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Lily, Snape, Voldemort, How not to underestimate anyone's abilities and actions
WalnutWandCarrie...
post Apr 3 2009, 06:23 PM
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So, I think the unanswered question we've worked out regarding Rosmerta is whether or not she was free of the Impirius Curse at the moment of the funeral, so that she could have attended it in the first place (whether or not Harry noticed her or why not if she was there would be a second question).

As for Snape:

I think he'd be COMPLETELY different as a partner, than during the rest of his life's activities: He is someone who truly and completely lives for love and only for love - every action he does is for Lily, that's the only meaning any action could possibly have for him if it has any meaning at all. He was like that towards Lily both when she was alive and then when she was dead.

When it comes to love, he's not the Snape we know from classes and so on. He's completely romantic and tender towards the one he loves, as we can see it in his many Lily-related memories (even when they quarrel, you can feel this deep emotion he holds for her and this huge vulnerability he's got as the gifted and emotionally profound person he is, and this sadness because of love). (And it's also out of love that he becomes bitter and a bullying man, because love has such a strong impact on him. His every attitude comes from love. That's what makes him so different from other men and so special - cos normally you don't base all your actions and attitudes of your every day life on love, it doesn't normally determine every situation of your daily life. Normally you're able to act independently from love in your every day life, you're able to act normally, if you're a responsible adult. Snape, however, is downright capable of such insanity. He's completely gorgeous. (even if his behaviour is downright childish when he makes innocent people like Harry pay for his bitterness). But this childish, unconditioned love is what makes us love him so much I think, however unfair he was.

James, on the other hand, oh no, honestly, James, he's just so obsessed with himself, I don't think you could EVER get from him what Snape is capable of and willing to give someone he loves - that is to say: Snape just completely gives himself, he completely hands himself over to the one he loves (he even hands himself over to Lily via DD), his love is absolute.

James is just too busy with himself and the image he wants to create of himself, to be able to conentrate that intensively on a human being other than himself. He's compeltely loathable, what a nutter. He never had Snape's both intellectual and emotional profoundness, his capacity of very deep feelings - James is just so superficial, in my opinion.


This post has been edited by WalnutWandCarrier: Apr 3 2009, 06:24 PM
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maenad
post Apr 5 2009, 01:41 PM
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No. These would be crimes that Voldemort was suspected of being behind, probably without much proof because Voldemort was always good at hiding his traces, and it would be in his interests to be able to disassociate himself from his worst crimes so that he wouldn't alienate too much of the wizarding world. Thus there would be plenty of grounds for people to choose to disbelieve such allegations.


Voldemort was good at hiding his traces when he wanted to, but I don't think this was his tactic during the first war. The Death Eaters left the Dark Mark as their sign, didn't they?

"Ron, You-Know-Who and his followers sent the Dark Mark into the air whenever they killed," said Mr Weasley. "The terror it inspired... you have no idea, you're too young. Just picture coming home, and finding the Dark Mark hovering over your house, and knowing what you're about to find inside..." Mr Weasley winced. "Everyone's worst fear... the very worst..."

Leaving a great big skull with a serpent hanging out of its mouth behind whenever the Death Eaters killed doesn't sound like distancing themselves from their worst crimes to me. smile.gif


This post has been edited by maenad: Apr 5 2009, 01:49 PM
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the_boy_who_live...
post Apr 6 2009, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 5 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Leaving a great big skull with a serpent hanging out of its mouth behind whenever the Death Eaters killed doesn't sound like distancing themselves from their worst crimes to me. smile.gif
Except that the DEs did not show their faces, right? They hid behind masks and there was no way to tell (without their wand) who cast the Dark Mark. So there was still hiding.


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roonwit
post Apr 6 2009, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE(the_boy_who_lived @ Apr 6 2009, 07:10 PM) *
QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 5 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Leaving a great big skull with a serpent hanging out of its mouth behind whenever the Death Eaters killed doesn't sound like distancing themselves from their worst crimes to me. smile.gif
Except that the DEs did not show their faces, right? They hid behind masks and there was no way to tell (without their wand) who cast the Dark Mark. So there was still hiding.
Yes, that illustrates my point. The wizarding world would know that some group of people were doing these crimes, but not with any proof who was actually behind them. As long as the Prophet is only able to report suspicions and rumours there would be plenty of scope for young potential death eaters like Regulus to believe that Voldemort was being misrepresented and unjustly accused in the press. The dark mark identified the act with a particular group, but doesn't identify Voldemort with that group, and Voldemort could have been like a typical film villain, with a moderately presentable public face while at the same time running a criminal organization behind the scenes, and it was only after he was defeated that his links to all these crimes was actually proved.


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Wendall
post Apr 6 2009, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 6 2009, 08:34 PM) *
Yes, that illustrates my point. The wizarding world would know that some group of people were doing these crimes, but not with any proof who was actually behind them. As long as the Prophet is only able to report suspicions and rumours there would be plenty of scope for young potential death eaters like Regulus to believe that Voldemort was being misrepresented and unjustly accused in the press. The dark mark identified the act with a particular group, but doesn't identify Voldemort with that group, and Voldemort could have been like a typical film villain, with a moderately presentable public face while at the same time running a criminal organization behind the scenes, and it was only after he was defeated that his links to all these crimes was actually proved.


