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"I'm too old for you ... too poor ... too dangerous.", And other romances in HBP.

rowena r View Member Profile	Mar 23 2008, 11:38 AM Post #1
Dumbledore's Personal Secretary Posts: 4,980 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss.	Nymphadora Tonks - the pink-haired, bubbly, chatterbox of OOTP is replaced with a mousy looking, moody, taciturn young woman in HBP. What caused this sudden transformation ? It is only in the end that we know for sure the reason for her nervous manner and sudden tears over the year. Tonks has fallen in love with Remus Lupin, a werewolf. But Remus refuses to hear anything on the subject. Do you think Remus loved Tonks as much as she loved him ? From the beginning ? Did you guess correctly the reason for Tonks' change ? Harry notes the change in her, and indeed it would be hard not to, she doesn't laugh at all and hardly even talks. We learn from Snape that her patronus changes form to mirror her feelings. It is only after Dumbledore's death and the resultant scene in the hospital wing that we get to knoe who Tonks has been pining for. Remus is shaken by the front of his robes and told that Tonks doesn't care who, how or what he is. What do you think of his statement, "I'm too old for you ... too poor ... too dangerous," to a determenined Tonks ? What exactly did he mean by dangerous ? do you think they made a good couple ? We see Fleur/Phlegm announcing her engagement to Bill quite early in HBP. Molly and Ginny are not too happy with the idea though. Things seem to be going along fine but then comes the fight with the DEs. Bill is horribly scarred, and the handsome looks he had are replaced with a Moody like countenance. Molly is sure that Fleur, whom she suspected to be superficial would no longer want to marry her son. But Fleur, to everyone's surprise declares that Bill's scars do not make a pennworth of difference to her love for him, and we have a happy ending. Did you like Fleur in the beginning of HBP ? Did you change your opinion later ? Do you think they are suited for each other ? What did you think Fleur would do when she saw her fiance with his face all messed up ? Do you think that incident had some influence in the Remus-Tonks scenario ? Who can forget won-won ? Ron and Lavender get together for some days causing Hermione to first set birds on him and then ignore his existence. Why did Ron do it ? Did he really care for Lavender at that point of time ? Or did he just want to show Hermione that there were people who wanted to kiss him too ? And what was it that made him want to get out of it later ? Ah ! Now we come to Harry and Ginny. HBP gives us what a lot of us were waiting for - the first Harry-Ginny kiss. After 6 years of waiting, Ginny finally gets what she wanted from the second she saw Harry - his love. Did you think they would get together in HBP ? What was it that made it happen ? Ginny breaking up with Dean, Harry realising at long last Ginny was the one for him, the quidditch cup, or all of them together ? What did you think would be Ron's reaction ? And Hermione's ? Did Harry have to distance himself from Ginny at the end of HBP ? This thread is for all questions and theories on romances in HBP, so give us your views on everything to do with the Empress of Emotions ~ Love. This post has been edited by rowena r: Mar 25 2008, 11:06 AM -------------------- L O V E

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Replies (10 - 15)

