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The Impact of the WB/JKR vs. RDR Lawsuit on the Fandom, How will YOU be affected?

MJLeakyCon View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 03:02 PM Post #1
She Who Channels Rita Skeeter Posts: 2,938 Joined: 11:40pm January 17, 2006 Location: Twiddling My Time-Turner	OK, here's a split off of the Steve thread. Remember the rules, be nice, no flaming...let's have a great discussion! Thanks! futureweasley -------------------- Sig Image by Brian Ross (DatM) and avi by Jeffhpfan

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Replies (10 - 19)

Wizard_Dave View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 03:49 PM Post #11
Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 26 Joined: 11:35pm December 3, 2005 Location: Head in Harry Potter book	If I am not mistaken limits have been imposed before, its the for profit element to fan based things, like the T-shirts where stopped from sale. Where it is free and not directly in competition with JK Rowlings intended future plans (wanting to publish her own definitive encyclopedia) I would say we are ok with the Fan web sites and conventions to discuss and deliberate on the Harry Potter World. If Jo asks to explain something I think any reasonable fan would talk with her (or her representatives) and if needed alter things to their wishes for web sites etc, if so then all will be fine and OK to proceed with. I think the bottom line is where people are trying to make a profit on the back of her work and without permission or consent that the problems will start arising. As fan-sites and fan fictions are free for the fans to use then there should be no problem.

davidenglish View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 03:51 PM Post #12
Official Singer of the Sorting Hat Song Posts: 6,605 Joined: 3:12pm July 22, 2005 Location: Lost in Hermione's beaded bag	I'm sorry, but the legal precedents have already been set. It was mentioned in the other thread about the cases involving Prince, Twin Peaks and Seinfeld. And copyright law is not exactly new. Fair Use is well established. And, what is more, if the timeline of "Cease & Desist" orders as presented by the plaintiffs is accurate, it will prove the defendents were acting in bad faith. Fans have always had trouble with copyright holders. That's because fans sometimes get swelled heads and begin to imagine that they've somehow become co-creators of the work. A fanfic author might have produced a novella about Draco's love for Blaise Zabini, but it's forever doomed to cyberspace obscurity because it can't be copyrighted and it can't be published. And, should that craving to be a real author possess the cyber-writer, well, expect the Cease & Desist order before sunset. -------------------- Come the words that bubble Up through broken laughter, Sweeter than spring-water, "Gods, I am so happy!"

DaisyRenee View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 04:06 PM Post #13
Proud owner of a half-dead horse! Posts: 739 Joined: 1:48pm July 14, 2005 Location: Reading all the books at Flourish and Blotts	QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 2 2007, 08:48 PM) QUOTE it's WB that worries me, they seem to ME, to be more in control of this suit that JK. But that's just my guess... This is more where I lean toward with my worries on the effects of the fandom. This is a suit being jointly filed by WB that gives them leeway over so much, and while JKR migh not use them, WB could use the legal benefits they get from this suit. I beleive JKR when she says she enjoys this fandom, but I don't trust that she'll always interpret it that way. Especially with WB claiming ownership over so much of her work. I'm worried our author is becmoing a puppet of something larger. I think Steve is too. The reason WB is participating in the lawsuit is that Jo had to sell them some of her rights to the series in order for them to be able to make the movies. So Jo owns the copyright where the books are concerned, so a derivitive work like this one would fall under her rights. But since the movies have begun to be made, WB has owned some of the rights in this franchise as well. The Lexicon as a website contains images and other things that fall under WB's jurisdiction. If these items are reproduced in the book version, then WB has every right to be involved with the suit. In fact, some of the rights may belong to Bloomsbury and Scholastic, since they had to purchase certain of the rights to have the books edited and printed. So I wouldn't be surprised if they were to join in at some point. But the fact that WB owns some of the rights to Harry Potter does not mean that they own Jo. I think she'll continue to have her own thoughts and act of her own free will in this. Steve's unwillingness to speak on this matter may have something to do with the contract he signed with RDR. He may have to defer to their legal team for the time being, which I think is a shame, because he seems like a reasonable person as well, and on his own he may be able to strike an agreement in a better fashion than what RDR is attempting to do. -------------------- "Heh, heh, heh; Mine is an evil laugh!" --Wash, Firefly "If only there was something in your head that could control the things you say..." --Chandler, Friends "His face looked into my face, and LIED to my FACE!" --Lane Kim

va32h View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 04:23 PM Post #14
Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer Posts: 1,045 Joined: 1:34pm January 29, 2005	Is Mugglenet a for-profit site? Do the organizers of the various conventions make any money from them? (Asking because I honestly don't know). I also wonder about Spark Notes, which have study guides for all the books. The guides appear to be primarily summarizing to me - there is some commentary but on first glance it doesn't appear to be any more commentary than on the Lexicon (although I freely admit I have made no effort to study the percentages). The Lexicon site does have Google ads, btw. Someone asked about that in the other thread. I realize that the lawsuit is about the book, not the site, but in the absence of a copy of the book to critique, the plaintiffs have said some pretty harsh things about the site, which I see as quite an about-face from JKR's previous comments about it. So to me that says - hey, she can change her mind about a site she has previously liked at any time. Personally, I think that to be absolutely safe, fansites (including this one) should remove things like...that lovely Mary Grand Pre illustration at the top of this page. Unless of course they have permission to use it. And things like the picture of Harry wearing an ipod to advertise Pottercast. Or Mugglenet's pictures of the film cast on their header. Using protected images is a surefire way to draw unwanted scrutiny. If, as we all assert, the fansites offer more than JKR's product, they shouldn't need JKR's product to embellish their pages. It's not as if there isn't plenty of fan art that could be used. Not intended as a criticism, just what I'd do if I were operating a fansite.

