Muggles and Wizards and their environmental interests |
 Mar 18 2009, 05:31 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man  Posts: 12,176 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape  |
QUOTE 'What sort of objects are Portkeys?' said Harry curiously. 'Well, they can be anything,' said Mr Weasley. 'Unobtrusive things, obviously, so Muggles don't go picking them up and playing with them ... stuff they'll just think is litter ...' This is how Arthur Weasley explains to Harry what a Portkey is. In just a few words he not only describes a Portkey but, reveals two major clues to a further difference, or perceived difference, between Wizards and Muggles; Muggles dont care as much about the environment as Wizards do. Obviously. Mr Weasley says "obviously" as though it's plain to Harry (and us) that there's a difference. Portkeys are stuff Muggles will think is litter so they dont go picking it up. This would imply that Wizards think Muggles do not pick up litter, which infers that Wizards do. Is this just an example of prejudice, or an indication that Wizards care more about the environment? After all, when do we actually see Wizards going around cleaning up litter from the countryside? Yet maybe this is for us to conclude that they do, just as we dont see Harry brush his teeth but we're to take it that he does, and doesnt always rush straight from breakfast to Quidditch without flossing. Where then does Arthur get his ideas that Muggles care less about the environment? First, there's the whole transportation issue. We do see trains in common with both worlds but, the majority of Muggles do not use public transportation whereas the majority of Wizards do not use automobiles. They apparate, or fly on broomsticks, or use the Floo Network, in the past families used flying carpets. None of these create any pollution, dont require oil drilling, dont cause countryside to be pushed aside to build roads. Muggles use a lot of ekeltricity. They have a lot of appliances, whereas wizards do not. Sure, this is mainly due to the fact that magic prevents appliances from functioning but, nevertheless the fact remains that they do not buy such appliances, meaning that no electricity has to be generated and no plastics are manufactured. If the Weasleys are anything to go by, Wizards dont use money too often. We dont see them buying burgers or packaged foods. Molly cooks or conjures food in the kitchen, in fact the kitchen would almost seem to be the focal point of the Burrow, so again there are no plastics to be manufactured, and no chemicals or pesticides involved in the food production. So Arthur was right to punctuate his sentence with his "obviously" remark, obviously being a Muggle means that you dont care so much about the environment. But, the Ministry has cars. The Dursleys also appreciate their food and Petunia can often be found in the kitchen. Things are not always as obvious as they might at first appear. Is Arthur Weasley correct in his beliefs or, are there equal shades of green through the Wizarding and Muggle worlds? --------------------   I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan |
 |
  
 
|
|
Mar 22 2009, 12:57 AM
Post
#2
|
|
Conductor for the Knight Bus Posts: 1,622 Joined: 8:30am May 25, 2005  |
This is an interesting question, and I've been considering it for a couple of days. I don't see a great deal of evidence in the books to indicate how most wizards feel about environmental concerns, so I'm just making my best guess based, not on direct evidence, but on my understanding of the characters in the books.
It's true that wizards use a lot less (non-magical) energy and create less waste than Muggles. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that wizards are more concerned or conscientious about such matters. Wizards think and behave much like Muggles in many ways. My guess is that many wizards, like many Muggles, don't give the environment a great deal of thought. The wizards are simply easier on the environment because that's the nature of magic. I do think that some of our favourite wizards would be more attuned to environmental concerns than the average person; Hermione, Dumbledore, and Hagrid, for instance, and Arthur as well. Arthur's character, as well as the quote above, give me the impression that Arthur is a man who is conscientious about litter and perhaps other environmental issues. He can see that Muggles use more resources and make more mess than wizards, so perhaps he concludes that Muggles are less careful about such things. Maybe he is giving wizards in general more credit than they deserve, assuming that most feel as he does when in reality, they simply litter less because magic makes it easier not to. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 22 2009, 07:09 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Stocking Snitches at Quality Quidditch Supplies  Posts: 682 Joined: 6:54pm August 3, 2008 Location: New York, NY |
