Maternal vs. Paternal Love in the HP Series, Which Dominated? |
 Jul 1 2008, 01:15 PM
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Grand Pooh-Bah of the Poking Sticks Emporium  Posts: 6,834 Joined: 3:53pm January 4, 2008 Location: Fine-tuning her Spambot Magnet  |
Throughout the HP series, the theme if Love is interwoven brilliantly and it is a major theme in the story. There is also an undercurrent of maternal vs. paternal love as well. To many readers it seems as though maternal love played a more prominent role in the series than paternal love and it was almost as if paternal love was left more to the wayside. Wasn't it after all Lily's sacrifice that enabled an infant Harry to survive Voldemort's attack?
This poll is about how you as a reader, feel how maternal and paternal love were portrayed, and if one type of love was highlighted more in Rowling's story than the other. Do you feel that both maternal and paternal love had equal importance in the story? You may choose from more than one of the options given above in the poll, and vote for "other" if your choice reflects something other than has been given in the poll. You are encouraged to support your views with canon evidence, and pose your own questions as well. This post has been edited by lirene: Jul 9 2008, 09:57 PM --------------------  |
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Jul 10 2008, 06:41 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility  Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
Great thread, Lirene!
 If we look at it from the perspective of Harry in particular, I would have to say that paternal love is the more dominant love. Aside from his late mother, Harry pretty much only has Mrs. Weasley as a source of maternal love. Admittedly, she's a great source of maternal love, but when you think of all of Harry's sources of paternal love (aside from his late father) - Arthur, Hagrid, Sirius, Remus, DD, and at one point, Fudge - I would say that Harry's paternal love is far more dominant than his maternal love. Now, if we continue look at Harry, but strictly from the perspective of his late biological parents, I would have to say that it's relatively equal. True, Lily's actions had a far more profound magical effect on Harry's life, but in times of need, Harry looked more to his father's image for strength, support, and guidance (not to mention the fact that it was a mere technicality that made Lily's actions have the effect that they did rather than James' - both parents bravely did everything they could to protect Harry). -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Jul 10 2008, 06:59 PM
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Sundae-Nut-Chopper at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 948 Joined: 12:30am December 18, 2006  |
I agree, great poll, lirene! Um, so far as I can see, I'm the only one who's actually voted in the poll: I voted for "both portrayed equally" (as can be plainly seen
 ). Initially, my gut reaction was that maternal love was highlighted more so than paternal love, due to Lily's sacrifice--but then I remembered that Harry's Patronus is a stag, his representation of his father, and how protective that turns out to be in so many different situations (even the word Patronus, in its Latin roots, means both protector and father). A mother's love and a father's love is certainly different, or at least demonstrated differently, and we see that in HP, I think. But in general, I think that each parent's love is held to be special, honored, and important. If he'd had the opportunity, I believe that James would have sacrificed himself for Harry in the way that Lily did, too.Plus, I think that Dudley was ruined equitably by both Vernon's and Petunia's "love," so that's another consideration! 
-------------------- "...the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters" - Sirius Black (OOTP14)
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Jul 10 2008, 07:43 PM
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Gambol and Japes' Research Department Posts: 1,387 Joined: 6:16pm June 18, 2007 Location: Gryffindor Quidditch Team tryouts  |
very good poll indeed, but also very intriguing.
i voted for both were portrayed equally. my first instinct was to vote for maternal love, like StepInTime said. however, thinking a bit more i think they both were very important in the plot. for starters, james did say "take harry and go!" to lily when LV invaded their house. i think it was a noble display of love that he tried, at least tried, to hold off LV to give a chance of survival to lily and harry. there were lots of fatherly figures throughout the books to harry and that were of great importance. but the maternal love is still veeryyy important. so thats why i voted for what i voted. 
