The Natural World, Symbolism in the environment |
 May 31 2009, 05:09 AM
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#1
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One Half of the DDD  Posts: 8,476 Joined: 5:31pm August 30, 2006 Location: Siriusly Dreaming Somewhere   |
We see many different types of environment in The Two Towers and LotR in general: the "dark and tangled forests" of Fanghorn; the barren desert and stinking marshes; sunny glades and hollows of cool ferns; across stony mountains and through green valleys. Tolkein goes to great lengths to describe the landscape, how do you think he uses environment to reflect the story? What symbolims do you see in the environment?
--------------------  November's book is The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" |
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Jun 12 2009, 04:42 PM
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Waiting for Wednesdays  Posts: 9,150 Joined: 7:57am January 28, 2005 Location: Hiding from Hurricanes  |
One of the things that first pulled me into the love of literature were the symbolic gestures of a seasoned writer. One of the reasons I adore the HP series as a piece of literature is because of the use of symbolism.
The symbols often give a deeper meaning to the canon, enriching the meaning to allow for subtle nuances to emerge. The symbol water is the first come to mind. Water - Gandalf and Aragorn are saved from death after a fall when they land in bodies of water. When Arwen races to Rivendell on horseback with a badly injured Frodo, she escapes the pursuing ringwraiths when they are flooded by water. Also, Isengard loses power when it's flooded. The elves also escape over a body of water and when Boromir dies he is set on a funeral pyre and is allowed to float down a river. Water is a way to rescue the "good guy" so to speak. It's ability to cleanse and stop evil seems to be an allusion of the Christian belief of Baptism as a way to cleanse. LOTR is filled with many symbols that give the story a deeper meaning. -------------------- |
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Jun 14 2009, 10:46 AM
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#3
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Leaky's Official Donut Maker and Mosquito Man  Posts: 11,140 Joined: 10:51am August 25, 2005 Location: Playing kal-toh with Professor Snape |
The most notable thing to me in LOTR are the trees. Thet feature extensively in the books, as characters and as forests with personalities. For the most part, trees symbolize Good (as opposed to Evil), & the *good guys* have an understanding of or love for trees, and respect them. Trees can also be representative of a people or place.
Some of the trees are not symbolic of good, although these are in the minority. But, they dont represent or stand with the bad guys, either. They're just trees that have their own agenda. The *bad guys* are depicted with no respect for trees, they devastate trees in order to further their own evil ends, they cut down trees with no respect or concern for the environment. It is said that JRRT wrote real life in his books, he uses symbolism & imagery to represent what was happening in the real world, & two of his big interests were religion and the environment. Trees have a lot of religious symbolism, & the fact that the *good guys* respect & love the trees, & we even see things from the trees points of view at times reflects JRRT's interest in the environment. --------------------   I'm 1 of the 99.99% W.L.Y.J.  When I sleep I dream, and when I dream I can rise above the walls Remember Cameron Duncan Thanks Jeff! |
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Jun 14 2009, 01:04 PM
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#4
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Waiting for Wednesdays Posts: 9,150 Joined: 7:57am January 28, 2005 Location: Hiding from Hurricanes |
QUOTE(Moose_Starr @ Jun 14 2009, 10:46 AM)  The most notable thing to me in LOTR are the trees. Thet feature extensively in the books, as characters and as forests with personalities. For the most part, trees symbolize Good (as opposed to Evil), & the *good guys* have an understanding of or love for trees, and respect them. Trees can also be representative of a people or place. Some of the trees are not symbolic of good, although these are in the minority. But, they dont represent or stand with the bad guys, either. They're just trees that have their own agenda. The *bad guys* are depicted with no respect for trees, they devastate trees in order to further their own evil ends, they cut down trees with no respect or concern for the environment. It is said that JRRT wrote real life in his books, he uses symbolism & imagery to represent what was happening in the real world, & two of his big interests were religion and the environment. Trees have a lot of religious symbolism, & the fact that the *good guys* respect & love the trees, & we even see things from the trees points of view at times reflects JRRT's