Lord Voldemort Returns, or How Voldy Got His Groove Back |
 Apr 30 2009, 09:38 PM
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Butterbeer Connoisseur  Posts: 1,465 Joined: 1:16pm April 18, 2007 Location: Horcrux hunting...   |
Lord Voldemort's Return Or…How Voldy got his groove back “The Dark Lord”, “He Who Must Not Be Named” or “Lord Thingy”, whatever name you know him by… has returned! How can this be, you ask? This reporter has an EXCLUSIVE interview with the…uh..er..man(?), himself. But first some background on this most infamous of evil beings. Fourteen years ago Lord Voldemort was all powerful. We know that, after getting a misinformed tip, he decided to take out the Potter family, especially their one year old son.... On that fateful night a strange and mysterious impossibility happened - after killing both James and Lily Potter, Ol’Voldy proceeded to use the Avada Kedavra curse on the small child and in a flash of green light....he, THE most evil, was no more. Here, dear readers, is the first installment of the interview that will finally answer all our questions: Gilleyweed: So, what really happened? You seemed to just... disappear... Lord Voldemort: "I miscalculated, I admit it. My curse was deflected by the women’s foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon myself. I was ripped from my body, I was less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost... but still I was alive."” G: Hmmm, yes, that’s very interesting, but…what the readers want to know is, HOW did you survive? Where did you go? LV: "You know my goal ---- to conquer death. And now, I was tested, and it appeared that one or more of my experiments had worked... for I had not been killed... Nevertheless, I was powerless as the weakest creature alive, and without the means to help myself... for I had no body..."” G: You say you were mere vapor..How were you able to perform magic then? Did you find someone to help you? How did you get a body? LV: "Not even a year ago, it happened at last… a servant returned to me. He was able to follow the instructions I gave him...a spell or two of my own invention… A potion concocted from unicorn blood and the snake venom from Nagini,…I was soon returned to an almost human form."” So dear readers, stay tuned for more answers from your favorite bad guy.. Questions for discussion: Why do you think Voldemort made conquering death his goal? Was he really afraid of death itself? Or did he just want to live forever? Voldemort is less than the meanest ghost. What image did you have from this description? Did that even seem possible to you? How do you think he traveled to that faraway place? Wormtail, the rat, finds the Dark Lord in Albania. Why do you think Voldy went there? Why is Albania important? Or is it? Why do you think Voldemort refers to Wormtail as his servant and the other DE'S as "friends"? Are they really friends? Or are they all servants? Voldemort is returned to sub-human form with a little help from Wormtail. Did Voldemort really trust Wormtail to carry out his instructions? Was Wormtail willing or manipulated into helping Voldy? How could Voldemort manipulate Wormtail, if he was mere vapor? Do you think there were trial potions and spells before they got it right? Or was the knowledge of this type of magic already known to Voldemort? How do you suppose Voldemort injested the potion to get to his rudimentary human form? Would he possess an animal to take it? (all quotes are from Goblet of Fire, Scholastic HB edition) This post has been edited by Gilleyweed: Apr 30 2009, 09:48 PM --------------------  |
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Apr 30 2009, 11:17 PM
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Ollivander's Phoenix Feather Plucker  Posts: 4,019 Joined: 1:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In the south where no Dementor can find me |
Interested ideas Gylleyweed, about trying to understand the paranoia of who ever is this guy calling himself L.V. , well I begin with some thoughts...
 QUOTE Why do you think Voldemort made conquering death his goal? Was he really afraid of death itself? Or did he just want to live forever? I imagine that Merope was emotionally death when her hubbie left her, so dying after giving birth to her son would only have been the final point of ending her live fisically also. He wanted to conquer dead but in some way he was dying little by little like his mother also, dying eight deaths. While she is at peace, he won't be at peace not in a tausend years. Imagine everything he did to avoid death, but died at the age of about 71. Much earlier than the average wizards life. 
