Forum News: New Book Nook now open, discussing J D Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye"
Hot Thread: Stand In Line! The Harry Potter Theme Park/Ride!
Mod Thread: Nominate an Actor/Actress of the Month to discuss
   |
What is JKR's interpretation of the two poems at the beginning of DH? |
 Aug 3 2009, 08:20 AM
Post
#1
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall.gif){kind=avatar}  Posts: 13 Joined: 6:38am February 16, 2006  |
Maybe, someone knows how Rowling's interpretation of this poems is?
|
 |
  
 
|
|
|
Aug 3 2009, 09:48 AM
Post
#2
|
|
Director of Farcical Aquatic Ceremonies  Posts: 8,971 Joined: 2:55pm January 28, 2005 Location: Classified, until such time as the Ministry sees fit to release it.  |
The passages are from Aeschylus’ The Libation Bearers and William Penn’s More Fruits of Solitude. For anyone who doesn't have a copy of DH with them, here are the passages (at least, I hope--I don't have a book handy, either
 ) :- From Aeschylus, The Libation Bearers Oh, the torment bred in the race, the grinding scream of death and the stroke that hits the vein, the hemorrhage none can staunch, the grief, the curse no man can bear. But there is a cure in the house, and not outside it, no, not from others but from them, their bloody strife. We sing to you, dark gods beneath the earth. Now hear, you blissful powers underground – answer the call, send help, Bless the children, give them triumph now. -From William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent. In this divine glass, they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure. This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal. |
|
|
|
|
Aug 5 2009, 09:16 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,430 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade  |
QUOTE(Pleione @ Aug 3 2009, 07:48 AM)  The passages are from Aeschylus' The Libation Bearers and William Penn's More Fruits of Solitude. For anyone who doesn't have a copy of DH with them, here are the passages (at least, I hope--I don't have a book handy, either I am not really familiar with the Penn source, but I have read the Orestia (the three works: Agammenon, Libation Bearers, and Eumenides), a bit of it in the original Greek. It is a fantastic work, a struggle for justice in a world with contradictory definitions of justice and contradictory demands of duty, a struggle to go beyond personal justice and mere revenge. When I first opened DH and read the epigraph, tears welled up in my eyes. I actually thought of Harry standing in the Shrieking Shack looking at Peter Pettigrew, a man almost directy responsible for the murder of his parents, struggling with contradictory values and desires. And now that I have finished DH, I also think of Harry standing on the edge of the Forest, faced with a horrible choice, yet knowing that as bad as the choice he makes is, the alternatives are far worse. Like Orestes, Harry faces a kind of "stacked deck," a situation with no way out, no choices that aren't far worse. It is a no win situation. It is an act of enormous faith. ) :- From Aeschylus, The Libation Bearers Oh, the torment bred in the race, the grinding scream of death and the stroke that hits the vein, the hemorrhage none can staunch, the grief, the curse no man can bear. But there is a cure in the house, and not outside it, no, not from others but from them, their bloody strife. We sing to you, dark gods beneath the earth. Now hear, you blissful powers underground – answer the call, send help, Bless the children, give them triumph now. -From William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent. In this divine glass, they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure. This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal. As you can tell, I think it was a perfect selection as an epigram. --------------------  click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
|
|
|
|
Aug 6 2009, 02:10 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Claw-Clipping Kneazles at the Magical Menegerie Posts: 2,452 Joined: 9:26am July 24, 2007 Location: I'm either in the Muggle Underground Forum or at the Hogwarts Express Roundhouse |
QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Aug 5 2009, 09:16 PM) QUOTE(Pleione @ Aug 3 2009, 07:48 AM) The passages are from Aeschylus' The Libation Bearers and William Penn's More Fruits of Solitude. For anyone who doesn't have a copy of DH with them, here are the passages (at least, I hope--I don't have a book handy, either I am not really familiar with the Penn source, but I have read the Orestia (the three works: Agammenon, Libation Bearers, and Eumenides), a bit of it in the original Greek. It is a fantastic work, a struggle for justice in a world with contradictory definitions of justice and contradictory demands of duty, a struggle to go beyond personal justice and mere revenge. When I first opened DH and read the epigraph, tears welled up in my eyes. I actually thought of Harry standing in the Shrieking Shack looking at Peter Pettigrew, a man almost directy responsible for the murder of his parents, struggling with contradictory values and desires. And now that I have finished DH, I also think of Harry standing