Lexicon Steve Lawsuit, Take III, Continuing to discuss the logistics here |
 Jan 6 2008, 01:26 PM
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#21
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 299 Joined: 1:07pm July 8, 2005 Location: Potions classroom haunted by Snape  |
QUOTE(Hinoema @ Jan 6 2008, 02:03 AM)  QUOTE(davidenglish) Reading through the comments to Lessig's tour de farce, I was struck by the attitude that artists and musicians don't do it for the money, they do it for the "art". LOL. In other words, a bunch of tenured pedants with secure incomes who force students to pay huge tuitions to sit through boring lectures in order to get a piece of paper they can flog on the job market think creative individuals should beg for their supper while the pedants comment on the quality of their begging. I officially love you now. davidenglish as usual you have so eloquently & accurately described most tenured creatures I encountered. Bravo  Why don't they lecture for free & beg for their supper? They would starve! QUOTE QUOTE(DaisyRenee) I've said dozens of times that I love the Lexicon. I do. I think it's a wonderfully put together resource. But it's not the real thing. Jo wants to finish this up herself, and since she started it all, she should be the one to see it through. And as creator, the one who has all rights to do so. No amount of voluntary fannish hobbyism should ever equal a right in regards to something created by another. I too love the Lexicon as an on-line resource to JO's world. It is up to Jo to do what she wants to do with her world, as it should be with any creative person. |
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Jan 7 2008, 11:14 AM
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#22
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 153 Joined: 9:30am December 6, 2007 Location: Feet on the ground; head in the clouds. |
Thanks for the update link, roonwit. I understand the bit about the Stanford lawyers needing to file documents for permission to join. I am confused about the discovery bit. Could you lay it on us again, Mr. Davidenglish man? (When I mangle an out of context quote, it stays mangled!)
Are the parties required to participate in discovery? (I thought they were.) From reading the update, I'm not sure whether it means they couldn't even agree to a meeting date or they couldn't agree to what constitutes discoverable material, i.e. who should offer up what. It would seem to follow that if you can't meet, you can't negotiate any preliminary agreements. Someone may already have posted this: Do you think SVA will attend these hearings hoping that JKR will attend and they can get together and solve this nasty business between themselves? -------------------- I'm forever blowing bubbles, pretty bubbles in the air. On you Irons!
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Jan 7 2008, 01:19 PM
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#23
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Kibble Boy/Girl at the Magical Menagerie Posts: 299 Joined: 1:07pm July 8, 2005 Location: Potions classroom haunted by Snape |
QUOTE(wondering @ Jan 7 2008, 10:14 AM) Thanks for the update link, roonwit. I understand the bit about the Stanford lawyers needing to file documents for permission to join. I am confused about the discovery bit. Could you lay it on us again, Mr. Davidenglish man? (When I mangle an out of context quote, it stays mangled!) Are the parties required to participate in discovery? (I thought they were.) From reading the update, I'm not sure whether it means they couldn't even agree to a meeting date or they couldn't agree to what constitutes discoverable material, i.e. who should offer up what. It would seem to follow that if you can't meet, you can't negotiate any preliminary agreements. Someone may already have posted this: Do you think SVA will attend these hearings hoping that JKR will attend and they can get together and solve this nasty business between themselves? I second the thanks to roonwit and the request for an understandable at my level as to what has happened & what will/may/hope to happen from Davidenglish. I would also like any & all thoughts on the Stanford lawyers doing this for the publicity sake? IMO the Ivory Tower world would look favorably on the Stanford lawyers taking on the Goliath of WB. The Ivory Tower world may look down on Jo since she made money, even though as a teacher they should support her. I don't refer to Jo as a former teacher because I've never studied anything as hard as the world & litature Jo has written. Thanks again roonwit & Davidenglish Vicky |
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Jan 7 2008, 01:57 PM
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic  Posts: 9,192 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK  |
QUOTE(wondering @ Jan 7 2008, 04:14 PM) Are the parties required to participate in discovery? (I thought they were.) From reading the update, I'm not sure whether it means they couldn't even agree to a meeting date or they couldn't agree to what constitutes discoverable material, i.e. who should offer up what. It would seem to follow that if you can't meet, you can't negotiate any preliminary agreements. This is guesswork on my part, but I presume that the discovery conference that didn't happen was supposed to reach some sort of agreement out of court as to how the book could be adjusted so that both sides were happy with it, but it sounds like they couldn't agree a date, or enough ground rules for it to be worth holding. It might alternatively be some sort of attempt to agree the legal issues involved. (Note that the first order by the judge in the case talks about "limited expedited discovery" in relation to RDR handing over documents (including the book text) early on in the case).QUOTE(wondering @ Jan 7 2008, 04:14 PM) Someone may already have posted this: Do you think SVA will attend these hearings hoping that JKR will attend and they can get together and solve this nasty business between themselves? I doubt Jo will be at any hearings or meetings with the other side, because it is mostly happening on the wrong side of the Atlantic for her, I very much doubt she would consider attending such meetings as fun, and it doesn't really need her input anyway because her side of the argument is clear and can be argued by the lawyers (maybe she might be needed to approve a compromise should one be agreed, but that could be done by phone, fax or email).
