Missing Parents and Grandparents, Coincidence or Commentary? |
 Sep 8 2009, 09:36 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher  Posts: 145 Joined: 11:46pm June 12, 2009  |
This is something that's been bugging me for awhile. Though bits and pieces about different characters' parents/grandparents have been discussed in other fora, I'm not sure if this has been covered as its own topic. If it has, please forgive.
Here goes... Besides Sirius (if we even count Mrs. Black's portrait as a "parent"), it seems that none of the important 30 to 40-something characters have parents. Their parents are either dead, presumed dead, or missing from the story (outside of recollections about childhood, e.g. Snape and Petunia). (NB: I don't count Tonks because she's in her early 20's when we meet her). And aside from Neville (whose grandmother and late grandfather functioned as guardians), it seems that none of the important younger characters have grandparents (again, dead, presumed dead, or missing from the story). (NB: I don't count Great Aunt Muriel, since she doesn't really fill a "grandparent" role...and let's face it, no one seemed to want her around). Furthermore, none the older grandparent-aged characters seem to have children or grandchildren (or they may have had children, but they're not mentioned either). From various interviews, we know that part of the reason JKR made Harry an orphan was due to the death of her own mother, a woman that her own children would never know (if memory serves, her first child was still a toddler). To my knowledge, I don't recall JKR stating that this was also the reason for the noticeable absence of grandparent-aged parents in the stories (again, excluding Neville's grandmother), but it seems reasonable that it could be (if there's something out there either way, please direct me to it!) So here are my questions to fuel the discussion... Does this lacking bother you? If so, why? If not, why not? Do you think it's a coincidence or was it planned? Why? What does this say about families, as represented in the series? What does this say about familial legacy, as represented in the series? What does this say about maturity (or lack thereof), particularly with reference to the men in the series (since most of the 30-40 somethings are men)? And finally, concerning Mrs. Longbottom, how does she hold up as, basically, the grandparent of the series? What does her character say about grandparents or the role of grandparents, if anything? What do you think of her? I welcome any of your thoughts on this. Note, this is not a place to discuss who's dead or not dead, or, if they are dead, how they died. This is bigger than those kinds of details. This post has been edited by SeveraSphyrna: Sep 8 2009, 10:04 PM |
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Sep 9 2009, 05:49 PM
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Director of Farcical Aquatic Ceremonies  Posts: 8,971 Joined: 2:55pm January 28, 2005 Location: Classified, until such time as the Ministry sees fit to release it.  |
This is a great topic.
 And since it includes analysis of whether the families in the series represent commentary or personal feelings on the part of JKR, the Obscurus Books forum is a perfect place for it.  Everyone hold on to your wands and buttocks while this thread finds its new home.  Pleione LL Moderator |
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Sep 10 2009, 07:51 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 145 Joined: 11:46pm June 12, 2009 |
Looking at my questions again, I realize that I asked way too many, and some of them are really hard to answer (I still don't think I can properly answer a few, which is why I'm asking!). FYI: you're welcome to answer as many or as few as you like, whatever the mood strikes. I just posted all the ones that I could think of to get the discussion started...
 By the way, thanks for the move Pleione....I wasn't sure where to put it in the first place, frankly (since presumably all these people died or were forgotten before Book 1). |
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Sep 11 2009, 02:19 PM
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic  Posts: 9,193 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
I don't think the lack of grandparents (with the exception of Harry's) was planned, they were just never important enough to mention, and thus the one's that probably would have been mentioned (such as Ron's or Hermione's) were essentially killed off by default (like the non-magical little sister Hermione was going to have).