Shnoing View Member Profile	Apr 21 2008, 03:07 PM Post #11
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 141 Joined: 3:56am February 21, 2008 Location: Commuting between Ravenclaw Common Room and the Room of Hidden Things	QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 06:38 PM) Do you think Remus loved Tonks as much as she loved him ? From the beginning ? Did you guess correctly the reason for Tonks' change ? ... What do you think of his statement, "I'm too old for you ... too poor ... too dangerous," to a determenined Tonks ? What exactly did he mean by dangerous ? do you think they made a good couple ? When we bear in mind that Remus' best friend was married already some 17 years earlier and had died some 15 years earlier one can imagine that for Remus the 'game is over'. He must have known that out of the students he had met at Hogwarts no one would have accepted him as a partner. When he meets Tonks who must be some 8 to 12 years younger than him he certainly has to get used to the idea of a relationship to someone so much younger. So, he probably was quite sceptical at the beginning. And both of them were on dangerous missions as spies for the OotP (Ministry, Werewolves). QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 06:38 PM) We see Fleur/Phlegm announcing her engagement to Bill quite early in HBP. Molly and Ginny are not too happy with the idea though. Things seem to be going along fine but then comes the fight with the DEs. Bill is horribly scarred, and the handsome looks he had are replaced with a Moody like countenance. Molly is sure that Fleur, whom she suspected to be superficial would no longer want to marry her son. But Fleur, to everyone's surprise declares that Bill's scars do not make a pennworth of difference to her love for him, and we have a happy ending. Did you like Fleur in the beginning of HBP ? Did you change your opinion later ? Do you think they are suited for each other ? What did you think Fleur would do when she saw her fiance with his face all messed up ? Do you think that incident had some influence in the Remus-Tonks scenario ? As soon as Harry starts to say something in favour of Fleur at the beginning of HBP he gets cut off by Ginny. At that point I had the impression that he had got a point and Ginny was just behaving childish. I think ther's a nice symmetry between Fleur's 'unnatural' (veela) beauty and Bill's 'unnatural' (werewolfish) scars. It sort of balances. QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 06:38 PM) Who can forget won-won ? Ron and Lavender get together for some days causing Hermione to first set birds on him and then ignore his existence. Why did Ron do it ? Did he really care for Lavender at that point of time ? Or did he just want to show Hermione that there were people who wanted to kiss him too ? And what was it that made him want to get out of it later ? From relatively early on we see that Ron and Lavender share an opinion regarding feelings that Hermione despises, starting with the bunny incident in PoA. Btw, Harry asks Lavender on Ron's behalf to the Jule Ball in GoF. Why shouldn't Ron care for a classmate of six years? On the other hand, he seems to have been carried away by his post-winning-the-cup euphoria which he seems to regret after the effects have worn off: obviously he has gotten used to having an intellectual female person around so he isn't satisfied with Lavender's (relative) shallowness. So with five and a half year of being around Ron Hermione has succeeded in making some impression, after all (though she doubts it herself). QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 06:38 PM) Ah ! Now we come to Harry and Ginny. HBP gives us what a lot of us were waiting for - the first Harry-Ginny kiss. After 6 years of waiting, Ginny finally gets what she wanted from the second she saw Harry - his love. Did you think they would get together in HBP ? What was it that made it happen ? Ginny breaking up with Dean, Harry realising at long last Ginny was the one for him, the quidditch cup, or all of them together ? What did you think would be Ron's reaction ? And Hermione's ? Did Harry have to distance himself from Ginny at the end of HBP ? I think it was the fact that Ginny had to play Seeker because of the Sectumsempra incident. Only then did she have the position to approach Harry as an equal (at the other matches, he was her Captain, after all). Harry's decision to distance himself from Ginny after DD's death was due to the fact that he believed to be the remaining leader of the anti-Voldemort movement and the only one to be able to finish LV. We can only speculate what he would have done if he had known Snape's role in the following year.

