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Lexicon Steve, What do you think about Jo's lawsuit?
Hufflepuff31
post Nov 1 2007, 09:46 AM
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First of all I want to say - Steve I love you and think you are great!

Now that we have that established.........

Basically, Jo wants to stop the publication of Steve Vander Ark's book The Harry Potter Lexicon because she says it will be an intellictual property rights infringement of her encylopedia.

...........What do you guys think?


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davidenglish
post Nov 1 2007, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE
Unofficial Biographies of the characters?


I would actually love that.

Is someone going to sue Scribby next? What about my fanfiction?

Like I said....yes it's Jo's property, but if she was worried about that, she would hault the publication of the book, not sue for money.

Well, it's basic copyright law. Jo owns the intellectual property rights to all her creations and will do so for the next 75 years. One needs to apply to her or her agents for permission to use the material in any work where the amount of her material will exceed that of "fair usage" in discussing or criticising the work.

I love the Lexicon, but I presume its content of copyrighted material far exceeds that permitted by the doctrine of fair usage. Fan sites were threatened when Warner Bros first bought rights and it took a while before a truce was arranged. The emphasis was that these were fansites and not-for-profit.

One can't profit from another's property. Sure, Jo is rich, but she's one of the exceptions. Most writers depend on every nickle & dime their royalties generate. The Lexicon is a great fansite, but a book version would be generating profits for others and not paying royalties to Jo, Christopher Little, Bloomsbury or Warner Bros. If Steve wanted this, the proper root would have been to negotiate a license.

I think Scribbulus might easily be published under the rules of fair usage as it is largely criticism and analysis. Fan fiction would be a violation of copyright. Fanfic is allowed to flourish because it would simply too expensive to police. As long as it remains not-for-profit and on-line only, it is left alone. But I can't see any author allowing fanfic in book form. The only exception would be parody --and certainly some fanfic borders on parody.

Consider this a case of getting a free ride. Your neighbour pulls out of her driveway and sees you walking along the sidewalk and she calls out "Where are you going?" You reply "Downtown." "So am I. Hop in and I'll give you a lift." This is fine. And it's similar to the fansites and fanfic of Potterdom. However, if you knock on the door of your neighbour and say "Hey, you drive past my place of work every day. It would be great if you could drop me off and pick me up. And it wouldn't cost you anything and I'd be company on your drive." Well, it's an impertinent request. It's asking for a free ride without providing any benefit to the neighbour, who is the one incurring the actual costs of driving.

I know fans have put a lot of work into things like TLC and LL and HP Lexicon, but that work is entirely subordinate to the work done by Jo, her publisher and Warner Bros. Warner Bros tried to play the heavy with fans, at first, but learned cooperation produced better results. However, I wouldn't expect too much kindness in the future should fans try to profit from HP. There's a fine line between expressions of enthusiasm and a ripoff.


