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Lily, Snape, Voldemort, How not to underestimate anyone's abilities and actions
WalnutWandCarrie...
post Apr 3 2009, 06:23 PM
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So, I think the unanswered question we've worked out regarding Rosmerta is whether or not she was free of the Impirius Curse at the moment of the funeral, so that she could have attended it in the first place (whether or not Harry noticed her or why not if she was there would be a second question).

As for Snape:

I think he'd be COMPLETELY different as a partner, than during the rest of his life's activities: He is someone who truly and completely lives for love and only for love - every action he does is for Lily, that's the only meaning any action could possibly have for him if it has any meaning at all. He was like that towards Lily both when she was alive and then when she was dead.

When it comes to love, he's not the Snape we know from classes and so on. He's completely romantic and tender towards the one he loves, as we can see it in his many Lily-related memories (even when they quarrel, you can feel this deep emotion he holds for her and this huge vulnerability he's got as the gifted and emotionally profound person he is, and this sadness because of love). (And it's also out of love that he becomes bitter and a bullying man, because love has such a strong impact on him. His every attitude comes from love. That's what makes him so different from other men and so special - cos normally you don't base all your actions and attitudes of your every day life on love, it doesn't normally determine every situation of your daily life. Normally you're able to act independently from love in your every day life, you're able to act normally, if you're a responsible adult. Snape, however, is downright capable of such insanity. He's completely gorgeous. (even if his behaviour is downright childish when he makes innocent people like Harry pay for his bitterness). But this childish, unconditioned love is what makes us love him so much I think, however unfair he was.

James, on the other hand, oh no, honestly, James, he's just so obsessed with himself, I don't think you could EVER get from him what Snape is capable of and willing to give someone he loves - that is to say: Snape just completely gives himself, he completely hands himself over to the one he loves (he even hands himself over to Lily via DD), his love is absolute.

James is just too busy with himself and the image he wants to create of himself, to be able to conentrate that intensively on a human being other than himself. He's compeltely loathable, what a nutter. He never had Snape's both intellectual and emotional profoundness, his capacity of very deep feelings - James is just so superficial, in my opinion.


This post has been edited by WalnutWandCarrier: Apr 3 2009, 06:24 PM
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maenad
post Apr 11 2009, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE
In my understanding, V. in essence is a very fragil, fearful, insecure person. He doesn't act in the open, he prefers the secrecy. In the first war, DD was alive and V. feared him, so I guess that he went very slowly to convince, manipulate,... before comming into the open. This would take some time.


Yes, it did. Those eleven years of warfare were the culmination of a very long process. After leaving Hogwarts-- I hate dates, but sometime in the 1940s, Voldemort worked briefly at Borgin and Burkes, until he had succeeded in robbing Hepzibah Smith. He then disappeared for ten years before returning to Hogwarts to make his request of Dumbledore. At that point he was completely underground, and no records can be found of his activity, except that he "sank so deeply into the Dark Arts, consorted with the very worst of our kind, underwent so many dangerous, magical transformations, that when he resurfaced as Lord Voldemort, he was barely recognisable." He went away and immersed himself in evil magic to increase his power. Though, at school, Voldemort had friends who "were the forerunners of the Death Eaters, and indeed some of them became the first Death Eaters after leaving Hogwarts," Voldemort's meeting with Dumbledore is the first time we hear of the Death Eaters as Death Eaters:

"And what will become of those whom you command? What will happen to those who call themselves-- or so rumour has it-- the Death Eaters?"

Voldemort was still lying low at this point, and rumours of his activities hadn't yet become common knowledge. He was still gathering strength and followers. But an eleven year war that ended in 1981 wouldn't be due to begin until 1970. Voldemort wasn't a man in a hurry-- far from it. He was a man who lived a long time, and who had plenty of time to plan and gather his strength. He did all the things you say he did-- worked in secrecy, bided his time. But by the time the likes of Regulus and Snape were growing up, Voldemort had the power and the followers he had spent all that time building up, and the war was in full swing.

Thus the use of obvious, attention gathering stunts: of inferi, of which he had "an army," of giants, whom he used "for the grand effect" and of the Dark Mark, to claim responsibility for all that death and destruction.

"You can't blame them," said Dumbledore gently. "We've had precious little to celebrate for eleven years."

That sounds to me like... well, it sounds like they had precious little to celebrate for eleven years. Not one year, or two. Eleven.

QUOTE
Well they wouldn't speak about the really horrible things, but only of the "advantages" of beeing a D.E. Most wanted to do brave things, the "correct" things (get rid of muggleborns) but it was not claerly told "how". And Lily had more information about this, because she was interested in this "how" because she was part of the haunted group.


Wouldn't they?

"I don't need help from filthy little Mudbloods like her!"

"It was Dark magic, and if you think that's funny--"

"You and your precious little Death Eater friends-- you see, you don't even deny it! You don't even deny that's what you're all aiming to be! You can't wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?"

Isn't the point of all this that Snape's friends were aping the activities of the Death Eaters? They didn't go around talking about how they wanted to become Death Eaters-- that would have been suicidal, and Snape still might have denied it, if he'd had the presence of mind to lie-- but Lily could guess it from their behaviour. They used Dark Magic and racist slurs. They could not, of course, get away with as much as Voldemort could, not when they didn't have masks to conceal themselves and a teacher could come upon them at any second, but it sounds to me as though they had a pretty good idea of what being a Death Eater was all about. And by this point, Voldemort had definitely made himself feared enough that his name was avoided: it is 'You-Know-Who' whom Lily accuses Snape of idolising, not 'Voldemort.'