WaggaWaggaWerewo... WaggaWaggaWerewolf View Member Profile	Apr 21 2008, 06:58 PM Post #12
Madame Pince's House Elf Posts: 4,716 Joined: 5:46pm January 28, 2005 Location: In HP Book Club 5, awaiting Deathly Hallow's release.	QUOTE(Star of Isis @ Apr 12 2008, 10:43 AM) QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 05:38 PM) Do you think Remus loved Tonks as much as she loved him ? From the beginning ? Did you guess correctly the reason for Tonks' change ? It didn't even cross my mind that Tonks was in love with Remus. My first thought was that she fell in love with Sirius and suffered after his death (before even Harry thought about it). But that was just my hope that Sirius was finally granted some love before his death... Later, after Snape's remark about her Patronus, I assumed that maybe she was an impostor... You know change in Patronus, change in hair colour – things that can't be properly imitated even under the Polyjuice Potion (I thought that it would be difficult to impostor a Metamorphmagus's changing features, such as hair)... It's just because we had never seen Remus and Tonks in a romantic scene before... It all happened behind our backs. I'd agree that it didn't cross my mind throughout much of the book that it could be Tonks being in love with Remus. Like Ginny, I was wondering if she might be a more suitable bride for Bill. Ginny actually liked Tonks, and clearly disliked Fleur. But I could also see how Tonks might be depressed over Sirius' death, without romance even being an issue. After all, he was her cousin, in a family not known for closeness, and one of the few members of her family, other than her parents, who would have given her the time of day. Regulus, Sirius' brother, as well as a number of other family members had already died. Sirius' death scene was heart-rending when you consider that it was Bellatrix, his own cousin, and Tonks' aunt, who gave him the coup de grâce. And it is even more depressing that Bellatrix, who was fighting Tonks at the time, would not be satisfied until she killed her own niece, the only child of her sister, Andromeda. That puts Bellatrix's attitude to Draco in sharp relief, now doesn't it? At one point I wondered if Tonks was in that corridor with Harry, not just out of duty, but also out of concern for another family member - her cousin Draco. QUOTE I didn't like Fleur at the beginning and didn't love her at the end. I think that no one can be really in love with a Veela, as no one under Amortentia's influence is really inlove. So I was on Mrs. Weasley's side when she wanted someone else for Bill. However, I think that a Veela can be really in love with a man, and we saw this after Bill was attacked. I think the point about the Veelas is that when not enraged they symbolise animal magnetism, which they have in bucketloads. The point about Fleur is that whilst she still has all that animal magnetism which she inherited from a Veela grandmother, she still has quite a human heritage, and it is that humanity which justifies the romance between Bill and Fleur. After all, Fleur was still a Triwizard Champion when she met Bill before the third task, and they have had over a year to develop their relationship and to find out what they have in common. Fleur has even got a part-time job in Gringotts 'to eemprove 'er Eenglish'. Fleur can't help her breathtakingly good looks, though I can see how irritated Ginny and Hermione would be with her effect on the other Weasley brothers, especially with inexperienced Ron ogling her all the time, maybe following her around like a lost puppy. The trouble is that at the beginning of HBP she is behaving just like so many other Bridezillas, tactlessly flaunting her attractiveness whilst planning her all-absorbing wedding, and Mrs Weasley might feel justified in thinking that she was just the same sort of shallow girl like Lavender, or worse still, Romilda, rushing Bill into romance and marriage with her as if it was a competition, rather than a momentous step to take in life, which can go seriously awry. As it happened, Fleur's handling of Bill's injuries at the end of HBP was the deciding factor. Mrs Weasley recognised that underneath all the preoccupation with a glamourous wedding, Fleur really did care for Bill, and their marriage would go ahead to eventually give Mr and Mrs Weasley three no doubt adored grandchildren. QUOTE(Schnoing) As soon as Harry starts to say something in favour of Fleur at the beginning of HBP he gets cut off by Ginny. At that point I had the impression that he had got a point and Ginny was just behaving childish. I think ther's a nice symmetry between Fleur's 'unnatural' (veela) beauty and Bill's 'unnatural' (werewolfish) scars. It sort of balances. Yes the Fleur and Bill marriage is so like Beauty and the Beast, isn't it? To do Ginny justice, she did think that Fleur was the triumphant winner and that Bill would be better off with Tonks, whom she thought was pining for him. So until Tonks declared her love openly for Remus, that might have been her main reason for opposing Fleur. But what about what her brothers would say about her own romantic episodes? Here, too, it is relevant to ask (as did HealerOne, in one of the Lily and Stag Reading Groups): Why do you think it's important that Ginny, like her mother, accepts Fleur and Bill's relationship? (HealerOne) What is so problematical if family members don't accept one's romance? And this brings us back to, not only Harry's worries about his attraction to Ginny, but also Tonks and Lupin. Realistically, Lupin knew he was a pariah among pariahs. Even if he didn't go through agony once a month in enduring a lifelong and possibly hereditary condition, he knew thanks to Umbridge, that he was prevented from getting employment which would enable him to support a family. He knew how Sirius' family and her own sisters had treated Andromeda, Tonks' mother, and that he, Lupin, would be the most unwelcome choice of husband that anyone in her family could have wanted. I agree that he still loved Tonks, to even be concerned about what might happen if she married him. This post has been edited by WaggaWaggaWerewolf: Apr 21 2008, 07:14 PM -------------------- Check out Book Number 5 POA edition.

VoodooPadfoot View Member Profile	Apr 23 2008, 02:19 PM Post #13
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies Posts: 679 Joined: 6:46am January 1, 2008 Location: Wishing she was in the Live Lounge	Do you think Remus loved Tonks as much as she loved him? I really do think he did, I just think that firstly he's not as good at expressing himself and secondly he loves her so much but just can't understand why she would love him. He hates being a werewolf and he wouldn't want to inflict his illness on anyone because he is such a caring person, especially not somone he loves as much a Tonks. From the beginning? Yes, although I do think it would have been Tonks who made the first move, not only for the above reasons but she is a lot more confident than dear Remus. Did you guess correctly the reason for Tonks' change ? Well, i've kind of been a Wotcher Wolvie fan since "Don't call me Nymphadora, Remus." but I really thought that it was never going to happen, it was completley non-canon. Ergo, I can't say I guessed at all the reason for Tonks' change, however I was inclined to the "emotional upheavel" stuff, but I thought (like Harry) that this was about the death of Sirius. -Aggi. x -------------------- "Harry Potter isn't everything ... but it's right up there with Oxygen!