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Posts in this topic
- Hufflepuff31   Lexicon Steve   Nov 1 2007, 09:46 AM
- - ByRichard   im a bit torn here. i can see where JKR is coming ...   Nov 1 2007, 09:49 AM
- - futureweasley   I like this thread, thank you for starting it, Huf...   Nov 1 2007, 09:59 AM
- - christinemfdorrat   I'm afraid I'm in two minds as well. Jo ...   Nov 1 2007, 09:59 AM
- - tinagin   I'm shocked, confused, and saddened. It sadde...   Nov 1 2007, 10:09 AM
- - racheline   For reasons obvious in my .sig, I'll be watchi...   Nov 1 2007, 10:11 AM
- - princess eileen   I agree with futureweasley.. I was really outraged...   Nov 1 2007, 10:16 AM
- - Wizard_Dave   I too am in two minds about this and was shocked t...   Nov 1 2007, 10:20 AM
- - ByRichard   arguabley, this law suit alone is going to create ...   Nov 1 2007, 10:21 AM
|- - futureweasley   QUOTE(ByRichard @ Nov 1 2007, 11:21 AM) a...   Nov 1 2007, 10:23 AM
- - vandy   If it's like breaching the copyrights thing ,w...   Nov 1 2007, 10:23 AM
|- - Lidane   QUOTE(vandy @ Nov 1 2007, 10:23 AM) If it...   Nov 1 2007, 03:21 PM
- - Hufflepuff31   Do we know for sure that the encylopedia is for ch...   Nov 1 2007, 10:38 AM
- - ByRichard   QUOTE(futureweasley @ Nov 1 2007, 03:23 P...   Nov 1 2007, 10:39 AM
- - coach   I probably wouldn't even have known about the ...   Nov 1 2007, 10:40 AM
|- - Arianhrod   QUOTE(coach @ Nov 1 2007, 10:40 AM) I pro...   Nov 1 2007, 10:48 AM
- - hedwig2323   Deleted by hedwig because I didn't realize the...   Nov 1 2007, 10:54 AM
- - coach   How are you Ari? I don't think the Lexicon...   Nov 1 2007, 10:55 AM
- - shadow_onthesun   The lexicon is a great resource, and it has all th...   Nov 1 2007, 10:56 AM
- - EruditeWitch   I'm supporting Steve on this. At first I was t...   Nov 1 2007, 10:56 AM
- - EruditeWitch   QUOTEUnofficial Biographies of the characters? I ...   Nov 1 2007, 10:58 AM
- - ByRichard   QUOTE(shadow_onthesun @ Nov 1 2007, 03:56...   Nov 1 2007, 10:59 AM
- - Lady Narcissa   I'm totally on the fence about this as well. ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:00 AM
- - Shard   I agree with Coach it is about control, I do feel ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:02 AM
- - shadow_onthesun   this was on leakys front page- QUOTE'CNN Money...   Nov 1 2007, 11:04 AM
- - EruditeWitch   QUOTELet's also remember guys the book IS for ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:08 AM
|- - shadow_onthesun   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 04:08 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:12 AM
|- - cbm   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 12:08 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:40 AM
- - shadow_onthesun   re: fanfic- if you were to publish it in a book fo...   Nov 1 2007, 11:11 AM
- - Hufflepuff31   I agree with Shadow on the sun that the info belon...   Nov 1 2007, 11:13 AM
|- - shadow_onthesun   QUOTE(Hufflepuff31 @ Nov 1 2007, 04:13 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:22 AM
|- - coach   QUOTE(shadow_onthesun @ Nov 1 2007, 12:22...   Nov 1 2007, 11:26 AM
|- - shadow_onthesun   QUOTE(coach @ Nov 1 2007, 04:26 PM) QUOTE...   Nov 1 2007, 11:32 AM
- - coach   It's a reference book. There is no new materi...   Nov 1 2007, 11:14 AM
|- - shadow_onthesun   QUOTE(coach @ Nov 1 2007, 04:14 PM) Erudi...   Nov 1 2007, 11:16 AM
- - EruditeWitch   Many MANY things make money off of Potter that are...   Nov 1 2007, 11:16 AM
- - EruditeWitch   Coach: Wow.... I really hope she doesn't do ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:17 AM
|- - Shard   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 12:17 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:24 AM
- - EruditeWitch   The laws of intellectual property are so vague, th...   Nov 1 2007, 11:19 AM
|- - shadow_onthesun   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 04:19 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:28 AM
- - coach   EW That's exactly right. The reprecussions a...   Nov 1 2007, 11:23 AM
- - EruditeWitch   If Jo goes through with this, I am in firm beleif ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:26 AM
|- - coach   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 12:26 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:29 AM
- - Shard   Well as I stated before this kind of control DOES ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:30 AM
- - JoRowlingRocks   If I'd made something, I'd get pretty piss...   Nov 1 2007, 11:30 AM
|- - coach   QUOTE(JoRowlingRocks @ Nov 1 2007, 12:30 ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:34 AM
- - Shard   Well Melissa was reading this thread a while ago s...   Nov 1 2007, 11:31 AM
- - Knud   Aren't there plenty of other reference books f...   Nov 1 2007, 11:31 AM
|- - Hufflepuff31   QUOTE(Knud @ Nov 1 2007, 04:31 PM) Aren...   Nov 1 2007, 12:10 PM
