Living beyond death, Harry's feelings |
 Nov 7 2008, 07:50 PM
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#1
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary  Posts: 468 Joined: 9:38pm March 27, 2008 Location: Herbology greenhouse♥   |
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. Harry read the words slowly, as though he would have only one chance to take in their meaning, and he read the last of them aloud. "'The last enemy that shall be destoyed is death'..." A horrible thought came to him, and with it a kind of panic. "Isn't that a Death Eater idea? Why is that there?" "It doesn't mean defeating death in the way Death Eaters mean it, Harry," said Hermione, her voice gentle. "It means... you know, living beyond death. Living after death." But they were not living, thought Harry: They were gone. The empty words could disguise that fact that his parents' moldering remains lay beneath the snow and stone, indifferent, unknowing. And tears came before he could stop them, boiling hot then instantly freezing on his face, and what was the point in wiping them off or pretending? He let them fall, his lips pressed hard together, looking down at the thick snow hiding from his eyes the place where the last of Lily and James lay, bones now, surely, or dust, not knowing or caring that their living son stood so near, his heart still beating, alive because of their sacrifice and close to wishing, at this moment, that he was sleeping under the snow with them. pgs. 328-329 Deathly Hallows, U.S. edition -What did you think of this? Did it have any meaning? -Was this quote powerful to you at all? -What do you think Hermione was trying to say? -Is there any other quotes in the book that related to this? Any quotes that were very powerful? -Anything else you would like to say? P.S.: Sorry if I put this in the wrong forum, you may move it if you wish. If there is any other topics, you can delete this one, but can you give me 24 hours notice so I can copy what I wrote? (It took me a long time to write this) This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Nov 7 2008, 08:07 PM --------------------   |
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Nov 7 2008, 07:59 PM
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#2
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Monster Book Stacker Posts: 358 Joined: 9:13am August 11, 2007 |
-What did you think of this? Did it have any meaning?
Honestly I can't remember the death eaters ever saying "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death," although it's LV's goal, I don't remember it ever being a Death Eater creedo, if there was such a thing. -Was this quote powerful to you at all? Yeah, the second time I read the book-- because it's true, the last enemy Harry had to face was death. -What do you think Hermione was trying to say? Although I think the quotes relation to the story has to deal with Harry "beating death," I think hermoine thought it meant something like: Life continues after death, James & Lily died, but Harry is very much alive. There is life after death! -Is there any other quotes in the book that related to this? Any quotes that were very powerful? "I am about to die." This post has been edited by Dreamteam: Nov 7 2008, 08:20 PM
Reason for edit: to make a small change to one of the questions quoted from the original post.
-------------------- Dumbledore has a posse.
"Listening to the news! Again?" "Well, it changes every day, you see." |
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Nov 7 2008, 09:07 PM
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#3
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 112 Joined: 9:48pm February 3, 2007 Location: Norway |
QUOTE(BeAchL0veEr05 @ Nov 8 2008, 01:50 AM)  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. -What did you think of this? Did it have any meaning? Well, I am a Christian, so I recognized the quotation from the New Testament, in the apostel Pauls first letter to the Chorintians. This qoute is part of a passage that focuses on the main essential of the Christian faith: Resurection. This is the essential point we believe in, says Paul, because if Christ didn't die and resurrect, then this faith is worthless - it has no fundation. Paul also states that the Christians, have part in this resurrestion, and that in believing, the Christians have already conquered death (and therefore have no reason to fear it). This last poit is interesting in relation to Harry, and his journy. I think he essentially conquers death when he accepts it, and meets it without seeking ways to escape it. I kind of think that he conquers death, by letting go of his fear (his natural instinct of survival), and that is exactly what Paul urges the Chorinthians to do: Not to fear death. (Because, on the other side is resurection!) This is getting very theological (almost fitting more into obscure books) - sorry. I'll try to be plain. I belive in a resurection after death. A real, flesh and blood life. Death is destroyed, but we don't get to take part in that victory untill we die. (I really hope that doesn't sound too far out...!) Try the