Werewolves Rule View Member Profile	Aug 5 2009, 07:57 PM Post #14
Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 47 Joined: 7:55pm August 4, 2009 Location: Middle of nowhere, help me find my way out!	The whole Tonks and Remus thing was nice, but I think Remus should of gone for someone older, I like the ship, but its just weird, too weird for me. Though Teddy, he just seems cute, really cute. ~WR's

morgiana View Member Profile	Aug 5 2009, 11:32 PM Post #15
Monster Book Stacker Posts: 368 Joined: 12:00am March 9, 2007	QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 09:38 AM) Do you think Remus loved Tonks as much as she loved him ? From the beginning ? Did you guess correctly the reason for Tonks' change ? ... What do you think of his statement, "I'm too old for you ... too poor ... too dangerous," to a determenined Tonks ? What exactly did he mean by dangerous ? do you think they made a good couple ? The Remus/Tonks relationship was a surprise to me. I believe, though, that Remus truly loved Tonks. He just didn't love himself, so while he was grateful that someone was able to love him, he probably didn't understand WHY. It made sense that he considered himself dangerous; without his Wolfsbane potion each month, he WAS dangerous. But as long as he took the necessary precautions each month, it wouldn't have been a problem. I think Remus and Tonks as a couple balanced each other out: Remus who was older, wiser, and less impulsive could be a calming, steadying influence on Tonks, while Tonks who was more optimistic and high-spirited could help Remus to have a brighter outlook on life. QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 09:38 AM) Did you like Fleur in the beginning of HBP ? Did you change your opinion later ? Do you think they are suited for each other ? What did you think Fleur would do when she saw her fiance with his face all messed up ? Do you think that incident had some influence in the Remus-Tonks scenario ? I initially saw Fleur as a haughty, superficial character and was pretty indifferent toward her. When she stood by Bill despite what had happened to him, she finally reminded me of the girl who was brave and determined enough to tackle the Tri-wizard Tournament and who cared far more about family than about losing the Second Task. She and Bill both had faced danger and hardship, had remained strong and resolute throughout, and (I thought) would continue to stand by and support each other no matter what. So I think they made a strong couple. QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 09:38 AM) Why did Ron do it ? Did he really care for Lavender at that point of time ? Or did he just want to show Hermione that there were people who wanted to kiss him too ? And what was it that made him want to get out of it later ? I think if Ginny hadn't belittled Ron for his lack of experience, he wouldn't have run straight to Lavender. He had been jealous of Krum since GoF, but hadn't done anything about it until the fight with Ginny, so that event was probably the catalyst for him. I really think his relationship with Lavender was as much about one-upping Ginny as it was about showing anything to Hermione. As for Lavender, she wasn't a bad person, but her personality just wasn't compatible with Ron's, so even without Hermione in the picture, the relationship wouldn't have lasted. QUOTE(rowena r @ Mar 23 2008, 09:38 AM) Did you think they would get together in HBP ? What was it that made it happen ? Ginny breaking up with Dean, Harry realising at long last Ginny was the one for him, the quidditch cup, or all of them together ? What did you think would be Ron's reaction ? And Hermione's ? Did Harry have to distance himself from Ginny at the end of HBP ? I figured that Harry and Ginny would get together eventually. In hindsight, HBP was probably the best possible time for their relationship because, for the first time ever, there was no crisis at school to take up Harry's time and energy. He was able to relax and enjoy being a teenager, and in this more relaxed atmosphere, he was able to see Ginny in a new light. They had known each other for years, could work well together, could enjoy leisure time together, and could truly understand each other's experiences with Voldemort in a way that no one else could. The foundation was there; Harry just needed to see it. I expected that Ron would be okay with it, considering his implied approval at the end of OotP, and Hermione would be okay with it, considering that she was pretty close to Ginny. Harry distancing himself from Ginny was a necessary safety measure. The Weasley family was already a target, being "blood traitors", and being Harry Potter's girlfriend would've made Ginny an even bigger target at a time when she would have no Trio, no other siblings, and no Dumbledore at Hogwarts to help her.

PhoenixPassion View Member Profile	Aug 12 2009, 05:46 PM Post #16
Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 45 Joined: 8:50am August 8, 2009	I sympathize with Fleur. Trying to be a part of a big family that is extremely close and has had no new people since Harry Potter is hard. We see no mention of Bill or Charlie having serious loves come by the Burrow before this. Percy had his girlfriend Penelope, but with the disassociation happening right after his graduation there is no chance to see how Mrs. Weasley handled a new woman in her turf. Fleur is the first female to tread the Burrows waters in the capacity of new family member. She is polite to everyone; even if she has her moments of honesty that offended everyone around her. She tries to be helpful around the house and is met with utter hostility from the women. Yet, she takes it all in stride. There is nothing the Weasleys can do that will make her leave, and she proves it when Bill is mutilated. -------------------- 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves. Did gyre and gimble in the wabe. All mimsy were the borogroves. And the mome raths outgrabe.

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