on the edge of the Forest, faced with a horrible choice, yet knowing that as bad as the choice he makes is, the alternatives are far worse. Like Orestes, Harry faces a kind of "stacked deck," a situation with no way out, no choices that aren't far worse. It is a no win situation. It is an act of enormous faith. ) :- From Aeschylus, The Libation Bearers Oh, the torment bred in the race, the grinding scream of death and the stroke that hits the vein, the hemorrhage none can staunch, the grief, the curse no man can bear. But there is a cure in the house, and not outside it, no, not from others but from them, their bloody strife. We sing to you, dark gods beneath the earth. Now hear, you blissful powers underground – answer the call, send help, Bless the children, give them triumph now. -From William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent. In this divine glass, they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure. This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal. As you can tell, I think it was a perfect selection as an epigram. The only element I disagree with, wordsaremagic, is the no-win of Harry's entry into the forest. Dumbledore and Gellert's catchphrase "The Greater Good", is synthesized by Harry far better than those two ... he synthesizes it with Love, as he was taught by Dumbledore. (As an aside, I wonder when Harry learns that grief is a manifestation of love?) Harry is afraid, but his fear is under control, thanks in part to his parents, Sirius, and Remus being near him. He takes the cup offered him. These are not the perfect poems for DH, they are right for the whole septology. -------------------- The last enemy to be destroyed is death-- First Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verse 26 The epitaph of James and Lily Potter |
|
|
|
|
Aug 6 2009, 03:37 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,430 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade |
QUOTE(JohannMdlAmerica @ Aug 6 2009, 12:10 PM) QUOTE(wordsaremagic @ Aug 5 2009, 09:16 PM) QUOTE(Pleione @ Aug 3 2009, 07:48 AM) The passages are from Aeschylus' The Libation Bearers and William Penn's More Fruits of Solitude. For anyone who doesn't have a copy of DH with them, here are the passages (at least, I hope--I don't have a book handy, either I am not really familiar with the Penn source, but I have read the Orestia (the three works: Agammenon, Libation Bearers, and Eumenides), a bit of it in the original Greek. It is a fantastic work, a struggle for justice in a world with contradictory definitions of justice and contradictory demands of duty, a struggle to go beyond personal justice and mere revenge. When I first opened DH and read the epigraph, tears welled up in my eyes. I actually thought of Harry standing in the Shrieking Shack looking at Peter Pettigrew, a man almost directy responsible for the murder of his parents, struggling with contradictory values and desires. And now that I have finished DH, I also think of Harry standing on the edge of the Forest, faced with a horrible choice, yet knowing that as bad as the choice he makes is, the alternatives are far worse. Like Orestes, Harry faces a kind of "stacked deck," a situation with no way out, no choices that aren't far worse. It is a no win situation. It is an act of enormous faith. ) :- From Aeschylus, The Libation Bearers Oh, the torment bred in the race, the grinding scream of death and the stroke that hits the vein, the hemorrhage none can staunch, the grief, the curse no man can bear. But there is a cure in the house, and not outside it, no, not from others but from them, their bloody strife. We sing to you, dark gods beneath the earth. Now hear, you blissful powers underground – answer the call, send help, Bless the children, give them triumph now. -From William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas; they live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is omnipresent. In this divine glass, they see face to face; and their converse is free, as well as pure. This is the comfort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal. As you can tell, I think it was a perfect selection as an epigram. (As an aside, I wonder when Harry learns that grief is a manifestation of love?) Harry is afraid, but his fear is under control, thanks in part to his parents, Sirius, and Remus being near him. He takes the cup offered him. These are not the perfect poems for DH, they are right for the whole septology. When did he connect Grief and Love?--I suspect it was while he stood in Dobby's grave, digging it with his own hands. Harry's fear? A whole book could be written on that. He really is a true Gryffindor, but notice that he is constantly afraid--almost terrified--throughout all seven books. Courage is not the absence of fear (that is called "stupidity"). Faith takes the cup, even if it has to do so with trembling hands. It isn't the absence of doubt, but as Harry discovered, it is a Choice. -------------------- click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
|
|
|
|
Sorting for Half-Blood Prince is open! Click here to join!
Coming Up:
Come right in to the Shrieking Shack Arcade!
Shopping at the Cauldron Shop supports this forum!
