Jem, Scout and Dill, Relationship, growing up, etc |
 Aug 8 2008, 10:34 AM
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One Half of the DDD  Posts: 8,476 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere   |
At the start of the book Jem is in school, he's an obedient child and respects his father. When Scout starts school he explains that they don't have much contact in school, no boy wants his little sister hanging around when he's with his friends. At home he sees Scout as a companion, someone with whom to share his games and play times, they act out stories together, they build a tree house, etc but he loses patience with her when she acts like a girl, he expects her to keep up with him in her play and her view on life. Halfway through the book Scout has noticed a difference in Jem, acquiring what Scout sees as "an alien set of values and ... trying to impose them on [her]" and saying its time she "started bein' a girl". Calpurnia begins to call him "Mister Jem" and explains that he's growing up and invited Scout to spend more time with her, by doing so Scout begins to realise that there was "some skill involved in being a girl". What do you think of Jem and Scout's view of each other and the way that changes?
Although he's older than Scout, Dill is smaller than her and is proud of his reading as though its something unusual at his age. To Jem and Scout reading is just something they've always done and Jem tells him that Scout's been reading "ever since she was born", so they're not impressed. He does impress them, however, with his experience of "picture shows" and tells them about seeing Dracula, gaining Jem's respect and, therefore, Scout's. Although he's smaller and, in some ways, not as forward as Jem and Scout, it is Dill who pushes them to get Boo Radley to come out of the house. Why do you think he does that and what do you think of his methods? Why are the children so fascinated by the Radley house? What impression do you get of Dill's life when he's not in Maycomb? Despite all their fantasies about Boo Radley and how scary he would be, Scout seems completely at ease with him when they're on the porch after the attack on her and Jem. Why is her opinion changed so much? What do you think of her taking his arm instead of holding his hand to take him home, why is she concerned about how they appear to anyone watching them? Discuss here any other aspect of the relationship between Jem, Scout and Dill and their growing up. This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 8 2008, 11:13 AM --------------------  November's book is The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Aug 11 2008, 12:22 PM
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Dumbledore's Personal Secretary  Posts: 4,714 Joined: 10:28am December 31, 2006 Location: At a violin concert with my boss. |
Jem and Scout's relationship is so very open and so well, normal. Brothers and sisters do like to fight among themselves, but will defend thier siblings to the death from outsiders if necessary. Jem and Scout are enough to pass the time, but with the coming of Dill, things really begin to happen. They take to each other so well, it seems as if they were meant to be together. They sort of remind me of our HP trio - with Scout playing Hermione and cautioning the boys not to get into any scrapes now and then; but, like Hermione, she goes along with them all the same.  I really like Dill - his stories are so entertaining ! they may be total apple-sauce, but they are imaginative. I especially like the one about him being locked in a cellar and the farmer poking a bushel of peas one by one through the hole.  What he tells his friends about his parents not really needing him is so sad. Contrast that with Scout's firm belief that Atticus couldn't get though one day without her and we see the difference between a child having the feeling of being wanted and one who is neglected even though supplied with the basic necessities and extras too. Something is missing and thye child knows it, but is unable to do anything about it, which is very unfortunate.
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Aug 13 2008, 01:52 PM
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Mischievous Manager  Posts: 5,375 Joined: 9:14am February 16, 2006 Location: Behind the sofa, watching Doctor Who |
I think we're set up to believe Jem and Scout are not your typical children when Scout launches into a discourse on family history right from chapter one - explaining that all the Finch men had lived on Simon Finch's land, until her father and her uncle broke tradition by studying law and medicine, respectively. These are dyed-in-the-wool Southern children, but who are not of the same mold as their Southern neighbors. In other words, they are not afraid to question the way things are in a way that their peers wouldn't have thought to do.