This post has been edited by roonwit: Jan 7 2008, 02:09 PM --------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Jan 7 2008, 03:07 PM
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#25
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Official Singer of the Sorting Hat Song Posts: 6,605 Joined: 3:12pm July 22, 2005 Location: Lost in Hermione's beaded bag  |
The story about the discovery sessions that failed to materialize comes from this part of Melissa's story:
QUOTE On Nov 28th, two letters from Dale Cendali (lawyer for WB/JKR) and one from David Hammer (lawyer for RDR) indicate that an attempt for a “discovery conference” was made and failed because parties have been “unable to agree to a discovery schedule in this case, or to resolve any of the preliminary issues raised.” These letters have been summarized but not posted publicly. I'm not sure of the source of this, but I presume it came from WB/JKR's side or court documents not yet posted online.A "discovery conference" would simply be a meeting where WB/JKR would offer up in a casual forum the specifics of it's case and, as RDR had concerns about the HP Timeline, it would be an opportunity for them to discuss that as well. I'm assuming it would be an informal meeting, but I'm not a lawyer. The memorandum and supporting papers that were to have been dropped on RDR today and will now arrive next Tuesday, would outline, in a more formal way, what WB/JKR intend to argue before the judge. Then RDR answers this with its opposition and supporting papers. Then WB/JKR replies to that before it ends up in a hearing before a judge. I'd guess that a "discovery conference" would be like plea bargaining. And I think the date of the letters (November 28th) is significant. A week later RDR announced that Stanford had come on board. And RDR sounded ready to take this thing all the way to the Supreme Court. Recall that WB/JKR had to file their lawsuit just to get a look at the manuscript. They were finally given a copy by RDR on or about November 8th. So most of what was in the lawsuit was based on a worst case scenario as imagined by WB/JKR. A "discovery conference" may have been an opportunity to work out the minor concerns and perhaps strike a deal on the major ones. To be honest, judges want to see these things settled out of court or at least hear that an attempt was made to do so. Perhaps this exchange of letters was the two going through the motions of trying to resolve it. They need not have been serious. But I assume, since WB/JKR had not seen the manuscript, that they'd have to show that, having seen the document, they would try to discuss things informally before going to all the trouble of filing the principal memorandum and supporting papers. I suspect the late addition of Stanford accounts for the new time schedule. -------------------- Come the words that bubble
Up through broken laughter, Sweeter than spring-water, "Gods, I am so happy!" |
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Jan 7 2008, 04:56 PM
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#26
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic Posts: 9,192 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
There are updates at http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/new-...cv09667/315790/ though they seem to be telling the same story as Melissa's latest report.
-------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Jan 7 2008, 05:22 PM
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#27
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Official Singer of the Sorting Hat Song Posts: 6,605 Joined: 3:12pm July 22, 2005 Location: Lost in Hermione's beaded bag |
QUOTE(roonwit @ Jan 7 2008, 09:56 PM) There are updates at http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/new-...cv09667/315790/ though they seem to be telling the same story as Melissa's latest report. Thanks, roonwit. You're really on top of things. I visited that only an hour ago and it didn't have anything past November 14.I can't find reference to the summaries of the letters of November 28th, the two from Cendali and the one from Hammer. But perhaps they'll be popping up shortly as well. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I see RDR Books has updated its website. It's moved the Lexicon & lawyer stuff off its homepage and onto the Lexicon Lawsuit page. And, unless my eyes deceive me, they seem to have tidied up and revised some of the FAQ about the case. They've revised the hearing date to February 28th, but they don't seem to have revised the dates of when WB/JKR is to deliver its principal memorandum or RDR to offer its opposition reply. However, I think I noticed some editing and revising throughout, although somewhat randomly. Again, I may be imagining it, but they've revised this page again and again, so I am probably detecting some slight change. This post has been edited by davidenglish: Jan 7 2008, 05:24 PM -------------------- Come the words that bubble
Up through broken laughter, Sweeter than spring-water, "Gods, I am so happy!" |
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Jan 7 2008, 05:38 PM
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#28
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic Posts: 9,192 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(davidenglish @ Jan 7 2008, 10:22 PM) I can't find reference to the summaries of the letters of November 28th, the two from Cendali and the one from Hammer. But perhaps they'll be popping up shortly as well. I presume the letters are 13, 14 and 15 which aren't there, but Melissa did say that only a summary was public, so maybe the summary is still to appear.
-------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Jan 7 2008, 05:51 PM
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#29
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Official Singer of the Sorting Hat Song Posts: 6,605 Joined: 3:12pm July 22, 2005 Location: Lost in Hermione's beaded bag |
QUOTE(roonwit @ Jan 7 2008, 10:38 PM) I presume the letters are 13, 14 and 15 which aren't there, but Melissa did say that only a summary was public, so maybe the summary is still to appear. Well, roonwit, you really are on top of things. I overlooked the missing numbers completely. I probably need to eat dinner.
-------------------- Come the words that bubble
Up through broken laughter, Sweeter than spring-water, "Gods, I am so happy!" |
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Jan 8 2008, 12:26 AM
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#30
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Disgruntled House-Elf at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 421 Joined: 4:30pm March 12, 2006 |
I watched that lecture and it was rather enlightening. I studied communication issues when I was in school and I think I know where this person is coming from. There is a communication theorist known as Marshall McLuhan and his ideas were years ahead of their time. I've briefly studied him and here are a few things I highlighted from my text book.
"McLuhan was unique in claiming that channels of communication are the primary cause of cultural change," (Griffin, 315). Back in the 1960's this was revolutionary thought. Most theorist steered away from the impact of the growing changes in Media, but rather to the relationships between people. "Media not only extend our reach and increase our efficiency, they also act as a filter to organize and interpret our social existence," (Griffin 315). Media, to McLuhan, was an extension of the human senses. The reason I typed all this out was because it sounded to me like as though Lessig was more like a communication theorist than a lawyer. What I heard was a misapplication of McLuhan's ideas. What I also heard from that was rather frightening. Rather than use the government to get the law changed, he seems to be wanting to change through the courts. Which is really dangerous. When looking at what they stand for we have speculated to why they are siding with RDR on this because it almost seems like they would support Rowling on this issue. They are in this case to get the law changed through court president. Hope this sheds some light on the subject for people. --------------------  |
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