interest in the environment. I love the trees in LOTR. I especially love the Ents. The Ents were created by Eru Ilúvatar as a protector to the forest. The Ents, while not really trees, they are tree-like creatures that live in the forest to protect it from the Dwarves or any other being that would kill the trees. When the Ents become angry at Saruman, for cutting down trees, they meet an Entmoot to discuss their options. This meeting takes three days (which is pretty fast for an Ent) but they proceed to destroy Isengard. The interesting things about the Ents is that they are wise. Like their tree counterparts, they have lived long enough to see the cycles of man in Middle Earth. They don't rush to a decision, instead they slowly weigh their options looking at their wisdom from past events to decide what to do. The trees and the ents represent widsom. In a Harry Potter related note, the Centaurs remind me of the Ents. The Centaurs gaurd the forest, and while the creature is a mythological creature, the Centaurs have a similar roll in Rowling's forest as do the Ents in Tolkeins. Centaurs are wise, they read the signs and they don't come to their decision lightly. They two creatures share many of the same characteristics. -------------------- |
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Jun 17 2009, 05:03 PM
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#5
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Knight MacMod The Great Protecting The Memory Of Sense Posts: 2,430 Joined: 7:17pm February 17, 2006 Location: 3rd door on the left, Hogsmeade  |
QUOTE(DorisTLC @ Jun 14 2009, 11:04 AM) QUOTE(Moose_Starr @ Jun 14 2009, 10:46 AM) The most notable thing to me in LOTR are the trees. Thet feature extensively in the books, as characters and as forests with personalities. For the most part, trees symbolize Good (as opposed to Evil), & the *good guys* have an understanding of or love for trees, and respect them. Trees can also be representative of a people or place. I love the trees in LOTR. Some of the trees are not symbolic of good, although these are in the minority. But, they dont represent or stand with the bad guys, either. They're just trees that have their own agenda. The *bad guys* are depicted with no respect for trees, they devastate trees in order to further their own evil ends, they cut down trees with no respect or concern for the environment. It is said that JRRT wrote real life in his books, he uses symbolism & imagery to represent what was happening in the real world, & two of his big interests were religion and the environment. Trees have a lot of religious symbolism, & the fact that the *good guys* respect & love the trees, & we even see things from the trees points of view at times reflects JRRT's interest in the environment. I especially love the Ents. The Ents were created by Eru Ilúvatar as a protector to the forest. The Ents, while not really trees, they are tree-like creatures that live in the forest to protect it from the Dwarves or any other being that would kill the trees. When the Ents become angry at Saruman, for cutting down trees, they meet an Entmoot to discuss their options. This meeting takes three days (which is pretty fast for an Ent) but they proceed to destroy Isengard. The interesting things about the Ents is that they are wise. Like their tree counterparts, they have lived long enough to see the cycles of man in Middle Earth. They don't rush to a decision, instead they slowly weigh their options looking at their wisdom from past events to decide what to do. The trees and the ents represent widsom. In a Harry Potter related note, the Centaurs remind me of the Ents. The Centaurs gaurd the forest, and while the creature is a mythological creature, the Centaurs have a similar roll in Rowling's forest as do the Ents in Tolkeins. Centaurs are wise, they read the signs and they don't come to their decision lightly. They two creatures share many of the same characteristics. e Centa --------------------  click the Q "And, if there is need to speak in brief summary of this power, we shall find that none of the things which are done with intelligence take place without the help of speech, but that in all our actions as well as in all our thoughts speech is our guide, . . ." Isocrates, Antidosis |
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Jun 18 2009, 09:26 PM
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Flesh-Eating-Slug Catcher  Posts: 176 Joined: 11:03am January 21, 2006 Location: sampling the shoofly and whoopie pies |
I love Tolkein's description of the environment as the characters come across each type of it. His descriptions allow us to sense what they must be seeing with out overly dwelling on each rock and stone. Speaking of which, let us not forget the caves and those that dwelled within their cool or hot confines. The Goblins and Trolls and Dragons, the badies of the underworld, living amidst hoarded and rotten things, keeping unkept, smelly places. There too dwelt the Dwarf, but in wonderous and beautifully carved halls and chambers.