This post has been edited by Eva Hedwig: Apr 30 2009, 11:20 PM |
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May 1 2009, 10:08 PM
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Hitchhiker's Guide of Harry's Alchemical Journeys Posts: 2,870 Joined: 9:08pm March 20, 2006 Location: In the Alchemy Lab |
QUOTE(Gilleyweed @ Apr 30 2009, 10:38 PM)  Wormtail, the rat, finds the Dark Lord in Albania. Why do you think Voldy went there? Why is Albania important? Or is it? Why do you think Voldemort refers to Wormtail as his servant and the other DE'S as "friends"? Are they really friends? Or are they all servants? Voldemort is returned to sub-human form with a little help from Wormtail. Did Voldemort really trust Wormtail to carry out his instructions? Was Wormtail willing or manipulated into helping Voldy? How could Voldemort manipulate Wormtail, if he was mere vapor? Do you think there were trial potions and spells before they got it right? Or was the knowledge of this type of magic already known to Voldemort?[/font][/color] First of all, Gilleyweed , thanks for this great thread! I love the title  !I'd like to address Wormtail and Voldemort's relationship. Of all the Death Eaters, Wormtail, despite his groveling, was a pretty strong guy. Do we see any other Death eater actually arguing with Voldemort? Snape stands up to Voldy for sure, but in a smarmy way rather than the defiant way that Wormtail does. I'm not saying that the Rat is a better person, just a bit more brave (it's those Gyffindor qualities). So is he being manipulated? To some degree yes, but in other ways I think Wormtail complies with Voldy's tactics, because he thinks if he does, he will be on the side of the winning team. That siding with Voldy will keep him alive longer than siding with Dumbledore and Harry. As far as how Voldy was able to get the Rat to comply with his will - well, The Rat was ripe to be manipulated! He'd just come off being close to being killed by his best friends, then he was discovered by a MoM witch! So why wouldn't he want to get along with Voldy who can protect him with his Dark Magic? Most likely Voldy sensed The Rat's true identity and either was inhabiting another animal at the time or when he sensed Wormtail there he quickly seized an animal to inhabit so he could influence the Rat. Remember that Dumbledore says Voldy's magic was still as powerful as ever, it's just that he didn't have a way to use a wand or to concoct a potion. He really needed Wormtail and after he had ruined his first chance with Quirrel he wasn't about to ruin Wormtail in the same way (i.e. take on his body). -------------------- Sorting begins soon for HBP! Follow the Lily and Stag on twitter, too! Thanks twiddlethosedials for the Siggy! |
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May 2 2009, 12:09 PM
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Ollivander's Phoenix Feather Plucker Posts: 4,019 Joined: 1:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In the south where no Dementor can find me |
QUOTE(HealerOne @ May 2 2009, 03:08 AM) I'd like to address Wormtail and Voldemort's relationship. Of all the Death Eaters, Wormtail, despite his groveling, was a pretty strong guy. Do we see any other Death eater actually arguing with Voldemort? Interesting thought, HealerOne, yeah, no one else dared to discuss with V.  Well V. wasn't in a position to argue much, as he himself told Pettigrew that he depended comletely on him and his cares. But as soon as V. regains a body, he is cruel with Pettigrew, letting him bleed almost to death and humilating him in front of the other D.E. before he gave him a new hand. But thinking about this scene, Pettigrew goes on arguing with V. even in front of all the other D.E. contradicting him. Interesting...  Pettigrew is very good with arguments and not easily shut up not even by the "Dark Lord". He could be the "soul brother" of Bertha Jorkins.