I also don't think we can consider Augusta as a typical grandparent, because she is greatly shaped by having essentially lost her son and daughter-in-law and having to bring up their child. --------------------  W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Sep 11 2009, 06:08 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher Posts: 145 Joined: 11:46pm June 12, 2009 |
QUOTE(roonwit @ Sep 11 2009, 01:19 PM)  I don't think the lack of grandparents (with the exception of Harry's) was planned, they were just never important enough to mention, and thus the one's that probably would have been mentioned (such as Ron's or Hermione's) were essentially killed off by default (like the non-magical little sister Hermione was going to have). Thanks roonwit...that goes to one of my other questions...how are grandparents not important enough to mention (or include) when there's all this talk about who is and who isn't sufficiently pure blood, who is and who isn't a blood traitor, etc.? There's a lot riding on familial history in the way people regard each other and the MoM's Newspeak, policies, and investigations...but no grandparents at the same time. Yes, there is an older generation, but they are, genetically-speaking, unattached to the younger generations. It's strange to me, as if family and familial legacy/memory is only bound in the current generation of adults and their interpretation of what is and what has passed (save Mrs. Black's incessant anti-muggle, anti-blood traitor shrieking, of course). Ha, I'd forgotten about Hermione's phantom sister... QUOTE(roonwit @ Sep 11 2009, 01:19 PM) I also don't think we can consider Augusta as a typical grandparent, because she is greatly shaped by having essentially lost her son and daughter-in-law and having to bring up their child. Agreed...I kind of see her as a cantankerous mom...certainly a mom I wouldn't want to mess with, but a mom nonetheless. |
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Sep 12 2009, 01:36 AM
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Personal Secretary to The Minister of Magic Posts: 9,193 Joined: 4:57am January 28, 2005 Location: near Muggleswick, UK |
QUOTE(SeveraSphyrna @ Sep 12 2009, 12:08 AM) Thanks roonwit...that goes to one of my other questions...how are grandparents not important enough to mention (or include) when there's all this talk about who is and who isn't sufficiently pure blood, who is and who isn't a blood traitor, etc.? But for Harry and his friends all that stuff doesn't matter, so they don't mention it. Draco on the other hand does mention his grandfather to Slughorn, so it possibly happens a lot more amongst those who do care about ancestry.
-------------------- W.L.Y.J. We love you Jo |
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Sep 12 2009, 11:00 PM
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Being Eaten by the Pea Soup Posts: 22 Joined: 10:33pm March 11, 2009 |
Well, I think part of why we don't see any grandparents is probably because there wasn't reason enough to introduce them. And I have a theory that (in the wizard families anyway) a lot of them were killed during Voldemort's first reign. At least, that's what I'm betting happened. Or they passed away before Harry's time.
This post has been edited by fantasylover12001: Sep 12 2009, 11:01 PM |
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Sep 19 2009, 08:39 AM
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Claw-Clipping Kneazles at the Magical Menegerie Posts: 2,452 Joined: 9:26am July 24, 2007 Location: I'm either in the Muggle Underground Forum or at the Hogwarts Express Roundhouse |
I guess it's a question for the Scottish Book: What happened to Harry's grandparents:
James and Lily were born in 1960. Harry was born in 1980. Harry's sets of grandparents would have been born anywhere from 1925 (my sainted mom was 36 when she had me) to 1942 (and that would almost have made them graduating from Hogwarts and getting married the same day... of course, WWII was going on in the Muggle world, and I cannot see wizards not taking their burden for Britain). At the time of James and Lilys death, that would have made his grandparents 39 years old on the young side, and 56 years old on the old side. It's worth knowing... what happened to the grands...? -------------------- The last enemy to be destroyed is death-- First Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verse 26 The epitaph of James and Lily Potter |
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Sep 19 2009, 05:09 PM
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Knight Bus Driver in Training Posts: 600 Joined: 6:25am December 9, 2007 Location: Canada |
It's kind of amusing, Johann, - at least I find it so -, but in referring to those of her fans who are ... um ... obsessive about the books (nobody we know, eh? HA,HA!) Jo specifically used the example of Harry's grandparents. She said the following, not as a criticism, but in gratitude to such fans and in amazement that they exist:
"It would have been humanly impossible to answer every single question that fans have. Because I am dealing with a level of obsession in some of my fans that will not rest until they know the middle names of Harry's great-great-grandparents." - JKR (NBC Dateline, July 29, 2007) Quite frankly, I think that some characters were not put in the series because they were not directly relevant to the story. They would neither further the plot nor inform us further in any important way about the characters who are relevant. Thus, they were left offstage, as it were. LW -------------------- |
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Sep 20 2009, 01:12 PM
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Claw-Clipping Kneazles at the Magical Menegerie Posts: 2,452 Joined: 9:26am July 24, 2007 Location: I'm either in the Muggle Underground Forum or at the Hogwarts Express Roundhouse |
Laura,
I'm of two minds. One one hand, we actually see Lilys parents once, at Kings' Cross, the day she goes to school for the first time in 1972 or 3 or so (my God, I was a HS 10th/11th grader then)... that they are out of the story, considering Riddle's first attempt at wizarding hegemony, can mean they were killed early on. OTOH, as you mentioned, they aren't vital to the plot or theme, and they're not written in. Thank you, Betty Bivins (my 10th grade English Lit teacher)... fiction is the heart of life, it is not a slice of life. -------------------- The last enemy to be destroyed is death-- First Corinthians, Chapter 15, Verse 26 The epitaph of James and Lily Potter |
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