blogs: www.thehogshead.org and www.hogwartsprofessor.com for more on the religious and litterate topics in Harry Potter, or podcasts like The Secrets of Harry Potter and The Hogs Head Pubcast. QUOTE -Was this quote powerful to you at all? Yes, it was very powerfull to me! I was crying my eyes out, litteraly. Death is such a sore subject to us humans, beause (sooner or later) it will rob us of those we love, and our lives will end in it. So a passage like the one you quoted ewokes all our own experiences with death, loss and all our feeling about our own mortality. Death is the most ultimatly human experience, and thus it sneaks itself into most stories that we tell. It is the great big mistery, and I think we tend to move between our natural fear of it - and the ideal portrayed by Dumbledore: Understanding death as our next great adventure. QUOTE -What do you think Hermione was trying to say? Do you agree with her? Why or why not? I'm remembering the passage about the veil in Order of the Phoenix, where Hermione was so sceptical to the veil, and could not hear the voices. I think she might have considered the whole thing a bit of a loony-Luna-thing. But she has changed so much since then! Here she is, encouraging Harry to believe that people go on after death. I don't know quite what to make of Hermiones comments about life after death. It is a general perseption in Weastern culture that there is some kind of life after death, but most people leave it at that. Because we don't know any more. We are left in the hands of beliefs and speculations. But we need that hope. And maybe that is all Hermione is giving Harry. Her tiny little hope. Or maybe it is a confession of a deeper faith. I don't know, and I don't care - it is the hope that matters. QUOTE -Is there any other quotes in the book that related to this? Any quotes that were very powerful? "Here lies Dobby, a free elf." "I am about to die." "It's beats were numbered." ...Most of chapters 34 (The Forest Again) and 35 (Kings Cross), really...! As well as the Tale of the Three Brothers, and the symbol of the Deathly Hallows. I have to say that I think the way Rowling develops the theme of death is incredibly moving. I think she has said that these books are the product ofher own struggle to believe. We all have to deal with death, in one way or the other. And we are all in need of some hope, some deeper meaning to link it with. Rowling does not provide that with reasoning (like Paul...) but with imagination. C. S. Lewis said:"Reason is the natural organ of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning." These books are about the meaning of, in and around death. Not about knowing the truth. We won't know the truth till we experience it, in due course. This was a very long post. Sorry. Hope someone will find it interesting... 
-------------------- "These belong in Hufflepuff, Where they are just and loyal.
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true And unafraid of toil." |
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Nov 7 2008, 10:44 PM
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#4
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Doctor Filibuster's Junior Assistant Posts: 1,966 Joined: 5:11pm May 4, 2007 Location: Texas |
Yes, there is a very telling other quote on this subject. From Dumbledore: To the well ordered mind, death is but the next great adventure. The books are full of the belief in life after death. All the talk about the soul and "moving on" are other examples.
Jo has said for years that her Christian beliefs affected the books. No, they are not Christian books. They are not intended to proselytize. And non-Christians can totally enjoy the books without even thinking about the Christian overtures. But they are clearly there, especially life after death. -------------------- "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-Albus Dumbledore |
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Nov 8 2008, 01:53 PM
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#5
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 468 Joined: 9:38pm March 27, 2008 Location: Herbology greenhouse♥ |
Maja_Leonora- Yes, I did find your post very interesting! Thank you!
I think that Hermione was trying to say that we should live beyond death, in the sense that we may go to heaven (or something like it). Or maybe that if we live a good life, we will be remembered, and our souls will live on. This part of DH made me cry becasue it expressed so many feelings in one paragraph. Harry was so strong throughout the books (and he still is), but he showed some really strong, sad emotions right here. I loved it! He was saying that he missed his parents, (and he almost didn't care that Hermione thought they could live after death) and nothing could disguise the fact that they were dead. I felt bad at this part: They were gone. The empty words could disguise that fact that his parents' moldering remains lay beneath the snow and stone, indifferent, unknowing. Those sentances expressed a lot of feeling! I also thought it was really sad how Harry wanted to sleep under the snow with them. 