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Jul 10 2008, 11:17 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
 I didn't even see the poll! However, now that I've wised up...I would have to say that in the grand scheme of things, both are portrayed equally (or rather as equally important). I still stand by what I said about Harry's particular character recieving more sources of paternal love than maternal, and I think the same thing can be said about the series as a whole, but the series as a whole also has a healthy mixture of importance on both sides. We see great and/or devoted mothers like Molly, Narcissa, Lily, and Petunia - even Hermione acts as a bit of a mother figure for Ron and Harry (especially in DH). At the same time, we see a lot of the same on the male side in Arthur, Lucius, Vernon, James, Remus, Sirius, Hagrid, DD, and Xenophelius. Even though the number of paternal sources seems to be more than the number of maternal sources, I don't get the impression that Jo was trying to show one form as more important than the other; she only seems to make the point that these two forms are very different, and are expressed in different ways. In fact, if you think about this a little bit deeper, this could be one of Jo's ways of illustrating a more general concept about love as a whole - no form of love has greater value/importance than another; each of love's vast forms are equally valued, and are equally important to human development. -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Jul 11 2008, 08:48 PM
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Transfiguration Today's Star Reporter Posts: 2,027 Joined: 3:59pm May 15, 2008 Location: Sunny Phoenix, Arizona("It's a Dry Heat!")  |
All the responses thus far have been great.
My vote went for the paternal inflences being greater. While Lily Potter and later Molly Weasley are great female role models, Petunia Dursley and even that hag Umbriddge are not. McGonagall is not remotely like a mother figure, as far as I can see. In contrast, not only do we have Hagrid and Dumbledore as types of paternal figures for Harry, there are also Lupin and Black as well. Then there is the incomparable Arthur Weasley-- Sirius may have been Harry's god father, but Arthur was more of a in loco parentis. As one of you noted, there was also James Potter, who influence/protected Harry postumously through the patronus figure of the stag. It seems clear that the male role models outnumber the female. -------------------- "And now, Harry, let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure."
Phoenix avatar courtesy of ofenjen; thanks to atschpe for help |
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Jul 11 2008, 11:36 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
QUOTE(Fricka @ Jul 11 2008, 08:48 PM)  All the responses thus far have been great. My vote went for the paternal inflences being greater. While Lily Potter and later Molly Weasley are great female role models, Petunia Dursley and even that hag Umbriddge are not. McGonagall is not remotely like a mother figure, as far as I can see. In contrast, not only do we have Hagrid and Dumbledore as types of paternal figures for Harry, there are also Lupin and Black as well. Then there is the incomparable Arthur Weasley-- Sirius may have been Harry's god father, but Arthur was more of a in loco parentis. As one of you noted, there was also James Potter, who influence/protected Harry postumously through the patronus figure of the stag. It seems clear that the male role models outnumber the female. I totally agree with the whole strength in numbers concept (at least, in terms of the number of sources), but IMO, Jo didn't really place more emphasis on paternal influences, or give them more overall metaphorical strength. We never focused on one side over the other for very long. -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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Jul 13 2008, 01:09 PM
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Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 116 Joined: 2:50am January 3, 2008 Location: the kitchen chilling with house elves. |
This is a really interesting thread, lirene, one of the things I have noticed about maternal vs. paternal love in this series is that a male or female role model is slightly different than someone who exemplifies paternal or maternal love. Narcissa is obviously not a role model to anyone, but her maternal love for her son saves Harry. This doesn't necessarily show that Narcissa is a suddenly a good person, but simply the overwhelming strength of love, a power which can overwhelm and change anyone except maybe a psychopath like Voldemort. Maternal love is entirely more sacrificial while paternal love is more protective. James stood up to fight against Voldemort so Lily and Harry could escape while Lily sacrificed herself in Harry's place. While I think that in quantity those who exhibit maternal/paternal love are fairly equal I think in quality they vary extremely. This is not to say that one is of more value than another, just that the manifestations of each type are very different. Paternal love seems to give Harry a solid base, a strong foundation, father figures are always explaining, giving answers to build a life on, while maternal love provides more of the tacit, fiercely emotional support. Many times maternal love seems to be a catalyst for change in the story, Lily's sacrifice, Narcissa's desperation, Hermione and Mrs. Weasley's nurturing, while paternal love provides the solid ground to move forward on, Hagrid's introduction of Harry to the wizarding world, Dumbledore's teachings. Of course, sometimes each type of love can obstruct, Mrs. Weasley's prying into the Trio's plans, Dumbledore's love towards Harry, his protectiveness, was slightly dangerous for the task which he was setting Harry up to complete. All in all, love is the most important theme in the book, and while I did vote for maternal being more important simply because of it's far reaching effects, I do believe that each is crucial to not only the lives of these characters, but to humanity overall and Jo through her wonderful writing shows us this importance.