Couple that with a kid who's got something of a daredevil streak to make up for his small size, and you've got the ingredients to turn a town upside-down! This post has been edited by twiddlethosedials: Aug 13 2008, 01:54 PM -------------------- |
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Aug 13 2008, 05:24 PM
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant  Posts: 1,963 Joined: 8:57am March 12, 2005 Location: at Home or somewhere in between |
QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Aug 8 2008, 03:34 PM)  Despite all their fantasies about Boo Radley and how scary he would be, Scout seems completely at ease with him when they're on the porch after the attack on her and Jem. Why is her opinion changed so much? What do you think of her taking his arm instead of holding his hand to take him home, why is she concerned about how they appear to anyone watching them? Yay! I just got the book today and started it on my way home! Though I haven't read that portion yet, it seems to be that by taking Boo's arm rather than holding his hand, marks her transformation from tomboyish child into the role of a "young lady". A child is generally taken by the hand to lead them, but to her new found status as a "lady", especially one from the "Old South", where a strict social etiquette was enforced (and was still very much alive in the 1930s) - Boo was her rescuer...and she afforded him the privilege of making sure she returned to her home safely. A man offering a lady his arm is considered a very chivalrous act - he is not "taking liberties" with her, and it is evidence of her (well supposedly! lol) choice that he is acting as an honorable escort, and not compromising her in any shape or form. In this way as well, Boo is recognized as a gentleman, so by her doing this, she elevates his status to be "equal" to her own. -------------------- Avatar made with Poser 6 and Photoshop Elements
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Aug 14 2008, 03:00 PM
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One Half of the DDD Posts: 8,476 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere |
QUOTE(momwitch @ Aug 13 2008, 11:24 PM) QUOTE(Dreamteam @ Aug 8 2008, 03:34 PM) Despite all their fantasies about Boo Radley and how scary he would be, Scout seems completely at ease with him when they're on the porch after the attack on her and Jem. Why is her opinion changed so much? What do you think of her taking his arm instead of holding his hand to take him home, why is she concerned about how they appear to anyone watching them? Yay! I just got the book today and started it on my way home! Though I haven't read that portion yet, it seems to be that by taking Boo's arm rather than holding his hand, marks her transformation from tomboyish child into the role of a "young lady". A child is generally taken by the hand to lead them, but to her new found status as a "lady", especially one from the "Old South", where a strict social etiquette was enforced (and was still very much alive in the 1930s) - Boo was her rescuer...and she afforded him the privilege of making sure she returned to her home safely. A man offering a lady his arm is considered a very chivalrous act - he is not "taking liberties" with her, and it is evidence of her (well supposedly! lol) choice that he is acting as an honorable escort, and not compromising her in any shape or form. In this way as well, Boo is recognized as a gentleman, so by her doing this, she elevates his status to be "equal" to her own. It's Boo who takes Scout's hand and says "Will you take me home?" "He almost whispered it in the voice of a child afraid of the dark". I think, rather than Scout wanting to appear grown up she takes Boo's arm instead of leading him by the hand to show anyone watching that Boo is grown up, she doesn't want him to appear childish because she now understands and respects him and wants others to see him as a man rather than a frightened child. This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Aug 16 2008, 03:25 AM -------------------- November's book is The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Aug 14 2008, 05:46 PM
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant Posts: 1,963 Joined: 8:57am March 12, 2005 Location: at Home or somewhere in between |
Whoops
  !!! That shows me not to butt in before I finish the book ! lol  Do you think that an alternate interpretation might include Scout's almost bittersweet realization that she has grown up as well? I've finished through the introduction to Miss Maudie, with her penchant for growing things and the Elder Mr Radley's criticism of her spending so much time outdoors. While answering Scout's question about whether Boo is still alive or not Miss Maudie corrects her: "His name is Arthur and he's alive", then lazily follows up with a totally unrelated (and off-topic )statement: "Do you smell my mimosa? It's like angels' breath this evening." It made me wonder why the author would link these two pieces of dialogue together, and I was suddenly reminded of William Wordsworth's Splendor in the Grass, from his Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood. Just as a reminder, this is the text that came to mind:QUOTE What though the radiance which was once so bright Be now for ever taken from my sight, Though nothing can bring back the hour Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower, We will grieve not, rather find Strength in what remains behind; In the primal sympathy Which having been must ever be; In the soothing thoughts that spring Out of human suffering; In the faith that looks through death, In years that bring the philosophic mind. Once I finish the book, I'll come back to this post and update my interpretation. In the meantime, I'll bow out so as not to derail the thread further. 
