Illegal Use Of Magic By Underage Wizards |
  May 15 2007, 02:41 PM
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#1
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup  Posts: 40 Joined: 6:23pm April 30, 2007 Location: The Room of Requirement practicing my DADA moves  |
I've been listening to book 5 and in the beginning Harry receives the letters from the Ministry about his breaking of the rules of underage wizards performing magic outside of school. It's not the first time he's gotten a letter or gotten in trouble for that: Dobby using magic with the dropping of the pudding, blowing up Aunt Marge, etc. Some of which was magic that he didn't even do or was unintentional.
So we know that the Ministry is able to monitor these actions and act fairly quickly when something happens that is illegal. Why is it then that Harry never received any notice or letter from the Ministry before he even knew about Hogwarts and that he was a wizard. In book 1 you see that he makes the glass disappear from the snake's cage, he regrows his hair after Petunia gives him a horrible haircut and he gets up onto the school roof some how when he is being chased by Dudley and his bullying friends. Could it be because he wasn't officially "registered" and going to a wizarding school? Just some wonderings. 
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May 15 2007, 03:39 PM
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#2
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 346 Joined: 12:02pm May 18, 2006 Location: Not Loafing in the Municipality    |
You could be right, it could be because he wasn't registered at Hogwarts yet, there was no where to threaten to expel him from yet.
Or, it could be that they have an age limit on when they will potentially charge a minor. Like in our world, children under a certain age are not held responsible for there action, and aren't charged. Could be that any wizard/witch below 11 is not considered to be able to intentionally do magic, let alone control it (though they would be wrong when we consider what a young LV was capable off. However, the Ministry has a habit of underestimating people/creatures). Or, it could be that accidental magic is not considered an offence, and that the ministry is capable of determining intentional from accidental. In CoS, Dobby would have used an intentional spell to levitate the dessert, however, in PoS, Harry didn't use (or say) any specific spell, Aunt Petunia just began to expand. Harry didn't get into any trouble for that. Whether that was because of the situation at the time or because what Fudge said about not expelling students for accidentally blowing up their aunts is true, I don't know. Or, it could be that the Dursleys as his guardians got the warning letters and kept them from Harry so that he would not be made aware of his magical capabilities. And once he became 11 the letters began to get addressed to him. Lastly, it could be that previously Dumbledore was stepping in to prevent any thing from happening to Harry, or to keep Harry from finding out that he was a wizard. Dumbledore and others do intervene when Harry has future troubles, and it is possible they did in the past. Dumbledore did say that he wanted Harry to grow up normal, and not with all the fame associated with the night LV was defeated, so maybe he was also preventing Harry from knowing about his past/wizardness by not letting Harry be 'threatened' by the ministry. Lol, okay, so clearly I don't know exactly why, but I have a few ideas to explain why he didn't get warnings when he was younger 
-------------------- Why are all the other numbers afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9! (So lame it's funny)  Member of R.O.Y.A.L.T.Y |
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May 15 2007, 11:48 PM
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#3
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Knight Bus Driver in Training Posts: 592 Joined: 12:05am April 20, 2007 Location: um.. doing something harry-potter-related... in ocala, FLORIDA |
i think magical people under school age cant be charged for whatever magic they do. ..especially ones who are raised by muggles and dont even know magic is real.
i personally think the ministry should inform muggle parents or gardians (since all witches and wizards are on record at the ministry since birth) of the reason why their babys bowl of spinich and broccoli may suddenly change itself into icecream on occasion as the child matures, but i guess that would spoil the suprise now wouldnt it... 
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May 17 2007, 01:18 AM
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#4
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Assistant Shopkeeper at Flourish and Blotts Posts: 1,579 Joined: 9:23pm December 23, 2006 Location: Either at Hogwarts,Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley. |
QUOTE Could it be because he wasn't officially "registered" and going to a wizarding school? Yes this is what I was going to say.It wasn't Harry's fault that he did magic because he didn't know he was a wizard at the time. --------------------  Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy. Enter The World Of Harry Potter |
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May 17 2007, 05:01 AM
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#5
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic  Posts: 9,274 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(potterfan6 @ May 17 2007, 07:18 AM) [snapback]1219381[/snapback] QUOTE Could it be because he wasn't officially "registered" and going to a wizarding school? Yes this is what I was going to say.It wasn't Harry's fault that he did magic because he didn't know he was a wizard at the time.--------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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May 17 2007, 05:13 AM
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#6
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Being Chosen by a Wand at Ollivander's Posts: 2,952 Joined: 8:53am April 20, 2006 Location: Prifysgol Bangor Univeristy, Bangor, Cymru |
I agree with people above. The Minsitry (who liked Dumbledore back then) were keeping an eye on Harry anyways. They would have known exactly what was going on. Maybe the parents might be reprimanded if the were wizards (see girl on broomstick at the Quidditch World Cup) as they themselves would know full well the kid was magical - but Harry is a special case.