- - EruditeWitch   Exactly Knud! I've read many for Tolkien....   Nov 1 2007, 11:33 AM
|- - Pleione   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 12:33 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 12:43 PM
|- - faerenach   QUOTE(Pleione @ Nov 1 2007, 01:43 PM) *si...   Nov 1 2007, 12:48 PM
- - christinemfdorrat   The lexicon site is amazing and I used it all the ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:34 AM
- - loopsy   Hm. I'm more of a lurker here than a poster, b...   Nov 1 2007, 11:35 AM
|- - coach   QUOTE(loopsy @ Nov 1 2007, 12:35 PM) Hm. ...   Nov 1 2007, 11:39 AM
|- - christinemfdorrat   QUOTE(coach @ Nov 1 2007, 04:39 PM) QUOTE...   Nov 1 2007, 11:47 AM
|- - coach   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Nov 1 2007, 12:38 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 11:42 AM
- - EruditeWitch   It does cut both ways, CBM...if she lets him, then...   Nov 1 2007, 11:43 AM
|- - cbm   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 12:43 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 12:50 PM
|- - Books_4_eva   QUOTE(cbm @ Nov 1 2007, 06:50 PM) QUOTE(E...   Nov 1 2007, 12:59 PM
- - Lady Stratford   I agree with eruditewitch, the implications to fan...   Nov 1 2007, 11:50 AM
- - EruditeWitch   Copyrighted material is JKR's right. I get tha...   Nov 1 2007, 11:50 AM
|- - Lady Stratford   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 12:50 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 12:00 PM
- - faerenach   The way I see it is that as a website, the Lexicon...   Nov 1 2007, 12:05 PM
- - Clueniffler   Someone mentioned this article in the comments: h...   Nov 1 2007, 12:05 PM
- - pranko   It's Jk's info, she has put more work into...   Nov 1 2007, 12:26 PM
- - EruditeWitch   legal issues are never that simple, Pranko. Look...   Nov 1 2007, 12:43 PM
- - MelissaTLC   Guys, all we can say right now is that we hope thi...   Nov 1 2007, 12:46 PM
- - EruditeWitch   But her taking actions can define what other artis...   Nov 1 2007, 12:46 PM
- - EruditeWitch   QUOTEGuys, all we can say right now is that we hop...   Nov 1 2007, 12:47 PM
- - EruditeWitch   But what about any other form of reference? IMDB?...   Nov 1 2007, 12:52 PM
|- - cbm   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 01:52 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 01:10 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 05:52 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 01:42 PM
- - chocolateisnotforbreakfast   I agree with the people who say that the work of t...   Nov 1 2007, 12:58 PM
- - davidenglish   QUOTE(coach @ Nov 1 2007, 04:42 PM) Good ...   Nov 1 2007, 01:08 PM
- - EruditeWitch   How is an excyclopedia not a textbook?   Nov 1 2007, 01:16 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 06:16 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 02:26 PM
|- - Amontillada   QUOTE(davidenglish @ Nov 1 2007, 02:26 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 03:07 PM
- - Bradley   I am more on Jo's side, I mean she did after a...   Nov 1 2007, 01:35 PM
- - loopsy   Jo has updated her site regarding Lexicon and the ...   Nov 1 2007, 02:13 PM
- - EruditeWitch   I really wish money wasn't involved. I hope t...   Nov 1 2007, 02:20 PM
- - cbm   Melissa just posted a lengthy article on this here...   Nov 1 2007, 02:30 PM
- - GadgetDon   As I posted in the comments on the news article, w...   Nov 1 2007, 02:39 PM
- - EruditeWitch   Wow...this changes some things. JKR has a right t...   Nov 1 2007, 02:44 PM
|- - JoRowlingRocks   QUOTE(EruditeWitch @ Nov 1 2007, 07:44 PM...   Nov 1 2007, 03:24 PM
- - Lady Stratford   Wow. Interesting suit. I'm starting to chang...   Nov 1 2007, 02:46 PM
- - EruditeWitch   I know, Lady Stratford. If it ends at JUST this ...   Nov 1 2007, 02:48 PM
- - Hagiographer13   *pulls on waders and dragon-hide gloves, affixes g...   Nov 1 2007, 03:09 PM
|- - MirandaV   QUOTE(Hagiographer13 @ Nov 1 2007, 04:09 ...   Nov 1 2007, 03:13 PM
- - davidenglish   QUOTE(GadgetDon @ Nov 1 2007, 07:39 PM) T...   Nov 1 2007, 03:15 PM
- - davidenglish   One could say Steve is morphing into Gilderoy Lock...   Nov 1 2007, 03:27 PM
- - JeffHpFan   I cannot, will not, believe this is happening. Jo ...   Nov 1 2007, 03:28 PM
|- - Lidane   QUOTE(JeffHpFan @ Nov 1 2007, 03:28 PM) I...   Nov 1 2007, 03:39 PM
||- - JeffHpFan   QUOTE(Lidane @ Nov 1 2007, 04:39 PM) QUOT...   Nov 1 2007, 03:41 PM
|- - davidenglish   QUOTE(JeffHpFan @ Nov 1 2007, 08:28 PM) I...   Nov 1 2007, 03:41 PM
- - The Laughing Man   Late to the party, oh well.... Is JKR within her ...   Nov 1 2007, 03:36 PM
- - tinagin   I think Jo's update on the situation was helpf...   Nov 1 2007, 03:41 PM
|- - JeffHpFan   QUOTE(tinagin @ Nov 1 2007, 04:41 PM) I t...   Nov 1 2007, 03:47 PM
- - Ex Libres Cogito   Do you realize how quickly the world of HP began -...   Nov 1 2007, 03:47 PM
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