This post has been edited by Eva Hedwig: May 2 2009, 12:11 PM |
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May 3 2009, 10:07 AM
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,465 Joined: 1:16pm April 18, 2007 Location: Horcrux hunting... |
You are right HealerOne and Eva Hedwig, we do not see any other DE ever argue with the Dark Lord! Peter, the rat, stands up to him and actually speaks his mind. Well, what do you know?! He is a Gryffindor afterall. Why then does Voldy treat Wormtail so badly later? To punish him for speaking out, for having a different opinion than Voldy's, of course, and to remind him who's in charge. So was Peter manipulated? I think he was willingly manipulated. He knew his protection(?) would be to help Lord Voldemort in any way he could.
I think Voldemort always thought of his DE's as servants, not friends. He called them friends to their faces, because he knew he could get them to follow him by calling them "friends". But he treated them all like servants...there is a hierarchy in his followers, but they are all servants. What do you think? It's interesting Eva Hedwig, that you bring up Merope, Voldy's mother....as a reason for him to "conquer death". I hadn't thought of that. His mother died after giving birth, not even trying to stay alive for her son... did Voldemort feel abandoned? -------------------- |
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May 3 2009, 11:54 PM
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Ollivander's Phoenix Feather Plucker Posts: 4,019 Joined: 1:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In the south where no Dementor can find me |
QUOTE(Gilleyweed @ May 3 2009, 03:07 PM) His mother died after giving birth, not even trying to stay alive for her son... did Voldemort feel abandoned? There is no doubt for me whatsoever. Imagine this feeling growing up inside a cold and indifferent human "container" whose only feelings where for a man who had left her. I suppose it was like he wasn't there. When V. was without a human body in the forrest of Albania he may have felt a similar desesperation. He told his D.E. that he was waiting there with a growing desesperation as no one came looking for him during long years. It could also be that he was waiting in vain for his father to rescue him from the orphanage during years. He was forsaken from his mother and his father. QUOTE So was Peter manipulated? I think he was willingly manipulated. He knew his protection(?) would be to help Lord Voldemort in any way he could. Maybe that's the reason Pettigrew can talk to V. like this, he went for him, he brought him back and he nutured him into a "baby form" and than gave his hand for him. He was like a father-figure for him, that he never had. It's interesting that Harry also was dreaming of some relatives who would come and take him away from the Dursleys, where he suffered a lot. The difference would be that Harry was loved from the moment Lily got pregnant and had a very happy life during his first 15 months. He knew what it felt beeing loved. 
This post has been edited by Eva Hedwig: May 4 2009, 12:08 AM |
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May 4 2009, 08:49 AM
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Claw-Clipping Kneazles at the Magical Menegerie Posts: 2,428 Joined: 11:46am June 29, 2007 Location: K'nexing Lirene |
His mother died after giving birth, not even trying to stay alive for her son... did Voldemort feel abandoned? I definitely think that Voldemort felt abandoned from the beginning, even though he didn't know she was a witch that could save herself, or that he himself was a wizard. He only learned that when Dumbledore visited the orphanage when Tom Riddle was eleven. Tom inherited his coldness, arrogance and feelings of superiority from his father's side. From Jo's description of his grandparents and his father, they were all like that, and were unpopular with their neighbors. When you couple these traits with the instability of the inbred Gaunts, you have a bad combination. Long before Tom Riddle became Voldemort, he knew that he was different from the muggle orphans in the orphanage, and with his essential makeup, he felt he was smarter and better than them. However, I think that he resented his position, and his parents as well, for leaving him in an orphanage, sort of like an unwanted package, and he took it out on the other children and small animals by controlling them with cruelty. Being cruel seems to be a side of his character. Neither Merope or Tom Sr. seemed to be like that, so he didn't inherit that trait from them. What he did know was that his father abandoned his mother when she was pregnant with him, and in doing so, abandoned him as well. And, by dying after giving birth, she abandoned him a second time. Tom Riddle didn't have a good start in life by any means. Would he have been different if Merope had lived, and showered him with all the love and attention she wanted to give Tom Sr.? Would this have been enough to negate that trait of cruelty that caused him to become Voldemort? I guess we will never know. --------------------  wonderful signature is courtesy of atschpe  Thanks Mokey |
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May 4 2009, 11:23 AM
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Butterbeer Connoisseur Posts: 1,465 Joined: 1:16pm April 18, 2007 Location: Horcrux hunting... |
We agree that Voldy's abandonment as a child led him to want to conquer death. Was that the only reason? I think he was secretly afraid... afraid of being hurt, so he kept himself apart from the other kids at the orphanage and from his DE's. He never let anyone in too close. Afraid of death. It's a common fear with humans. Why is Voldemort so afraid?