I am wondering though, does every magic kid who goes to a muggle Primary School subject to the same kind of bullying as Harry? What if they turned a teacher's wig blue? The Ministry can't modify every teacher's memory becuase there are way to many magic kids in muggle schools. This means there should be a load of depressed lonely kids going into Hogwarts each year shouldn't there? --------------------  "...because if there is one thing I've learned from all I've been through, it's that you only regret the things that you didn't do." Cameron Duncan |
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May 17 2007, 01:08 PM
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#7
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic Posts: 9,274 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(blue_dreamer @ May 17 2007, 11:13 AM) [snapback]1219455[/snapback] I am wondering though, does every magic kid who goes to a muggle Primary School subject to the same kind of bullying as Harry? What if they turned a teacher's wig blue? The Ministry can't modify every teacher's memory becuase there are way to many magic kids in muggle schools. This means there should be a load of depressed lonely kids going into Hogwarts each year shouldn't there? Actually, the books are pretty clear that Harry is only friendless at primary school because no-one wanted to get on the wrong side of Dudley's gang. Other muggle-born children wouldn't have the same problem.
-------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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May 20 2007, 08:40 PM
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#8
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Eeylops Owl Cage Cleaner Posts: 244 Joined: 8:04pm January 4, 2007 |
QUOTE(miss_snuffles @ May 15 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]1217624[/snapback] So we know that the Ministry is able to monitor these actions and act fairly quickly when something happens that is illegal. I was re-reading the Order of the Phoenix where Hermione comes to 12 Grimmauld Place via the Night Bus. In order to do this, she had to pull our her wand. Is it not illegal for an underage witch to pull her wand out in public? ( By that I mean in the street, taking a chance that someone will see). I wonder why the ministry did not send her a warning letter? |
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May 20 2007, 10:10 PM
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#9
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Graphics Guru  Posts: 771 Joined: 8:58pm October 10, 2005 Location: Round on the outside and high in the middle... OHIO! |
What I think is MOST interesting about the Ministry tracking magic usage, is that in both instances, they were able to identify WHAT magic is being performed in both cases, just not by whom. If they knew that Harry had produced a patronus, then couldn't they find out if there were a bunch of charms or hexes being places somewhere odd, like at the Gaunt household? It seems like if Voldemort chose places to hide his horcruxes, where magic is not normally performed, then the Ministry would be on top of it?
If the location and type of magic is seen by the ministry, I think there must be some kind of "Illegal Use of Magic" alarm that goes off when: a) obvious magic is being performed around a muggle-filled area b) when one of the unforgivable curses is used c) when unregistered Portkeys are created are the records of performed magic stored somewhere in the MoM, like surveillance footage might be stored? Would they be able to look a muggle-born child up, to see what kind of magic they performed as a child (since there would be no other wizards around to perform the magic). Why hasn't any magical child discovered that they can perform magic in their wizarding household without getting in trouble? If it's parent-enforced, then the children whose wizarding parents don't enforce the rules have a major advantage... probably why Snape was so accomplished in Dark Arts before coming to Hogwarts. I also think it's odd that they automatically assume it was Harry who performed the magic, when Mundungus Fletcher had disapparated from watching Harry... wouldn't the disapparation have been noticed by the ministry? Does the Order know some kind of protection that would prevent the ministry from detecting their spells? Does Voldemort have that ability, too, to prevent the ministry from guessing where he hid his horcruxes? --------------------  |
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Jun 10 2007, 03:16 PM
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#10
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Getting Fitted for New Dress Robes Posts: 55 Joined: 3:10pm May 15, 2007 |
QUOTE(chocolateisnotforbreakfast @ May 21 2007, 04:10 AM) [snapback]1223027[/snapback] when Mundungus Fletcher had disapparated from watching Harry... wouldn't the disapparation have been noticed by the ministry? Does the Order know some kind of protection that would prevent the ministry from detecting their spells? Does Voldemort have that ability, too, to prevent the ministry from guessing where he hid his horcruxes? I'm not sure Apparation counts as magic, seeing as you don't actually use your wand and there's not incantation. It's just pure willpower, and how can you track that? QUOTE(chocolateisnotforbreakfast @ May 21 2007, 04:10 AM) [snapback]1223027[/snapback] What I think is MOST interesting about the Ministry tracking magic usage, is that in both instances, they were able to identify WHAT magic is being performed in both cases, just not by whom. Um, actually, they can only tell what was done, not who did it. That's why Harry got in trouble for Dobby's cake hover charm, and why children in magical households have to be policed by their parents only... This post has been edited by LukeFM: Jun 10 2007, 03:18 PM |
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