. Petunia will be even more bitter now that her own son has decided to like his cousin. Vernon probably gets more blustery and irrelevant as time goes on. If Dudley knows what's good for him, he lives several hundred miles away from his parents, is dutiful, and keeps his own council.


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rowena r
post Dec 8 2007, 03:39 AM
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QUOTE
I can see Dudley and Harry developing a low key relationship, where they simply stay in touch through cards and brief visits. If Dudley has matured and really grown through his self examination, he would probably leave his parents out of the mix. Let me reword that. Wisdom would dictate that they all leave his parents out of the mix. Petunia will be even more bitter now that her own son has decided to like his cousin. Vernon probably gets more blustery and irrelevant as time goes on. If Dudley knows what's good for him, he lives several hundred miles away from his parents, is dutiful, and keeps his own council.


I totally agree Granjo Granger. IMO Dudley would have become a better person if only Petunia and Vernon had brought him up more carefully. As it turned out, Dudley took a step in the right direction not because of his parents, but in spite of them. DD put the whole thing more succintly and bluntly than anyone could. The words 'appalling damage' seem to be about right to me.

I'm happy that Dudley did see sense eventually going to the extent of shaking Harry's hand and later exchanging christmas cards. It would have been a great loss for Dudley if he hadn't; but even then, I doubt he really knows what his cousin was capable of.

The idea of his children and Harry's children getting together is very funny - I can imagine James coming up with umpteen ways to scare/harass/annoy/shock/etc. them every time they met although Harry would have warned him to be on his best behaviour whenever they came or went on a visit. biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by rowena r: Dec 8 2007, 03:40 AM


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WaggaWaggaWerewo...
post Dec 8 2007, 05:00 AM
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QUOTE(Granjo Granger @ Dec 8 2007, 02:06 PM) *
I can see Dudley and Harry developing a low key relationship, where they simply stay in touch through cards and brief visits. If Dudley has matured and really grown through his self examination, he would probably leave his parents out of the mix. Let me reword that. Wisdom would dictate that they all leave his parents out of the mix. Petunia will be even more bitter now that her own son has decided to like his cousin. Vernon probably gets more blustery and irrelevant as time goes on. If Dudley knows what's good for him, he lives several hundred miles away from his parents, is dutiful, and keeps his own council.


I can't quite agree. Petunia might be bitter about Lily then Harry, but in DH was going all gaga because she thought Dudley (at long last) was doing the right thing. It is hard for some people to admit they might be wrong and might have even (to coin a relatively polite word) loused up someone else's life. I'm sure you are right, that Vernon gets more blustery and irrelevant as time goes by. He probably still remembers ruined puddings and a Ford Anglia breaking down the window bars he so carefully constructed. Uncle Vernon, as the head of household, has a certain idea of his self-importance, and I am not sure that Dedalus Diggle and Hestia Jones can knock that idea from his head, nor any regrets Vernon has about that lost Mason contract. I wonder if he still tries to impress people with that joke about the Japanese golfer.

It is good to know that Dudley has learned a thing or two since he taunted Harry about his lack of mail and loss of friends in the opening chapters of COS, and it is nice to know that he has graduated from his COS unfriendliness to exchanging Christmas cards. But all the same, I bet that Harry and his family would never get the Mason welcome from any of the Dursleys.


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padfootbitme
post Dec 8 2007, 01:40 PM
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I think that Harry and Dudley became quit close after everything that happen. I would like to think that even if his parents didn't aprove of the relationship, Dudley would be man enough to listen to his heart and know that Harry was never gonna hurt him.
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sver/nor
post Dec 8 2007, 04:39 PM
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I also agree that Dudley Dursley continued to mature as time went on. I'm glad that Harry and he were able to have a friendly relationship, exchanging Christmas cards, and on occasion visits to each other. However, visiting Harry would entail Keacher, which might be a problem to Dudley's family.

Petunia and Vernon Dursley would definitely not be a part of the equation here. Vernon is and has always been a git. He has such a high opinion of himself that I doubt that his stay at the safe house that the OOTP fixed up for the Dursleys during the trio's adventures, had any affect on Vernon at all. I think that Petunia has frozen into her bitterness now, and can't change her behavior for the better. Maybe if Vernon's high blood pressure resulted in an untimely demise, she might, just might make an improvement in her attitude, and be willing to let go of her animosity towards Harry.


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WaggaWaggaWerewo...
post Dec 10 2007, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE(sver/nor @ Dec 9 2007, 08:39 AM) *
I also agree that Dudley Dursley continued to mature as time went on. I'm glad that Harry and he were able to have a friendly relationship, exchanging Christmas cards, and on occasion visits to each other. However, visiting Harry would entail Keacher, which might be a problem to Dudley's family.


Oh I don't think that Kreacher would be a big problem to Dudley's family. During DH he cleaned up remarkably well. Petunia might even be impressed with the good service he gave them to help 'master'. I expect that even Dudley understood what happened in COS, when Dobby stopped Harry's mail. And I think that even Dudley recognises by now that to have friends you need to be a friend.

