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Maternal vs. Paternal Love in the HP Series, Which Dominated?

Which type of love dominated?
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Total Votes: 94
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lirene View Member Profile	Jul 1 2008, 01:15 PM Post #1
Grand Pooh-Bah of the Poking Sticks Emporium Posts: 7,168 Joined: 3:53pm January 4, 2008 Location: Fine-tuning her Spambot Magnet	Throughout the HP series, the theme if Love is interwoven brilliantly and it is a major theme in the story. There is also an undercurrent of maternal vs. paternal love as well. To many readers it seems as though maternal love played a more prominent role in the series than paternal love and it was almost as if paternal love was left more to the wayside. Wasn't it after all Lily's sacrifice that enabled an infant Harry to survive Voldemort's attack? This poll is about how you as a reader, feel how maternal and paternal love were portrayed, and if one type of love was highlighted more in Rowling's story than the other. Do you feel that both maternal and paternal love had equal importance in the story? You may choose from more than one of the options given above in the poll, and vote for "other" if your choice reflects something other than has been given in the poll. You are encouraged to support your views with canon evidence, and pose your own questions as well. This post has been edited by lirene: Jul 9 2008, 09:57 PM --------------------

Replies

Professor L E Sn... Professor L E Snape View Member Profile	Aug 27 2008, 08:35 PM Post #2
Junior Dishwasher at The Leaky Cauldron Posts: 641 Joined: 8:47pm August 26, 2008 Location: The room of requirement waiting for Snape	Brilliant topic/question. I think the biggest problem when addressing this question is the gender attachment to maternal/paternal love. Just because someone is male, doesn't neccessarily mean that their love for another character is paternal, and similarily female love isn't always maternal. I am primarliy thinking of McGonagoll at this point, while she undoubtably has a form of love for Harry, I don't think that it can be classified as maternal. Similarily (and I am sure this point will get lots of objections) I don't really see Siruis as having a paternal love for Harry-he loves him, more than he realises, of that I have no doubt, but is it paternal love? I think Sirius spent so much of his youth in Azkaban that he simply doesn't have the maturity to offer Harry that level of guidance. I think Dumbledore's assessment of him being a mixture of a father figure and brother is most accurate-to me, it symbolises more of a brotherly love than a paternal love. I think that the Weasley parents are both wonderful examples of maternal and paternal love, and of a family unit as a whole. I think that Harry has several key male role models, but Mrs Weasley seems to be the only female role model that really sticks out. Obviously, there are the Hogwarts teachers, but (perhaps with the exception of Professor Sprout, and I mean that as in her general personna) none of them seem specifically maternal, in the same way that none of the male teachers strike me as particularly paternal. Does Dumbledore have a paternal love for Harry? Could he have sent Harry to his death (even if he thought Harry would return from it) if he was actually his son, if he had that actual blood tie to him? I don't know. If Harry had not been an orphan, who would we say still showed him maternal/paternal love? Probably only Molly Weasley-all the other loves would probably be characterised slightly differently. Obviously, I realise that if Harry had his own mother, Molly probably wouldn't seem to mother him as much (she is certainly more motherly to harry than she is to hermione), so it is kind of a moot point. I think that the stereotype of motherly love is more prevelant, but I think that there are fairly equal relfections of both maternal and paternal love shown, especially in regards to love shown to Harry. -------------------- ....and there was a noise like a plunger being withdrawn from a blocked sink......