QUOTE(Moose_Starr @ Mar 18 2009, 06:31 PM)  QUOTE 'What sort of objects are Portkeys?' said Harry curiously. 'Well, they can be anything,' said Mr Weasley. 'Unobtrusive things, obviously, so Muggles don't go picking them up and playing with them ... stuff they'll just think is litter ...' This is how Arthur Weasley explains to Harry what a Portkey is. In just a few words he not only describes a Portkey but, reveals two major clues to a further difference, or perceived difference, between Wizards and Muggles; Muggles dont care as much about the environment as Wizards do. Obviously. Mr Weasley says "obviously" as though it's plain to Harry (and us) that there's a difference. Portkeys are stuff Muggles will think is litter so they dont go picking it up. This would imply that Wizards think Muggles do not pick up litter, which infers that Wizards do. Is this just an example of prejudice, or an indication that Wizards care more about the environment? After all, when do we actually see Wizards going around cleaning up litter from the countryside? Yet maybe this is for us to conclude that they do, just as we dont see Harry brush his teeth but we're to take it that he does, and doesnt always rush straight from breakfast to Quidditch without flossing. I don't think Arthur meant "obviously, they won't pick up manky boots." I think he meant, "obviously, the Portkey has to be an unobtrusive object." As in, obviously it cannot be a gold coin, or a precious gem, or a Rolex watch. He said, "Unobtrusive things, obviously, so Muggles don't go picking them up..." I think the word "obviously" was directed at the "unobtrusive stuff" part of the sentence, not the "picking stuff up" part. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 29 2009, 09:03 AM
Post
#4
|
|
Cauldron Bottom Measurer Posts: 115 Joined: 11:52am January 31, 2009 Location: Sandston Va |
I don't see anything in his statement that is anti-muggle. In a field a single old boot would attract little attention. That is just common sence. The Wizard world seems almost stoped in time where they left the muggle world. Waste in those times was minimal compared to what the muggle world of later and today thats a fact. That is not something against muggles.
You don't put a gold watch in a clear glass case and expect it not to be picked up by someone. |
|
|
|
|
Mar 29 2009, 10:23 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 6 Joined: 8:54am March 16, 2009 |
QUOTE I don't think Arthur meant "obviously, they won't pick up manky boots." I think he meant, "obviously, the Portkey has to be an unobtrusive object." As in, obviously it cannot be a gold coin, or a precious gem, or a Rolex watch. He said, "Unobtrusive things, obviously, so Muggles don't go picking them up..." I think the word "obviously" was directed at the "unobtrusive stuff" part of the sentence, not the "picking stuff up" part. I think you are right. Obviously refers to unobtrusive stuff. Anyway, except this let's talk about the environmental interests. I don't think wizards use all these eco-friendly stuff like broomsticks and apparation for the good of the environment. It is just that magic can make something fly so they do it. The can apparate which is vey convenient, so they do it. I was thinking that if they care a lot about the environmnet wouldn't they think that maybe a muggle that cares too would pick up something that they think it's rubbish? I mean you go to a forest or a hill, everything is clean and beautiful but our of nowhere there is one small thing (these were the places that the portekeys for the Quidditch World Cup were, right?) . Why don't pick it up and throw it? Even someone not so eco-friendly would do that. In my opinion they are very similar to most muggles in that matter.... This post has been edited by the_mad_person: Mar 29 2009, 10:26 AM -------------------- "Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!"