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Nov 9 2008, 07:12 AM
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Triwizard Champ of the Lily and Stag Inn  Posts: 2,033 Joined: 8:34am April 9, 2008 Location: Swimming in lunacy   |
QUOTE(BeAchL0veEr05 @ Nov 8 2008, 01:53 PM) I also thought it was really sad how Harry wanted to sleep under the snow with them. Very sad alright but understandable. Faith leads us to believe that we will see our lost loved ones again, in a place where there is no pain, no hurt, no danger. After all Harry has been through its understandable that he may want that peace that his parents have. I think thats the thing with death, we may desire it at times when our struggles seem to much to handle but we also have a strong will to live and survive. With Harry I think this is seen in the Kings Cross chapter when Harry is giving the choice of going on or going back. -------------------- |
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Nov 9 2008, 01:30 PM
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#7
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 468 Joined: 9:38pm March 27, 2008 Location: Herbology greenhouse♥ |
QUOTE(Sirius_Craic @ Nov 9 2008, 06:12 AM) QUOTE(BeAchL0veEr05 @ Nov 8 2008, 01:53 PM) I also thought it was really sad how Harry wanted to sleep under the snow with them. Very sad alright but understandable. Faith leads us to believe that we will see our lost loved ones again, in a place where there is no pain, no hurt, no danger. After all Harry has been through its understandable that he may want that peace that his parents have. I think thats the thing with death, we may desire it at times when our struggles seem to much to handle but we also have a strong will to live and survive. With Harry I think this is seen in the Kings Cross chapter when Harry is giving the choice of going on or going back. Yes, that is a very good observation, Sirius_Craic! Thanks! I know that it is understandable. Before Harry thinks all this, he also wonders what it would be like to live at his parents house- he could have had friends there, he could have had brothers or sisters, it would have been his mom that made his seventeenth bithday cake... I love this paragraph because it shows emotions, and it is so true... But I'm glad Harry chose to live on! -------------------- |
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Nov 10 2008, 04:41 AM
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Perusing the Magical Menagerie Posts: 95 Joined: 8:28am August 23, 2008 Location: in hagrids hut attending a "support harry potter party " |
when i first read that line the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death i admit my reaction was the same as harrys that it was a death eater idea well to be more specific a voldemort idea, he wanted to "master" death
but then after hermione said it was livng beyond death I though more into the inscription on thier tombstone and that it relates directly to the main message about Death in the series: that the true "Master" of Death is the one who is unafraid to meet it, the theme was intertwined with other plot elements as well, like The Tale of the Three Brothers, Dumbledore and Harry's relationship, and the final conflict between Harry and Voldemort, but it is undoubtedly an accurate testament to the way in which James and Lily died too, both of them faced Voldemort withouth their wands and out of love for their son, choose to succumb to death because what was of utmost importance to both of them was not power, wealth, or desire, but to embrace death in a moment of courage so that their son could have life. in a sense they "destroyed" death because they died..if any of that makes sense to anyone beside me
--------------------  To Harry Potter, the boy who lived and to JK Rowling, the woman who told us his amazing story |
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Nov 10 2008, 05:50 AM
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 494 Joined: 10:29pm August 9, 2008 Location: Sending Ginny a Hogwarts Toilet Seat |
I think what Hermione was trying to say that was even after Death, Harry's parents were still alive and still happy - they had finally beaten the last thing they could.
And I would also like to add ( going off what Maja_Leonora is saying ) I too think that JK Rowling is making a bold statement about Death. Shes saying that all you have to conquer at the end is death, that its the only thing left. I think this is a better way to have things, since she did kill off many characters. Its nice to think they they will be still happy and will have conquerd the last thing they need to conquer. -------------------- ]
  <---- ♥ Yup. I'm a Shipper. |
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Nov 10 2008, 07:39 PM
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#10
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Rat Spleen Restocker at the Apothecary Posts: 468 Joined: 9:38pm March 27, 2008 Location: Herbology greenhouse♥ |
QUOTE(lily-luna-potter @ Nov 10 2008, 03:41 AM) when i first read that line the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death i admit my reaction was the same as harrys that it was a death eater idea well to be more specific a voldemort idea, he wanted to "master" death but then after hermione said it was livng beyond death I though more into the inscription on thier tombstone and that it relates directly to the main message about Death in the series: that the true "Master" of Death is the one who is unafraid to meet it, the theme was intertwined with other plot elements as well, like The Tale of the Three Brothers, Dumbledore and Harry's relationship, and the final conflict between Harry and Voldemort, but it is undoubtedly an accurate testament to the way in which James and Lily died too, both of them faced Voldemort withouth their wands and out of love for their son, choose to succumb to death because what was of utmost importance to both of them was not power, wealth, or desire, but to embrace death in a moment of courage so that their son could have life. in a sense they "destroyed" death because they died..if any of that makes sense to anyone beside me It does make sense lily-luna-potter! Thanks for your idea! I never thought of it that way! And actually, I think what your idea is better than my idea. I completly agree with you. In order to destroy death, you have to face it- and because you are not scared of it, you are destroying death (or you are destroying your fear of it.) DumblondKatie- QUOTE And I would also like to add ( going off what Maja_Leonora is saying ) I too think that JK Rowling is making a bold statement about Death. Shes saying that all you have to conquer at the end is death, that its the only thing left. I think this is a better way to have things, since she did kill off many characters. Its nice to think they they will be still happy and will have conquerd the last thing they need to conquer. I agree. -------------------- |
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