-------------------- "As is a story, so is life. What matters in not how long it is, but how good it is"--Seneca
 thank you dillypoo for the sig! |
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Jul 13 2008, 03:11 PM
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Hiding in the Iron Maiden at Borgin and Burkes Posts: 327 Joined: 10:18pm November 9, 2006 Location: alone on a hill, perfectly still |
Wonderful topic, lirene.
Although both maternal and paternal love play immense thematic roles in the books, I somewhat think maternal love has a bit of an edge. Also, I see JKR's use of parental influence as a thematic issue displaying the consequences of the lack of each, as well as the presence. Harry is raised by neither of his parents. But he did have one year (the key, most vital year in a person's life whereby the personality is formed) in which both Lily and James acted as loving, interactive, and supportive parents to their infant son. Lily, of course, additionally conferred upon Harry the protection of her Sacrifice...a huge, if not intended, enhancement of her role in Harry's life. Snape, on the other hand, had (seemingly, and hinted at by JKR I believe) the love of his mother, but not his father, who abused and crushed the spirit out of both of them. We see how that scenario contorted Snape's character...which plays out in the course of his involvement in the entire plot. Tom Riddle had no love from, or even presence of, either parent when an infant, or growing child, or adult. His narcissistic, insecure, grandiose, unstable, psychotic and sociopathic nature are the result. Dumbledore had the love of both his parents, with greatness of character as a result. Still, his father is sent to Azkaban for revenging his daughter by acting out against her attackers, and Kendra stays home to raise her family. It is possible to infer that DD's lack of paternal influence in his later adolescence had a negative effect, making him susceptible to Grindelwald's deceits and to his own burgeoning ego. Draco was raised, loved, and spoiled by both of his spoiled parents...and he's a git, though not, I think, warped and evil as Tom Riddle is. Narcissa seems to be the more involved, fiercely protective parent here. The Weasleys are wonderful, loving, guiding and supporting parents. Their children, other than arrogant Percy (who Molly seems to have spoiled) are terrific and stable, on the whole. There's more to this, but I don't want to bore anybody. I just have a sense that maternal love is given the edge by JKR. -------------------- Come thunder! Come lightning!
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Jul 13 2008, 03:33 PM
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In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party |
QUOTE(Tarantellegra @ Jul 13 2008, 01:09 PM) Maternal love is entirely more sacrificial while paternal love is more protective. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the part in bold. Molly is arguably the most maternal character in the series; you would almost expect to see her picture beside the word "maternal" in the dictionary. In DH in particular, we see just how instinctive her protective nature is when Ginny nearly gets AK'd by Bella (although this protective nature is evident pretty much all throughout the series). Overall, I would say that sacrificial and protective nature together is what makes up both maternal and paternal instincts. The first goal is certainly to protect, but that may include a sacrifice if need be. This pretty much sums up Lily's scenario in the Godric's Hollow incident: she did all that she could to protect both herself and Harry, but once she realized she was trapped, she made the transition to a sacrifice in the hopes of at least saving Harry. Similarily, for James' scenario, he didn't even have a chance at trying to protect himself or his family, so he just went straight to a sacrifice to buy the others a bit of time. -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight?
And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance -- |
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