Books_4_eva View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 04:39 PM Post #15
Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 462 Joined: 11:20am November 27, 2005 Location: At my PC silly ;)	QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 2 2007, 08:48 PM) QUOTE it's WB that worries me, they seem to ME, to be more in control of this suit that JK. But that's just my guess... This is more where I lean toward with my worries on the effects of the fandom. This is a suit being jointly filed by WB that gives them leeway over so much, and while JKR migh not use them, WB could use the legal benefits they get from this suit. I beleive JKR when she says she enjoys this fandom, but I don't trust that she'll always interpret it that way. Especially with WB claiming ownership over so much of her work. I'm worried our author is becmoing a puppet of something larger. I think Steve is too. Your right to an extent I think. It's not Jo we should be worried about but possibly WB. I think Jo's view on the fandom are pretty much set and this can be seen from the fact the lexicon site is not going to be affected by this hole matter. The more I look at this case the more I see it as a publicity stunt, not on Jo's part (like she needs it) but for RDR. They asked or probably in reality tolled Steve to not comment and let them handle it. Most I think would have dropped it or co-operated by now but they keep on going with it when they know they have no chance to win. The only reason I can see this is because if they new they could push it enough they could get a hells a lot of press. Actually I think this is suited more over in the other thread, kind fo just going by my train of thought. -------------------- It's a sad truth of life that at one time or another all good things must come to an end. As written on a gravestone: As you are so was I. As I am so you will be.

DaisyRenee View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 04:47 PM Post #16
Proud owner of a half-dead horse! Posts: 739 Joined: 1:48pm July 14, 2005 Location: Reading all the books at Flourish and Blotts	I don't know how much we have to worry about from WB. They tried shutting down the fansites in the very beginning, but they backed down when the fans showed that they were acting in good faith. And frankly, I don't think shutting down fansites is at the tob of WB's to-do list. Their number one priority in Harry Potter is to turn a profit. Ticking off the franchise's most faithful fans would not be the best way to do that. Fansites promote the movies, and get people excited. WB's not going to shut down free publicity. They're not that stupid. -------------------- "Heh, heh, heh; Mine is an evil laugh!" --Wash, Firefly "If only there was something in your head that could control the things you say..." --Chandler, Friends "His face looked into my face, and LIED to my FACE!" --Lane Kim

va32h View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 04:54 PM Post #17
Weasleys' Wizarding Wheezes' best customer Posts: 1,045 Joined: 1:34pm January 29, 2005	What happens when the 7th movie is released and they no longer need the free publicity? Before the release of Deathly Hallows, several "companion" guides were published. Now we've got one quashed (the Mugglenet book) and two on their way to being quashed (the Lexicon book and the French book). If I believed in the grassy knoll I might think JKR no longer needs the free publicity for her books anymore so she doesn't see any reason to allow these types of books to keep up the hype. I do believe that there is nothing JKR could do that would tick off enough fans to keep any book she writes about the Potterverse from being successful. This post has been edited by va32h: Nov 2 2007, 04:55 PM

Ex Libres Cogito View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 05:05 PM Post #18
Buying a Half-Kneazle Posts: 515 Joined: 1:37pm September 7, 2007 Location: Azkaban, Practicing my Patronus	About 2hrs from the split (Steve/Lexicon thread), with 7 members, 1 being a moderator, present. About 16 posts here already. Still not bad for 2 hours. Fan Sites: Virtual -- No secret meetings, any possibility of legal trouble? The bigger sites may have more to lose than the littler guys. Plus they may be easier targets. HOWEVER, TLC/LL has earned a strong reputation for acting in good faith. My bigger concern is that any "fallout" from the Lexicon activity may make it difficult for these sites to enjoy "business as usual." It is my humble opinion that if overtures of good faith be made by fansites and in support of fans (possible "consumers" of HP products) de-escalation, and stability may benefit everyone. ELC -------------------- In troubled times, it is often better to remember simple pleasures - family, virtue, and character - rather than to succumb to the woesome distractions of desire, defeat, and disillusionment. ELC

JeffHpFan View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 05:07 PM Post #19
Selling maps of Diagon Alley to wizard tourists Posts: 7,447 Joined: 5:12pm July 5, 2006 Location: in a pool	The lawsuit could impact leaky somewhat, considering that the lexicon and TLC are partners... -------------------- Avatar by TheJordanEdwards-- the coolest guy alive!

EruditeWitch View Member Profile	Nov 2 2007, 05:13 PM Post #20
Leaky's Resident Weasley Expert Posts: 2,478 Joined: 8:52pm March 1, 2005 Location: Ravenclaw Common Room attempting to ACCIO Jason Mraz.	I don't think people realize that regardless of how rosy and nice JKR is being in regards to fan sites and content, filing suit gives moral, and ethical liscence for other artists including JKR herself to go after ALL of their copyrighted material. And winning it legally? Well that gives WB liscence where before it didn't have a moral or ethical subjective leg to stand on. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying I dont' like the possibility getting closer and closer. -------------------- Check out my newest post DH R/Hr fics!~Or my author page!~One Big Happy Wealsey Family!~My Livejournal Avvie by rupert-grint.us

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