(How hard is to say - Kiss me, you foul!) |
|
|
|
|
Mar 29 2009, 11:05 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man Posts: 12,176 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
QUOTE(horas1 @ Mar 29 2009, 12:03 PM) I don't see anything in his statement that is anti-muggle. I didnt indicate that Arthur says anything anti-Muggle. Arthur loves Muggles & all the muggle things, he'd be one of the last people to accuse of being anti-Muggle. QUOTE You don't put a gold watch in a clear glass case and expect it not to be picked up by someone. True. Anyone, wizard or muggle, would pick up an object of value. Mundungus is notorious for *aquiring* valuable objects. But, Arthur infers (or at least to me he does) that the Portkeys are old things so Muggles dont just go picking them up ... presumably because if they did, they'd be wisked away just like a wizard is. But, if a random wizard who was not intended to take the Portkey picked it up, he too would be transported. So, why did Arthur not simply say that Portkeys have to be unobtrusive so as no one picks them up & plays with them? -------------------- I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J. When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan |
|
|
|
|
Mar 29 2009, 11:56 AM
Post
#7
|
|
Galleries Official Grape-peeler  Posts: 5,564 Joined: 10:36am April 5, 2007 Location: Trying to sneak into Leavesden studios.  |
QUOTE(Moose_Starr @ Mar 29 2009, 04:05 PM) QUOTE(horas1 @ Mar 29 2009, 12:03 PM) I don't see anything in his statement that is anti-muggle. I didnt indicate that Arthur says anything anti-Muggle. Arthur loves Muggles & all the muggle things, he'd be one of the last people to accuse of being anti-Muggle. QUOTE You don't put a gold watch in a clear glass case and expect it not to be picked up by someone. True. Anyone, wizard or muggle, would pick up an object of value. Mundungus is notorious for *aquiring* valuable objects. But, Arthur infers (or at least to me he does) that the Portkeys are old things so Muggles dont just go picking them up ... presumably because if they did, they'd be wisked away just like a wizard is. But, if a random wizard who was not intended to take the Portkey picked it up, he too would be transported. So, why did Arthur not simply say that Portkeys have to be unobtrusive so as no one picks them up & plays with them?I always assumed that the positioning of the boot Portkey at the beginning of GoF was for a number of reasons. One that it had to be in a central place for all the wizarding families in the region around Ottery St. Catchpole like the Weasleys and the Diggorys, and two that it be quite far out from the nearest town to minimise the danger of it being collected by Muggle rubbish collection services (e.g a bin lorry), and three to keep it away from prying Muggle eyes and hands. How did Arthur know that the Portkey was an old boot in the first place? Did the Ministry send him a letter in the weeks building up to the World Cup? I agree with Moose_Starr that Arthur was in no way against Muggles and their activities, except perhaps the Dursleys due to their treatment of Harry. Like in GoF where even after the shambles of using the Floo Network to collect to 4 Privet Drive he was still interested in their electric fire and television, and when Fred and George caused Dudley to eat the Ton-Tongue Toffee he chastised them for doing so. --------------------  |
|
|
|
|
Mar 29 2009, 12:10 PM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man Posts: 12,176 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
(Doh ... I just deleted my post) Moony I agree with you except maybe about the Weasleys at the Dursleys house, because the Twins say they dont pick on Dudders because he's a Muggle but, because he's a bully to Harry.
Arthur disproves of Uncle Vernon's treatment of Harry, not because he's a Muggle but, because he's unkind to Harry. Arthur's probably the biggest Muggle fan out there which is one of the reasons why his remark jumped out at me. -------------------- I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J. When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan |
|
|
|
|
Jun 10 2009, 11:53 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Just Through the Brick Wall Posts: 3 Joined: 10:16pm May 29, 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia |
I dont think there is any basis for thinking that muggles are less environmentally friendly than wizards/witches. w/w's dont use broomsticks which create minimal pollution because they are considering the environment, i would think they do it because its easier. dont we used plastic packaged meals, because they are easier to use than creating a whole new meal? dont we drive cars because its quicker and easier than walking? in the same way wizards use their magic to make things easier because they can.
QUOTE "We do see trains in common with both worlds but, the majority of Muggles do not use public transportation whereas the majority of Wizards do not use automobiles." the majority of muggles dont use public transport? are we living in the same world...? |
|
|
|
|
Jun 19 2009, 03:20 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man Posts: 12,176 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
QUOTE(voldyrules @ Jun 11 2009, 02:53 AM) QUOTE "We do see trains in common with both worlds but, the majority of Muggles do not use public transportation whereas the majority of Wizards do not use automobiles." the majority of muggles dont use public transport? are we living in the same world...? So I totally dont want to get into an argument here but, without having hard facts to back up my belief, in my opinion I would say that the majority of muggles do not use public transportation and, the majority of wizards do not drive around in cars. The reasoning and motives behind wizards choosing to use magical transportation most likely is practical ... it's faster, safer and more convenient. But, muggles tend to own at least one car per family, and usually more than just one vehicle. Again, it may be for practical reasons like convenience and speed, it's easier to drive to work in a car than find a bus or a train that leaves anywhere near the time or place you want to leave and actually arrive anyplace near the desired destination. It may be only by accident and not by design but, wizards and their lifestyle would seem to be more more environmentally friendly. -------------------- I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J. When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan |
|
|
|