I too love the trees, and it's interesting that their characteristics seem to mirror the station of those that lived within. Does it seem that more highly esteemed the people of the wood, the more highly they esteemed the forest they inhabited? Lorien was different from Mirkwood, the Old Forest, or Fanghorn. The depth and duration of the green of the wood in Lorien mirrored the length of duration of the effect of a ring of power. -------------------- "That's the thing about people; they're so darned human." D.S. Bowman
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Jun 20 2009, 01:43 PM
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#7
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Sundae-Nut-Chopper at Florean Fortescue's Posts: 921 Joined: 10:41pm March 2, 2007 Location: Entering the Ministry of Magic |
One of the most appealing elements of LOTR to me is also the environmental aspect. I also loved the Ents and the depiction as the forest a 'alive' in a way that we don't generally think of forests.
The love of nature is everywhere in the books, and the earmarks of the villains of LOTR are their obsession with controlling nature and their lack of respect for nature. The hobbits are gardeners and love the land and things that grow. The elves seem 'bound' to the forces of nature - almost physically - as if it is a part of their soul somehow. The most peaceful creatures of Middle-earth are the races that respect nature and live in harmony with it. In fact, I believe that the dwarfs are actually disliked by the elves mostly because they seem to have no respect for the earth - that they tend to use the earth as merely a means to achieve their ends. Man seems to fall in the middle ground. The race of Man seems to be too warlike and too disconnected from nature in many respects in Tolkein's books. I think that Tolkien tries to depict this in psychological terms, subtly, as well. Those individuals and races with the most wisdom are those who have made a peace with their environment - and peace with the environment and respect for the environment translates into peace among all the creatures of the Middle-earth. Its a very powerful and socially conscious underlying message that pervades the LOTR. But its a message that also seems to be overlooked by many who become involved with the drama of the struggle going on between the creatures of Middle-earth. Its easy for this aspect to be pushed to the background because it isn't the most dynamic or dramatic aspect of Tolkien's work. But Tolkien's commentary on man's relationship with nature is one of the work's most profound aspects, IMO. This post has been edited by chloe squibbulus: Jun 20 2009, 01:47 PM -------------------- "I would like to say a few words. Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak! And now before we go to bed, let us sing the school song! Everyone pick their favorite tune...and off we go!" Dumbledore; Sorcerer's Stone. |
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Jun 23 2009, 01:29 PM
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#8
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Smart Cookie  Posts: 3,108 Joined: 1:26am September 30, 2006 Location: Somewhere in time and space |
LotR seems to reflect Rousseau's "Back to Nature" idea. And as a professor of mine likes to say, the nature has perfected the most sophisticated technology on Earth, and we need to learn from that if we want to reach for perfection too. So, I really like it and it makes sense to me that the wisest creatures in LotR are also those who understand the nature around them best, because they know where they can gather most knowledge and wisdom from.
I find that forests represent not only wisdom, but also magic too, whether it be the magic of elves living within it or the forest itself like Fanghorn. And many people fear it, because they don't know what it is, but those who possess the knowledge (like elves and Ents or even Hobbits) don't find it frightening and even maybe not so much "magic", if that makes sense. So, I kind of see forests (or entering a forest) a kind of trial for one's mind and senses. I mean, like, when Legolas, Aragorn and Gimli enter Fanghorn, they don't know what or who they are going to meet, and it's worst for Gimli, because he doesn't have the knowledge of woods; and they actually meet Gandalf in there, but they first need to recognise him (though I suppose he kinda shows himself to them). This post has been edited by Wandguardnoodle: Jun 23 2009, 01:30 PM -------------------- I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine. (P&P)
Images from hallonpaj, phistolemon_, alata_elentari @LJ.   |
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