harrypottergeek2 View Member Profile	Aug 27 2008, 10:50 PM Post #3
In Charge of Invisible Books of Invisibility Posts: 1,153 Joined: 12:36am January 18, 2008 Location: Waterloo, ON - getting Butterbeer for Hagrid's "Support Harry Potter" party	QUOTE(Professor L E Snape @ Aug 27 2008, 09:35 PM) Similarily (and I am sure this point will get lots of objections) I don't really see Siruis as having a paternal love for Harry-he loves him, more than he realises, of that I have no doubt, but is it paternal love? I think Sirius spent so much of his youth in Azkaban that he simply doesn't have the maturity to offer Harry that level of guidance. I think Dumbledore's assessment of him being a mixture of a father figure and brother is most accurate-to me, it symbolises more of a brotherly love than a paternal love. Well, I agree wholeheartedly with the whole father-figure and brother mix, but IMO, being a father-figure is exactly how a non-biological male provides a source of paternal love for someone (in fact, the way I see it, the terms are virtually interchangeable). As for the brother part (and the part I bolded), I do think that the link between Harry Sirius (i.e. James) is what makes their relationship so much stronger than what you normally see between godfather and godson; Harry sees Sirius as his closest connection to the father he never knew (he even says/thinks that having Sirius around is the next best thing to having his father back), and Sirius sees his lost friendship with James in Harry. However, I do think that both characters realize the medium in their relationship (i.e. that Harry doesn't think of Sirius as a James substitute, nor that Sirius thinks of Harry as a James substitute). From Harry's perspective, his distinction is a lot more obvious, but even though Sirius does see a lot of James in Harry, his instincts as a godfather have always been evident from the moment Harry started to trust him in POA. We see this in their convo when they exit the Shack, the letter he sends to Harry once he escapes with Buckbeak, his decision to travel back to Hogwarts in GoF once he notices that things are starting to look dangerous for Harry, and his willingness to rush to Harry's rescue in OotP. QUOTE(Professor L E Snape @ Aug 27 2008, 09:35 PM) Does Dumbledore have a paternal love for Harry? Could he have sent Harry to his death (even if he thought Harry would return from it) if he was actually his son, if he had that actual blood tie to him? Hmmm, interesting points. I would have to say that DD had a lot of paternal love for Harry: he always did what was best for Harry (at least in terms of staying alive), which is something any good father would do. Yet once he had a way of ensuring these needs in the long run, he didn't stop there; he tried to make life as comfortable and pain-free as humanly possible (he says this himself at the end of OotP). In general, DD didn't have many close personal relationships - not even with his own family. Harry, however, was very important to DD - not just as a pupil, or as the key to destroying LV for good, but they had as close of a friendship as a headmaster could have with one of his students (especially considering how distant DD generally was with people). As for whether or not DD would have been able to do the same thing to Harry if they had been blood relatives, it's hard to say. I think he still would have tried to find a way of doing it in the least painful way as possible (or at least to make the inevitable seem more acceptable and less terrifying), but it would have likely been a shade more difficult for him to mentally commit himself to it. This, of course, is all before learning about the strengthened blood connection that Harry was given - once DD knew about that, everything would become much easier on DD (but still a shade more difficult than how it actually happened). QUOTE(Professor L E Snape @ Aug 27 2008, 09:35 PM) I think that the stereotype of motherly love is more prevelant, but I think that there are fairly equal relfections of both maternal and paternal love shown, especially in regards to love shown to Harry. Ah, now this is a great point! I do think that Jo set out to fuel the modern-day stereotype of motherly love through Lily and Molly (and Narcissa too, I suppose), but I also think she set out to explain that paternal love is also something quite unique through Arthur, James, Sirius, DD, Hagrid, Lucius, etc. IMO, you're right in saying that modern-day stereotypes tend to set prevelance on maternal love, but I do think that if one were to stop and think about it, but types are well-represented (in both today's society and in the Potterverse and other fictional stories). -------------------- "Tell me why, why must we fight? And why must we kill in the name of what we think is right? No more! No war! 'Cause how do you know?" -- P.O.D. - from their new album When Angels and Serpents Dance --