QUOTE
Petunia and Vernon Dursley would definitely not be a part of the equation here. Vernon is and has always been a git. He has such a high opinion of himself that I doubt that his stay at the safe house that the OOTP fixed up for the Dursleys during the trio's adventures, had any affect on Vernon at all. I think that Petunia has frozen into her bitterness now, and can't change her behavior for the better. Maybe if Vernon's high blood pressure resulted in an untimely demise, she might, just might make an improvement in her attitude, and be willing to let go of her animosity towards Harry.


Yes, Vernon does have a high opinion of himself. It was interesting to see in COS how much he was prepared to grovel to please the Masons, if he thought he was going to get something out of it.


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momwitch
post Dec 10 2007, 02:24 PM
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Well...I could be going out on a limb here, but perhaps part of Vernon and Petunia's treatment of Harry stemmed from a fear that Harry would "turn" Dudders into a wizard, himself. As we see with his encounter of the Dementors, Dudley was able to sense them on a lower level, so although he wasn't a full blown wizard, he was more sensitive to Magic than either of his parents were. Also thrown into the mix was that Petunia felt ostracized from her sister because of Lily's pronounced "magicalness" - would Dudley ostracize her in a similar manner if he was chosen for Hogwarts? It would just add insult to injury if Dudley turned out to be "worthy", and Petunia was not, even after her impassioned plea to Dumbledore. Would magic take away her son like her sister was "taken" from her?

Many parents of children with "exceptional" abilities can feel threatened when they have no understanding or control over their child. By coddling Dudley, they fostered in him a sense of dependence upon themselves, that all good things came from them, and not through his own merits. In DH, Dudley finally takes a stance away from his parents' expectations which at first shocks them, but then they seem to realize that his actions fall right into their belief of "keeping up appearances", so no matter what really motivated Dudley to extending his hand to Harry, they can rationalize to themselves that they "brought him up right".

To me, it seems that Dudley was being genuine towards Harry in that scene. If his wife was a Muggle of his parents' ilk, however, it is just as easy to explain to her that Harry is family, and the occasional visit and annual Christmas Card is well within the "proper" etiquette rules - (and it also keeps an open line of communication with Harry because he wanted to). Also, by making Harry and his family "familiar" (especially with Ginny's "no nonsense" approach) if one of Dudder's own children had abilities, he could consult Harry in the best way to "deal" with them and ease his wife into the possibility of sending that child to "Harry's" school. Having cousins there would certainly help assuage any fears which his wife might have - especially if she was confident that Ginny was "normal" and was on friendly speaking terms with her.


This post has been edited by momwitch: Dec 10 2007, 02:28 PM


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lcguinea
post Dec 11 2007, 02:13 PM
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I think that the relation between Harry and Dudley will be a good relation and maybe his sons will be good friends, about Petunia and Vernon I think that they prefer to don't see Harry again because they feel bad about doing all that bad things to Harry, and after all he saved their life.
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WaggaWaggaWerewo...
post Dec 19 2007, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE(momwitch @ Dec 11 2007, 06:24 AM) *
Well...I could be going out on a limb here, but perhaps part of Vernon and Petunia's treatment of Harry stemmed from a fear that Harry would "turn" Dudders into a wizard, himself. As we see with his encounter of the Dementors, Dudley was able to sense them on a lower level, so although he wasn't a full blown wizard, he was more sensitive to Magic than either of his parents were. Also thrown into the mix was that Petunia felt ostracized from her sister because of Lily's pronounced "magicalness" - would Dudley ostracize her in a similar manner if he was chosen for Hogwarts? It would just add insult to injury if Dudley turned out to be "worthy", and Petunia was not, even after her impassioned plea to Dumbledore. Would magic take away her son like her sister was "taken" from her?


Now that is an interesting point of view. biggrin.gif I know the Dursleys feared magic and that was part of their problem with it. But I think what worried the Dursleys more is Dudley turning into something. That pig's tail must have scared them. What would people think if Dudley turned up at school with something like that?

I thought Petunia ostracized Lily, not the other way round. It was Petunia who called Lily a freak. And Petunia extended the term to Harry as well.

QUOTE
In DH, Dudley finally takes a stance away from his parents' expectations which at first shocks them, but then they seem to realize that his actions fall right into their belief of "keeping up appearances", so no matter what really motivated Dudley to extending his hand to Harry, they can rationalize to themselves that they "brought him up right".


Well yes, but in COS where it was most important to show the Masons that Dudley was 'brought up right', the Dursleys failed miserably. Why did they debar Harry from that family dinner? All they did was show that there was someone regarded as strange in the family.


QUOTE
To me, it seems that Dudley was being genuine towards Harry in that scene. If his wife was a Muggle of his parents' ilk, however, it is just as easy to explain to her that Harry is family, and the occasional visit and annual Christmas Card is well within the "proper" etiquette rules - (and it also keeps an open line of communication with Harry because he wanted to). Also, by making Harry and his family "familiar" (especially with Ginny's "no nonsense" approach) if one of Dudder's own children had abilities, he could consult Harry in the best way to "deal" with them and ease his wife into the possibility of sending that child to "Harry's" school. Having cousins there would certainly help assuage any fears which his wife might have - especially if she was confident that Ginny was "normal" and was on friendly speaking terms with her.


Yes, it makes a huge difference when Harry and Dudley have their own families and don't have to share house space. Christmas cards and visiting is one thing. But living under the same roof together, where Harry is only allowed begrudged house room, is quite something else.


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