The wizarding world knew what the dark mark was. They knew this before Voldemort's fall. It's not like they only figured it out when Voldemort was defeated.
As Maenad's post points out, the dark mark inspired terror, it was everyone's worst fear. Therefore, during the first war, people knew what the dark mark was and what it meant.
The prophet would have reported more than suspicions. If a person/family was murdered, and there was a dark mark above the scene of the crime, then they would know and report that it was a death eater crime. They may not know the individual responsible for the crime, due to the masks worn by the death eaters, but the dark mark immediately proved the crime was down to the death eaters and Voldemort.

So when you take this, along with Sirius' statement that "Every week, news comes of more deaths, more disappearances, more torturing", it seems quite obvious that people were fully aware of Voldemort's reign of terror and what it involved.
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Posts in this topic
- WalnutWandCarrier   Lily, Snape, Voldemort   Apr 3 2009, 06:23 PM
- - Wendall   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 4 2009, 12...   Apr 4 2009, 05:38 AM
|- - Mrs_Linnea_Snape   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 4 2009, 06:38 AM) QUO...   Apr 4 2009, 11:50 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ Apr 4 2009, 05:5...   Apr 4 2009, 12:08 PM
- - The Sorting Hat   I agree. I never loved Snape afterwards, just beca...   Apr 4 2009, 08:19 AM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(The Sorting Hat @ Apr 4 2009, 01:19...   Apr 4 2009, 10:24 AM
- - WalnutWandCarrier   @Wendall: Of course, yours is the healthy, perfect...   Apr 4 2009, 02:07 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 4 2009, 08...   Apr 4 2009, 03:15 PM
- - WalnutWandCarrier   No, we definitely DON'T have any REAL, primary...   Apr 4 2009, 04:24 PM
- - The-T-Dane   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 4 2009, 09...   Apr 4 2009, 05:50 PM
- - WalnutWandCarrier   Well, some posters are actually (implicitly) sayin...   Apr 5 2009, 07:34 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 5 2009, 01...   Apr 5 2009, 09:20 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(the_boy_who_lived @ Apr 6 2009, 07...   Apr 6 2009, 02:22 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 6 2009, 09:23 PM) So ...   Apr 8 2009, 04:13 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 8 2009, 10:13 PM) ...   Apr 8 2009, 04:37 PM
- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTESome people claimed that when Snape made the ...   Apr 9 2009, 05:43 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 9 2009, 11:43 PM) ...   Apr 10 2009, 04:12 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 10:12 AM) Vo...   Apr 10 2009, 10:30 AM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 10 2009, 03:30 PM) He...   Apr 10 2009, 12:14 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 10 2009, 04:30 PM) QU...   Apr 10 2009, 12:49 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 05:49 PM) Ah...   Apr 10 2009, 03:52 PM
||- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 10 2009, 09:52 PM)...   Apr 10 2009, 05:15 PM
||- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 10:15 PM) Ah...   Apr 10 2009, 06:30 PM
||- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 11 2009, 12:30 AM)...   Apr 11 2009, 08:08 AM
||- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 11 2009, 01:08 PM) Sn...   Apr 11 2009, 11:08 AM
||- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 11 2009, 05:08 PM)...   Apr 11 2009, 03:18 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 06:49 PM) So...   Apr 13 2009, 03:11 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 13 2009, 09:11 PM) Bu...   Apr 13 2009, 06:36 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 14 2009, 12:36 AM) QU...   Apr 15 2009, 04:20 PM
- - Name Unknown   Has anyone considered that they knew full well wha...   Apr 10 2009, 05:56 PM
- - maenad   QUOTEIn my understanding, V. in essence is a very ...   Apr 11 2009, 12:20 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 11 2009, 05:20 PM) Wou...   Apr 11 2009, 01:19 PM
- - horas1   QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 11 2009, 05:20 PM) Wouldn't...   Apr 11 2009, 02:17 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(horas1 @ Apr 11 2009, 07:17 PM) As ...   Apr 11 2009, 08:54 PM
- - horas1   QUOTEIf they had been so happy with their master, ...   Apr 12 2009, 07:39 AM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(horas1 @ Apr 12 2009, 12:39 PM) Yes...   Apr 12 2009, 10:42 AM
- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTEYou have no evidence that Voldemort only star...   Apr 13 2009, 08:57 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 14 2009, 02:57 AM)...   Apr 14 2009, 04:33 AM
|- - Mrs_Linnea_Snape   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 14 2009, 05:33 AM) Al...   Apr 14 2009, 05:23 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ Apr 14 2009, 11...   Apr 14 2009, 08:04 AM
- - maenad   QUOTEWendall, it's not that you and maenad hav...   Apr 14 2009, 06:54 AM
- - horas1   The book says that Regulus believed as most all th...   Apr 14 2009, 11:44 AM
- - Eva Hedwig   Sirius maybe didn't knew exactly what Regulus ...   Apr 14 2009, 11:50 AM
- - maenad   QUOTEI think that the most reliable source about R...   Apr 14 2009, 12:14 PM
- - Iheartprofessorsnape   I've created a thread with all the wonderful d...   Apr 14 2009, 04:17 PM
- - wickedboy   The way I look at this issue is that there is no c...   Apr 15 2009, 04:26 AM
- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTEIn either case, it was the wrong choice in my...   Apr 15 2009, 11:52 AM
- - acciosirius   This is a very interesting topic! If I could m...   May 23 2009, 06:40 PM


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