Emms View Member Profile	May 29 2009, 11:41 AM Post #4
Monster Book Stacker Posts: 388 Joined: 3:02pm January 28, 2005 Location: Trying to find Platform 9 3/4 in Grand Central Station	QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Aug 28 2008, 04:50 AM) However, I do think that both characters realize the medium in their relationship (i.e. that Harry doesn't think of Sirius as a James substitute, nor that Sirius thinks of Harry as a James substitute). From Harry's perspective, his distinction is a lot more obvious, but even though Sirius does see a lot of James in Harry, his instincts as a godfather have always been evident from the moment Harry started to trust him in POA. We see this in their convo when they exit the Shack, the letter he sends to Harry once he escapes with Buckbeak, his decision to travel back to Hogwarts in GoF once he notices that things are starting to look dangerous for Harry, and his willingness to rush to Harry's rescue in OotP. I completely agree. I might be a bit biased because Sirius is one of my very favorite characters, but I think that-while Sirius maybe did struggle with place he found himself in his post Azkaban life, and while, yes, he could be quite reckless-it wasn't out of lack of paternal feelings towards Harry. The "mixture of father and brother" idea I think is very spot on, but at the same time, he does have a wealthy of godfatherly and parental/paternal instincts regarding Harry: he worries about him, he goes to great risk to be near him when Harry's in trouble in GoF, he even wants to legally adopt him for heavens' sake. Can you imagine the scene that resulted when, once the Order became aware that Harry and Luna and everyone were in the Department of Mysteries with the Death Eaters, someone (maybe Remus or Molly) tried to tell Sirius that he couldn't go fight, that he couldn't help save Harry? Sirius would never have let them go to the Ministry to rescue his godson without him, never, no matter what the consequence. (Sadly, in his case, the consequence went too far.) Sirius loved Harry like a godfather loves his godchild, and I imagine-not having any godparents myself-that that might well be a mixture of predominantly paternal feelings mixed with older/younger brotherly love and companionship. Paternal feelings, however, were the dominant ones. I think the main difference between maternal and paternal love in the books is that maternal love seems to be more pure, while paternal is more convoluted and complicated. Harry's main maternal figure (not counting bad ones, like Petunia), is Molly, who obviously grows to care about him as if he were one of her children-she sends him Christmas presents along with Ron's, etc. Though she is really his friend's mother, she also sees herself as Harry's mother to some extent, and indeed she's the only mother he's known. The paternal figures, however, are mixed with other feelings: Arthur doesn't seem as involved in Harry's life as much as Molly is, or at least until the later books. Dumbledore (and Remus in the beginning) both have "Professor" attached to their title. Remus also seems to grow to view Harry more as an "equal" than as a son-you wouldn't name your son-figure godfather to your biological son, would you? While Hagrid IS a good deal older than Harry, I think they're more friends (maybe brothers) than father and son figures to each other. Sirius, it seems, is the only one who had any sort of purely paternal feelings regarding Harry, though those themselves were mixed up because of Sirius' issues, though he did seem to play the part more than anybody else. I guess my point is, while the motherly affection that Harry was receiving was more obviously motherly and focused from one place, Harry's fatherly affection was from many different sources, maybe not quite as pure (except in the case of Sirius, perhaps) but no less strong. -------------------- There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.

Posts in this topic

lirene Maternal vs. Paternal Love in the HP Series Jul 1 2008, 01:15 PM

harrypottergeek2 Great thread, Lirene! If we look at it from... Jul 10 2008, 06:41 PM

StepInTime I agree, great poll, lirene! Um, so far as I c... Jul 10 2008, 06:59 PM

tonksgirl very good poll indeed, but also very intriguing. ... Jul 10 2008, 07:43 PM

harrypottergeek2 I didn't even see the poll! However, now ... Jul 10 2008, 11:17 PM

Fricka All the responses thus far have been great. My vot... Jul 11 2008, 08:48 PM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(Fricka @ Jul 11 2008, 08:48 PM) All... Jul 11 2008, 11:36 PM

Tarantellegra This is a really interesting thread, lirene, one o... Jul 13 2008, 01:09 PM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(Tarantellegra @ Jul 13 2008, 01:09 ... Jul 13 2008, 03:33 PM

Lost Centaur Wonderful topic, lirene. Although both maternal a... Jul 13 2008, 03:11 PM

Ex Libres Cogito If this poll takes only the reader's perspecti... Jul 16 2008, 11:37 AM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(Ex Libres Cogito @ Jul 16 2008, 12... Jul 16 2008, 02:21 PM

Lemmy I voted for Maternal, as it always seemed to me th... Jul 16 2008, 12:25 PM

silviera QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Jul 10 2008, 11... Jul 25 2008, 05:58 AM

VoodooPadfoot I think that there is a lot more emphasis on the l... Jul 25 2008, 07:06 AM