This post has been edited by maenad: Apr 11 2009, 12:51 PM
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- WalnutWandCarrier   Lily, Snape, Voldemort   Apr 3 2009, 06:23 PM
- - Wendall   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 4 2009, 12...   Apr 4 2009, 05:38 AM
|- - Mrs_Linnea_Snape   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 4 2009, 06:38 AM) QUO...   Apr 4 2009, 11:50 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ Apr 4 2009, 05:5...   Apr 4 2009, 12:08 PM
- - The Sorting Hat   I agree. I never loved Snape afterwards, just beca...   Apr 4 2009, 08:19 AM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(The Sorting Hat @ Apr 4 2009, 01:19...   Apr 4 2009, 10:24 AM
- - WalnutWandCarrier   @Wendall: Of course, yours is the healthy, perfect...   Apr 4 2009, 02:07 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 4 2009, 08...   Apr 4 2009, 03:15 PM
- - WalnutWandCarrier   No, we definitely DON'T have any REAL, primary...   Apr 4 2009, 04:24 PM
- - The-T-Dane   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 4 2009, 09...   Apr 4 2009, 05:50 PM
- - WalnutWandCarrier   Well, some posters are actually (implicitly) sayin...   Apr 5 2009, 07:34 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(WalnutWandCarrier @ Apr 5 2009, 01...   Apr 5 2009, 09:20 AM
- - maenad   QUOTENo. These would be crimes that Voldemort was ...   Apr 5 2009, 01:41 PM
|- - the_boy_who_lived   QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 5 2009, 01:41 PM) Leav...   Apr 6 2009, 01:10 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(the_boy_who_lived @ Apr 6 2009, 07...   Apr 6 2009, 02:22 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(the_boy_who_lived @ Apr 6 2009, 07...   Apr 6 2009, 02:34 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 6 2009, 08:34 PM) Yes...   Apr 6 2009, 04:23 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 6 2009, 09:23 PM) So ...   Apr 8 2009, 04:13 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 8 2009, 10:13 PM) ...   Apr 8 2009, 04:37 PM
- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTESome people claimed that when Snape made the ...   Apr 9 2009, 05:43 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 9 2009, 11:43 PM) ...   Apr 10 2009, 04:12 AM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 10:12 AM) Vo...   Apr 10 2009, 10:30 AM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 10 2009, 03:30 PM) He...   Apr 10 2009, 12:14 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 10 2009, 04:30 PM) QU...   Apr 10 2009, 12:49 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 05:49 PM) Ah...   Apr 10 2009, 03:52 PM
||- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 10 2009, 09:52 PM)...   Apr 10 2009, 05:15 PM
||- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 10:15 PM) Ah...   Apr 10 2009, 06:30 PM
||- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 11 2009, 12:30 AM)...   Apr 11 2009, 08:08 AM
||- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 11 2009, 01:08 PM) Sn...   Apr 11 2009, 11:08 AM
||- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 11 2009, 05:08 PM)...   Apr 11 2009, 03:18 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 10 2009, 06:49 PM) So...   Apr 13 2009, 03:11 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(roonwit @ Apr 13 2009, 09:11 PM) Bu...   Apr 13 2009, 06:36 PM
|- - roonwit   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 14 2009, 12:36 AM) QU...   Apr 15 2009, 04:20 PM
- - Name Unknown   Has anyone considered that they knew full well wha...   Apr 10 2009, 05:56 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 11 2009, 05:20 PM) Wou...   Apr 11 2009, 01:19 PM
- - horas1   QUOTE(maenad @ Apr 11 2009, 05:20 PM) Wouldn't...   Apr 11 2009, 02:17 PM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(horas1 @ Apr 11 2009, 07:17 PM) As ...   Apr 11 2009, 08:54 PM
- - horas1   QUOTEIf they had been so happy with their master, ...   Apr 12 2009, 07:39 AM
|- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTE(horas1 @ Apr 12 2009, 12:39 PM) Yes...   Apr 12 2009, 10:42 AM
- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTEYou have no evidence that Voldemort only star...   Apr 13 2009, 08:57 PM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Eva Hedwig @ Apr 14 2009, 02:57 AM)...   Apr 14 2009, 04:33 AM
|- - Mrs_Linnea_Snape   QUOTE(Wendall @ Apr 14 2009, 05:33 AM) Al...   Apr 14 2009, 05:23 AM
|- - Wendall   QUOTE(Mrs_Linnea_Snape @ Apr 14 2009, 11...   Apr 14 2009, 08:04 AM
- - maenad   QUOTEWendall, it's not that you and maenad hav...   Apr 14 2009, 06:54 AM
- - horas1   The book says that Regulus believed as most all th...   Apr 14 2009, 11:44 AM
- - Eva Hedwig   Sirius maybe didn't knew exactly what Regulus ...   Apr 14 2009, 11:50 AM
- - maenad   QUOTEI think that the most reliable source about R...   Apr 14 2009, 12:14 PM
- - Iheartprofessorsnape   I've created a thread with all the wonderful d...   Apr 14 2009, 04:17 PM
- - wickedboy   The way I look at this issue is that there is no c...   Apr 15 2009, 04:26 AM
- - Eva Hedwig   QUOTEIn either case, it was the wrong choice in my...   Apr 15 2009, 11:52 AM
- - acciosirius   This is a very interesting topic! If I could m...   May 23 2009, 06:40 PM


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