HealerOne, brings up the point that Voldy must have been inhabiting other creatures and recognized Peter as the rat. Was Voldemort possessing Nagini, maybe? Is that how he acquired the snake? If he was mere vapor...can he speak? -------------------- |
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May 4 2009, 01:21 PM
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Ollivander's Phoenix Feather Plucker Posts: 4,019 Joined: 1:37am January 29, 2005 Location: In the south where no Dementor can find me |
QUOTE(sver/nor @ May 4 2009, 01:49 PM) Long before Tom Riddle became Voldemort, he knew that he was different from the muggle orphans in the orphanage, and with his essential makeup, he felt he was smarter and better than them. However, I think that he resented his position, and his parents as well, for leaving him in an orphanage, sort of like an unwanted package, and he took it out on the other children and small animals by controlling them with cruelty. Being cruel seems to be a side of his character. Neither Merope or Tom Sr. seemed to be like that, so he didn't inherit that trait from them. Good resume, sver/nor. I would add that Marvolo was sort of cruel and insensible. Remember when he nearly strangled Merope when showing the Locket to Bob Odgen. And leaving a pregnant woman and not caring what happend to his baby isn't very sensible also. And both families were very arrogant.  It's a pity that there was no posibility of helping unballanced kids in the orphanage with some kind of therapy. Maybe young Riddle would have turned out more human if he had someone to talk to. QUOTE Was Voldemort possessing Nagini, maybe? Is that how he acquired the snake? If he was mere vapor...can he speak? I am sure, that V. could speak, Gilleyweed, he met Quirrell and convinced him to take him back to Hogwarts with him. It could be possible that V. possed the snake for a little while, but I guess that he convinced her to give him her milk to feed him so he could regain a rudimentare human form. Pettigrew was searching for V. and found him guided by other animals, so it must have been he, who spoke first to V. This post has been edited by Eva Hedwig: May 4 2009, 01:31 PM |
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May 4 2009, 08:09 PM
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Muffin Mistress Posts: 2,178 Joined: 10:42pm March 8, 2008 Location: RG Cookie Factory - reciting: "Oven at 350 F is too warm to touch with bare hands" |
Voldemort is really a symbol of the ongoing discussions about what's genes and what's environment.
The 'riddle' is: did he have a choise? And the whole story about Harry tells us, that at least JKR has the needle slightly towards *yes*. So many characters with tough lifes makes it without becoming a serial killer or monsters in other ways, and then there's those coming from 'good' homes and still becoming gits! We even learn of a family (the Blakes) where the two kids choose each their 'camp' to begin with (but eventually ends up on the good side both of them) - so the story tells about human characters as complex and confusing as we see it in life itself. It's even said to be a discussion that will never be ended completely. I do believe everybody has a choise. The bigger riddle for me is, do all get to see the choises at hand in time to change to be better souls if they did make bad choise(s) earlier on? Can it be corrected? Voldemort had the same chances as the other kids in the orphanage, and I doubt (even if we are never told) that all the kids there ended up even remotely like him. The others were also abandoned for all sorts of reasons, and they received the same treatment - generally speaking - like he did. I'm convinced his genes had him come out with a really 'black soul' in the first place, and then it was underlined (destincted? - done worse? for lack of words) even more by the complete lack of love that he experienced the next crucial years of his existence. (And I'm not saying there's no love in a orphanage - just that HE didn't see/feel it.) -------------------- |
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