Henrietta I voted for equal portrayal because while Lily... Jul 25 2008, 09:23 AM

katihpfan I was shocked to see so few votes for paternal lov... Jul 25 2008, 09:06 PM

blue4t In my opinion, maternal love dominated. Harry is ... Jul 28 2008, 10:18 PM

Mary Wanguard Wow, this topic really got me confused. So that a... Jul 30 2008, 06:01 AM

weaselyfan I think that the theme might be best as parental l... Aug 4 2008, 09:51 AM

momwitch Interesting topic, Lirene! But I just wante... Aug 4 2008, 11:18 AM

Pleione QUOTE(momwitch @ Aug 4 2008, 12:18 PM) Bu... Aug 4 2008, 12:02 PM

momwitch I'm really liking this train of thought, Pleio... Aug 4 2008, 02:33 PM

ami louthwaite Well, I suppose you could put the 'love' a... Aug 4 2008, 03:45 PM

harrypottergeek2 Excellent posts here! Just to add to them: QU... Aug 5 2008, 02:47 AM

momwitch Ah, interesting! But I do think that Love can... Aug 5 2008, 10:08 AM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(momwitch @ Aug 5 2008, 11:08 AM) I ... Aug 5 2008, 01:41 PM

Cassy V Another great discussion. I just wondered if y... Aug 6 2008, 07:04 PM

momwitch QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Aug 5 2008, 06:4... Aug 6 2008, 10:05 PM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(Cassy V @ Aug 6 2008, 08:04 PM) Ano... Aug 7 2008, 06:43 PM

Professor L E Snape Brilliant topic/question. I think the biggest prob... Aug 27 2008, 08:35 PM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(Professor L E Snape @ Aug 27 2008, 09... Aug 27 2008, 10:50 PM

Emms QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Aug 28 2008, 04... May 29 2009, 11:41 AM

Lou_Lovegood QUOTE(Emms @ May 29 2009, 05:41 PM) QUOTE... Aug 12 2009, 06:07 AM

lirene First of all, kudos to all of the wonderful insigh... Aug 27 2008, 11:34 PM

Nickel I voted for both being equal. Harry is someone wh... Sep 6 2008, 02:23 AM

harrypottergeek2 QUOTE(Nickel @ Sep 6 2008, 03:23 AM) what... Sep 7 2008, 12:45 PM

Professor L E Snape QUOTE(Nickel @ Sep 6 2008, 08:23 AM) Sorr... Sep 6 2008, 10:00 PM

Love4Fawkes QUOTE(harrypottergeek2 @ Sep 7 2008, 12:4... Sep 8 2008, 08:07 PM

Professor L E Snape QUOTE(Love4Fawkes @ Sep 9 2008, 02:07 AM)... Sep 8 2008, 10:03 PM

harrypottergeek2 I didn't mean to say that Augusta's and Pe... Sep 15 2008, 07:23 PM

wickedboy I think they were shown to be equal. Harry's ... Oct 30 2008, 06:24 AM

Dragonsun It was a really tough decision. The male character... Oct 31 2008, 09:18 PM

wickedboy I'd say both. Lupin, James, Arthur, Harry, Ro... Nov 9 2008, 09:18 AM

nevertobeparted. Because of Lily's sacrifice, and JKR's own... Nov 9 2008, 11:54 AM

Eva Hedwig I voted for both parents. Thinking about all of t... Nov 9 2008, 04:19 PM

MesserMoony I can't help thinking that maternal love domin... Jan 3 2009, 07:01 PM

Wandguardnoodle QUOTE(Professor L E Snape @ Aug 27 2008, 09... Jan 22 2009, 10:30 AM

VoodooPadfoot I really feel that maternal love dominated the ser... Jun 23 2009, 05:55 AM

cooncatbob QUOTE(VoodooPadfoot @ Jun 23 2009, 03:55 ... Jul 19 2009, 10:38 PM

ravenclawgal608 I believe they are both equally protrayed. On the ... Aug 9 2009, 09:39 AM

midzy i think it was maternal love that dominated most i... Sep 1 2009, 11:35 PM

patronuscharm734 Maternal is far more dominant. With only the exce... Feb 2 2010, 06:48 PM

cminmd I agree with Patronus charm that the mothers have ... Feb 13 2010, 01:30 PM

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