This post has been edited by momwitch: Aug 14 2008, 05:53 PM -------------------- Avatar made with Poser 6 and Photoshop Elements
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Aug 15 2008, 07:49 AM
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Knockturn Alley Fingernail Vendor Posts: 778 Joined: 9:46am August 25, 2007 Location: Chicago |
JEm and Scouts relationship is not like your average relationship between a brother and a sister as previously stated it was an open relationship, the two sort of bonded as siblings and for that a lot of people admired them. Your typical Sister and brother is a love hate relationship in which they like to get each other in trouble but Jem and Scout were better than that.
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Aug 15 2008, 01:36 PM
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Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,430 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade  |
Momwitch, I really like the Wordsworth connection. That period of time before the whole trial, before the "crisis," was really a wonderful, golden moment of youth for Scout and Dill--less so, perhaps, for Jem. It is important to remember the point of view in which the story is told: a much older scout looking back on that time of transition, that coming of age, that call to adventure.
--------------------  click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
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Aug 19 2008, 07:34 PM
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#9
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant Posts: 1,963 Joined: 8:57am March 12, 2005 Location: at Home or somewhere in between |
Thank you, WaM.
I got the same feeling as well, especially with her description of lazy summer days, the flowers blooming and simple pleasures - it brought me right back to my own childhood. Time has a way of slowing down when I remember the heavy sweet smell of honeysuckle and being outside at dusk in my pajamas with my best friend, our parents sitting on the porch "stoops" with each other, sipping their mugs of tea and coffee, and then the streetlights casting shadows which signaled "time for bed". It was a truly magical time, and Wordsworth echoes it perfectly, and just a little painfully.After finishing the book, I think that Scout finally accepts the inevitable in becoming a lady. She fights it for so long, but when her aunt kindly hands her the familiar overalls to wear after the attack, I see her recognizing that she can still be herself, and be a lady at the same time. p 264 QUOTE She brought me something to put on, and had I thought about it then, I would have never let her forget it: in her distraction, Aunty brought me my overalls. "Put these on, darling," she said, handing me the garments she most despised.
This post has been edited by momwitch: Aug 19 2008, 07:37 PM -------------------- Avatar made with Poser 6 and Photoshop Elements
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Aug 19 2008, 10:00 PM
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Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,430 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade |
QUOTE(momwitch @ Aug 19 2008, 05:34 PM) Thank you, WaM. Beautifully said, momwitch! You have captured that Wordsworthian idea of great poetry being emotion recollected in tranquility--especially the tranquility brought by age and experience. The older narrator Scout, remembering her younger life, knows I got the same feeling as well, especially with her description of lazy summer days, the flowers blooming and simple pleasures - it brought me right back to my own childhood. Time has a way of slowing down when I remember the heavy sweet smell of honeysuckle and being outside at dusk in my pajamas with my best friend, our parents sitting on the porch "stoops" with each other, sipping their mugs of tea and coffee, and then the streetlights casting shadows which signaled "time for bed".[emphasis mine, WaM] It was a truly magical time, and Wordsworth echoes it perfectly, and just a little painfully.After finishing the book, I think that Scout finally accepts the inevitable in becoming a lady. She fights it for so long, but when her aunt kindly hands her the familiar overalls to wear after the attack, I see her recognizing that she can still be herself, and be a lady at the same time. p 264 QUOTE She brought me something to put on, and had I thought about it then, I would have never let her forget it: in her distraction, Aunty brought me my overalls. "Put these on, darling," she said, handing me the garments she most despised. QUOTE Though nothing can brink back the hour Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower; We will grieve not, rather find Strength in what remains behind; ... In the faith that looks through death, In years that bring the philosophic mind. -------------------- click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
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